Rise (and Leave) as One: Twins Trade Louis Varland, Ty France to Toronto Blue Jays

[madtowntwin]

4 hours ago, Glorybound said:

If you are a Twins player and didn’t get traded you should be ashamed of yourself.

How much scrambling in the Twin's Bullpen can their be now??

[madtowntwin]

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

How quickly Paddack is forgotten. 

The Sheriff is gone as are all the deputies!!

[madtowntwin]

1 hour ago, CRF said:

How the hell is Vazquez still here after this blood bath?

He was in the bathroom stall and Buxton was locked in the training room!!

[silverslugger]

2 hours ago, CRF said:

How the hell is Vazquez still here after this blood bath?

I think this says way more about Vazquez the player and what the rest of MLB thinks of him compared to what the Twins think of him than you ever realized.

[tony&rodney]

27 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

This organization was in really rough shape. They spent two years doing nothing and now there's finally some sort of vision. 

Is there though? As you know, I was/am a fan of the Twins making changes. The team is slow, plays poor defense, does not run the bases well, and they don't hit despite having too many DH only bats. They did not fix any of those issues. Tait is a possibility 3 years from now. A few others are possible corner outfielders/DH types. They added a ton of pitchers but stripped the bullpen of 4 guys with years left. I am not opposed to trading any player but the return needs to be a guy. That guy should be someone who projects to start, play defense, and be athletic. Some of the pitchers added have some promise. The position side is weak. We are still going to depend on guys you mentioned: Keaschall, EmRod, Jenkins with health from Buck and coming out parties from Lewis and Lee. I don't see a single position player that was added as the type of player I would target. Thus, I'm suggesting the rebuild hasn't started but will this November.

[kenneth frank]

This is a very sad day for the MN Twins. I would not be very proud to have had a hand in this dismantling 

[bjorks]

If they were going to go all in, this is maybe my favorite move. Rojas is/could be an exceptional #2 or a dominant reliever. He has rocketed up their system and there’s room still. I would guess his profile at this age is much better than what Mr. Varland’s was. 
Rodan could be a slightly better version of the best version of Jake Cave we hardly knew ye…

I have visions of Varland and France storming into Falvey’s office and saying “F-it, we want out, too!” And threatening to kick his a$$ if he left them here. 
 

I think Rojas has a higher ceiling/floor than Abel. #Preposterous 

[NYCTK]

15 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Is there though? As you know, I was/am a fan of the Twins making changes. The team is slow, plays poor defense, does not run the bases well, and they don't hit despite having too many DH only bats. They did not fix any of those issues. Tait is a possibility 3 years from now. A few others are possible corner outfielders/DH types. They added a ton of pitchers but stripped the bullpen of 4 guys with years left. I am not opposed to trading any player but the return needs to be a guy. That guy should be someone who projects to start, play defense, and be athletic. Some of the pitchers added have some promise. The position side is weak. We are still going to depend on guys you mentioned: Keaschall, EmRod, Jenkins with health from Buck and coming out parties from Lewis and Lee. I don't see a single position player that was added as the type of player I would target. Thus, I'm suggesting the rebuild hasn't started but will this November.

Fair. I'm being presumptive yet optimistic. 

Just the fact that they're doing something. I really hated this roster and didn't see them competing in '26 and I'm glad they seemingly came to the same conclusion. I just refuse to be disappointed by losing relief pitchers in two years from now. 

I'm underwhelmed by the Duran return and think there's plenty of argument that he played that hand poorly but otherwise I'm really quite satisfied with the returns. Maybe he should have just held onto Duran and tried again in the offseason. Maybe something else would have budged with a different team. But they clearly got impatient and had a lot of irons in the fire so wanted to keep the calls moving. 

[Ghost of Kirby Puckett]

16 minutes ago, bjorks said:

If they were going to go all in, this is maybe my favorite move. Rojas is/could be an exceptional #2 or a dominant reliever. He has rocketed up their system and there’s room still. I would guess his profile at this age is much better than what Mr. Varland’s was. 
Rodan could be a slightly better version of the best version of Jake Cave we hardly knew ye…

I have visions of Varland and France storming into Falvey’s office and saying “F-it, we want out, too!” And threatening to kick his a$$ if he left them here. 
 

I think Rojas has a higher ceiling/floor than Abel. #Preposterous 

I like Rojas quite a bit. But he needs to gobble innings the remainder of this season. Maybe AFL since he missed first couple months with abdominal injury. And keep stretching it out next year, like get to 150ish innings and the curve he is on, he'll be ready at that point imo. And Gallagher is a sleeper for me. Lots to like with him. Gives me Ryan vibes. Abel and Bradley, we shall see. I like Abel better out of the two.

[tony&rodney]

38 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Fair. I'm being presumptive yet optimistic. 

Just the fact that they're doing something. I really hated this roster and didn't see them competing in '26 and I'm glad they seemingly came to the same conclusion. I just refuse to be disappointed by losing relief pitchers in two years from now. 

I'm underwhelmed by the Duran return and think there's plenty of argument that he played that hand poorly but otherwise I'm really quite satisfied with the returns. Maybe he should have just held onto Duran and tried again in the offseason. Maybe something else would have budged with a different team. But they clearly got impatient and had a lot of irons in the fire so wanted to keep the calls moving. 

Yah but .... one 18 year old catching prospect in a ball to help the position side? I'm not enamored (said too many times) of slow corner outfielders. I want a Jarren Duran type player in the corner. Turn anything in the air into an out and hit for extra bases but steal second base on the singles, all the while playing all out. I would trade Joe Ryan for that. No more DH guys.

[tony&rodney]

29 minutes ago, Ghost of Kirby Puckett said:

I like Rojas quite a bit. But he needs to gobble innings the remainder of this season. Maybe AFL since he missed first couple months with abdominal injury. And keep stretching it out next year, like get to 150ish innings and the curve he is on, he'll be ready at that point imo. And Gallagher is a sleeper for me. Lots to like with him. Gives me Ryan vibes. Abel and Bradley, we shall see. I like Abel better out of the two.

Great. We got pitchers. Who is going to field the ball if they only strike out 33% of the hitters? How are the Twins going to score runs? But, yes the pitchers look promising. That is true.

[Loops]

I feel bad for the Twins who did NOT get traded. They have nothing to play for.

[h2oface]

Trading Varland? These people running this trade show are cowards. We need some ‘splainin’. 

[Bodie]

12 hours ago, Maybe Next Year said:

Unbelievable! Just when I though this organization couldn't get any more stupid, they trade Varland, Jax, Columbe,What  Stewart and Duran. Top it off with Castro. Falvey is a complete incompetent idiot! I understand France, Bader and Correa but I don't understand how in the hell you trade 5 pitchers out of your bullpen. 

What's amazing is that an average (and falling) bullpen had so many guys others are interested on!

[Bodie]

7 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Is there though? As you know, I was/am a fan of the Twins making changes. The team is slow, plays poor defense, does not run the bases well, and they don't hit despite having too many DH only bats. They did not fix any of those issues. Tait is a possibility 3 years from now. A few others are possible corner outfielders/DH types. They added a ton of pitchers but stripped the bullpen of 4 guys with years left. I am not opposed to trading any player but the return needs to be a guy. That guy should be someone who projects to start, play defense, and be athletic. Some of the pitchers added have some promise. The position side is weak. We are still going to depend on guys you mentioned: Keaschall, EmRod, Jenkins with health from Buck and coming out parties from Lewis and Lee. I don't see a single position player that was added as the type of player I would target. Thus, I'm suggesting the rebuild hasn't started but will this November.

Let's be honest...

At this point in Falvey's tenure why in God's name would you want him picking new bats and gloves????

This is a guy who was happy signing Joey Gallo!  Who thought  a "good" Twins team for this season included an infield with Julien and Miranda.

If we have to put up with Falvey's overall incompetence, at least keep him acquiring pitching as he has a couple of positives as opposed to his signing of position players where there have been about 3 non-negatives in his career!

[Doctor Gast]

Falvey must have misread the memo by giving away some of those who should have stayed & keeping some of the players that should have been traded. Of all the idiotic transactions that Falvey has ever done (which is most), Varland's trade made the least sense. The last half of the Calvin Griffin era & the last 2 years of Falvey were pretty bad , But the last 2 days have been by far the darkest of Twins' history. It's hard to believe that the Twins would be able to give tickets away.

[Ghost of Kirby Puckett]

7 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Great. We got pitchers. Who is going to field the ball if they only strike out 33% of the hitters? How are the Twins going to score runs? But, yes the pitchers look promising. That is true.

I covered that in another post, at GREAT length. 

[Doctor Wu]

13 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

I need to see a list of the players we’re getting back.

And I want to see a list of who the Twins will have on their roster tomorrow!

[Doctor Wu]

13 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

I'm trying to devils-advocate a reason why Varland needed to be traded, and I can't come up with anything.

He's closer to the kind of player you acquire in a fire sale, not sell.  He's pre-arb next year!

The Stewart trade was weird.  This one is just sad

Trading Varland was the biggest surprise of all the moves they bad. And you are right; what possible reason did the Twins have for trading him?  A totally puzzling move. 

[Doctor Wu]

10 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Nobody wanted Wallner or Larnach? Oof. 

not a surprise at all for those two. 

[Bodie]

3 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

not a surprise at all for those two. 

Over a K per game.  "Tools" that aren't actually tools (i.e. elite arm strength, but so slow in the delivery that his arm grades out among the worst in baseball,  for an example) sounds like the Falvey dream player!

[HrbieFan]

14 hours ago, Danchat said:

Good luck to Sands and Topa figuring out how to pitch in high leverage situations the next two months!

Perhaps this is the point where they transition their mediocre AA/AAA starting pitching prospects into becoming relievers and are able to piece together a bullpen next year out of young cheap arms? That's the most positive take I can pull out of what's left of this group.

Maybe they just don't believe in Varland long term? Because if they did, he'd still be a super valuable trade chip in 2/3 years time.

Those mediocre starters are in our rotation already! Just grab the Saints roster for the next Twinks game. 

[Doctor Gast]

10 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Is there though? As you know, I was/am a fan of the Twins making changes. The team is slow, plays poor defense, does not run the bases well, and they don't hit despite having too many DH only bats. They did not fix any of those issues. Tait is a possibility 3 years from now. A few others are possible corner outfielders/DH types. They added a ton of pitchers but stripped the bullpen of 4 guys with years left. I am not opposed to trading any player but the return needs to be a guy. That guy should be someone who projects to start, play defense, and be athletic. Some of the pitchers added have some promise. The position side is weak. We are still going to depend on guys you mentioned: Keaschall, EmRod, Jenkins with health from Buck and coming out parties from Lewis and Lee. I don't see a single position player that was added as the type of player I would target. Thus, I'm suggesting the rebuild hasn't started but will this November.

Agreed, the rebuild hasn't started because we didn't get anyone of value, Falvey just tore down. We had plenty of opportunities with trading either Duran or Jax to get great young players that helped to shore up our fragile rotation & catching, now & well into the future. Falvey couldn't be bothered to get someone of value (something he's terrible at), because his laser-focused objective was to tear down.

What is the next step this next offseason? Trade off Lopez, Ober & Ryan because our window is slammed shut for years to come? Trade off Wallner & Larnach to jump start a new brand (doubt that will happen because it makes too much sense)? Trade off Jeffers because we can't afford his Boras extension (also doubt it because it makes too much sense)? More than likely, they'll make Jeffers their primary catcher & give him an outlandish extension (that's what Falvey does too well, unfortunately). Give their crown jewel Royce Lewis a Boras extension (don't get me wrong, I really like both Lewis & Jeffers).

What's the outlook? Years of muddling in the cellar of a pitiful AL Central even after Falvey is long gone.

[P Meyer]

12 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

We are all flailing and guessing at this point. The team is in total disarray.

1. I don't believe for 1 second that there is an imminent buyer. Put yourself there .... would you want a total sell-off before you buy or would you prefer to direct player movement.

2. The team still has the same exact problems as it did a week ago. The Twins are slow, play poor defense, and can't hit. Now we added the problem of having a shortage of MLB quality bullpen arms.

3. Based purely on how things went it seems probable that the Twins were negotiating so fiercely with Houston that they forgot about trading Vazquez, Ryan, and Lopez. 

4. Nobody wanted Wallner or Larnach? Oof. 

This offseason I hope team speed, defense, and hitting is addressed. I have no idea how.

My guess is the biggest issue with the sale is the debt owed, and this is the Polhads being aggressive trying to fix that. The only thing they are willing to sacrifice is the product on the field.

[Jeff K]

13 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

We are all flailing and guessing at this point. The team is in total disarray.

1. I don't believe for 1 second that there is an imminent buyer. Put yourself there .... would you want a total sell-off before you buy or would you prefer to direct player movement.

2. The team still has the same exact problems as it did a week ago. The Twins are slow, play poor defense, and can't hit. Now we added the problem of having a shortage of MLB quality bullpen arms.

3. Based purely on how things went it seems probable that the Twins were negotiating so fiercely with Houston that they forgot about trading Vazquez, Ryan, and Lopez. 

4. Nobody wanted Wallner or Larnach? Oof. 

This offseason I hope team speed, defense, and hitting is addressed. I have no idea how.

Darn it, I don't want to agree with you on point #1.  And yet...you may be right.

[twinstalker]

19 hours ago, twinstalker said:

Rojas is the guy here, though he's far away.  Roden should be fine by next year but he's not the main piece.

I'll correct myself here.  I'd looked up Rojas last week as a guy to possibly draft in one of my league.  I probably looked up six complex/low A guys with him.  I remember him being good, but I didn't remember that he was at AA (maybe now AAA).

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, twinstalker said:

I'll correct myself here.  I'd looked up Rojas last week as a guy to possibly draft in one of my league.  I probably looked up six complex/low A guys with him.  I remember him being good, but I didn't remember that he was at AA (maybe now AAA).

He is the exact type of pitcher the Twins love, 4 starts 18 innings in AA and never has pitched more than 84 innings. 

[Major League Ready]

In looking at Roden's baseball reference page I noticed the Jays played him a couple of times in CF and he played a few Milb games in center.  Not enough to suggest he is a CF but it makes me think he must be a decent fielder.  Anyone seen a scouting report on his defense?   I saw a scouting report that said he ranked in the 95th percentile for contact but it did not say much about his defense.

BTW ... His K rate in AAA this year is 9% with an 11% walk rate.

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

In looking at Roden's baseball reference page I noticed the Jays played him a couple of times in CF and he played a few Milb games in center.  Not enough to suggest he is a CF but it makes me think he must be a decent fielder.  Anyone seen a scouting report on his defense?   I saw a scouting report that said he ranked in the 95th percentile for contact but it did not say much about his defense.

BTW ... His K rate in AAA this year is 9% with an 11% walk rate.

Only that fangraphs calls him a fifty for fielding and running. He's an interesting get.