Has Time Run Out For These Two Twins?

[Doctor Gast]

3 hours ago, Melissa said:

I agree that either or both might be good trade bait - much better than the silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players - and who have less successful track records, too.

Both were good trade bait, But again that ship has sailed. Julien has been given every opportunity & have been propped up to succeed but has failed. With the hype still connected to Julien we could still get someone of value if used with another player. I agree, I'd never say never for Julien but for him to come back he'll have to reinvent himself, both as a different hitter & 1Bman.

The deck has been stacked against Miranda. He can come back very easily as a 1Bman but not with this organization. Hopefully the next. Right now his trade stock is very low, not worth trading him.

[Peter]

Both played their last games as a twin

[Rosterman]

They are being passed in the system by other prospects. Sadly, they have little trade worth unless as a throw-in to some low-hanging eam that might believe they can get better and then become a trade chip.

At best, the Twins should be cycling either as a first baseman possibility for next season, but that is a long shot, too.

Both could return to the majors if injuries hit the Twins infield. Mainly because they are getting paid more than a non-roster guy and the Twins like to use people that they are paying.

I was taken aback when the Twins traded Steer to the Reds and kept Julien instead, although that isn't necessarily going gang-busters in Cincinnati.

[jmlease1]

Miranda is more likely to be back up with the Twins when he returns from injury; I don't think they're concerned about his playing time one way or the other, but we'll see: this administration sure likes to have as many assets as possible to draw on in case of injury, even if it means bumping along with a poor player hanging on the bottom of the active roster for weeks on end.

Julien got demoted because they want him playing and not gathering dust on the bench, i think. But he will have to really hit to get back up. He clearly lugs his struggles at the plate into the field with him at the MLB level, which is a real problem for a guy who is below average on D to begin with.

Clock is ticking on both guys, though. Brooks Lee and Keaschall are past both of them at this point, and with Castro and Lewis back, the ABs and innings are shrinking. Personally I wouldn't waste much time on Clemens, and Bride doesn't have much upside, but neither Miranda nor Julien have done enough to demand they get picked right now.

[chpettit19]

I think it's between the ears for both of them. And about swing decisions for both of them. But Miranda is more likely to get himself right in his time in St Paul.

Julien lost his approach. I know I'm an outlier here, but I've never had much of a problem with his approach. Watching 3rd strikes was a problem, but he knew what pitches he could hit and what he couldn't. He needed to fix his VBA and he made a pretty significant swing change this offseason to give him a chance against breaking balls this year. But then he started swinging much more early (10% increase in first pitch swing rate) and chasing much more (5% jump in chase rate). His swing speed was down to go with that. I don't know if that was from his swing change or him just swinging to make contact more, but it's not a good sign in general. He seems to be too in his head where he doesn't just trust himself. I think a change of scenery would do him wonders.

Miranda's success has always been about his swing decisions. When he's locked in and swinging at strikes and laying off a decent amount of the balls he's a solid hitter. When he's swinging at "everything" he struggles. Well, he started the year with a career high chase rate and career low in zone swing percentage. Not surprising he was struggling. I expect him to put up some really nice numbers in AAA because he has really good hand-eye coordination and he's going to get enough mistake pitches down there to do damage. Hopefully he's able to lock in and get his swing decisions where they need to be. If I had to bet on one of these guys being successful moving forward it'd definitely be Miranda.

I think there's a better than 50/50 chance they both see time with the Twins again at some point this year, but that's just the nature of being on the 40-man and injuries happening on major league teams. Miranda has the much better chance of sticking once he gets another chance, though.

[Parfigliano]

3 hours ago, Linus said:

I think both are in trouble but of the two Miranda has the better chance. He has to learn the strike zone which is in his control theoretically. Julien just can’t hit MLB pitching which is outside his control. Given that both are liabilities in the field and bad baserunners I’m not sure there is much point in waiting around. 

Julien used to hit MLB pitching pretty good.  That talent went away.  Maybe another team can find it.

[tony&rodney]

4 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Both were good trade bait, But again that ship has sailed. Julien has been given every opportunity & have been propped up to succeed but has failed. With the hype still connected to Julien we could still get someone of value if used with another player. I agree, I'd never say never for Julien but for him to come back he'll have to reinvent himself, both as a different hitter & 1Bman.

The deck has been stacked against Miranda. He can come back very easily as a 1Bman but not with this organization. Hopefully the next. Right now his trade stock is very low, not worth trading him.

Yes, there value was high, but that is in the past. I suggested trades of both of these guys and Lewis in two years ago, but who knows if anything could have worked out anyway. Miranda and Julien are still worth a flyer from some team .... a player who is a total long shot, which is better than nothing. No use in lamenting missed opportuities from the past. It is time to move forward.

[Western SD Fan]

Unless the Twins are in very serious playoff contention, I expect them to move Castro and France by the trade deadline provided someone will trade for them.  That may give Julien a small window of time prior to when Keaschall returns provided he can make any improvements in St. Paul.  Miranda may have the same window.  If McCusker is still punishing AAA pitching, he may be given the call-up over Miranda even though that would require a 40-man roster move.

[Danchat]

Reminds me of an article here that suggested that Julien would be a perfect candidate to be traded right after his superb rookie year, and it wasn't that well received but heck that would have looked great in hindsight. What we've seen from him the past year and a half doesn't look salvagable.

Miranda has had long enough stretches of competence the majors that I'm not ready to give up on him, but his mistakes have also been mind-numbing. Seems like staying healthy is a challenge for him too.

[arby58]

10 hours ago, Melissa said:

I agree that either or both might be good trade bait - much better than the silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players - and who have less successful track records, too.

Agree, although expecting much of anything in return (other than players similarly in need of 'a change in scenery') is Quixotic.

[darin617]

Remember when Miranda came up and hit people were calling for him to be signed to a long term extension to lock him up for multiple years.

Let them both play in St Paul and let them earn a promotion. If they don't so be it. There's no trade value for either player right now. If they don't recover this year you simply cut them  loose.

[dxpavelka]

Too many guys with too much more upside or potential for these guys to pass.  And guys like Clemens & Bride (and Gasper?) along for short term rides that might make it easier to eventually clear the way for other youngsters.  (Rodriguez, McCusker, Keaschall (and maybe Payton Eeles)when healthy)

[Linus]

11 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Julien used to hit MLB pitching pretty good.  That talent went away.  Maybe another team can find it.

Julien babip in 2023 was 373.  He hasn’t been good otherwise. 

[Doctor Wu]

19 hours ago, Road trip said:

Whatever the Twins coaches have tried hasn't worked very well.

That is assuming that the coaches have actually made suggestions or tried to help them. I honestly have no idea what was done or not done for these guys. In any case, both players have had their chances. Time to move on. 

[Aerodeliria]

I've always liked Julien's approach to hitting, but all of this tweaking seems to have gotten him screwed up, and as was said, he can't seem to put a bad at bat behind him and he drags it out onto the field. 

I'm not sure how or why it started, but Miranda started swinging at everything just like Sano. It easy to imagine him getting more disciplined, but it's equally easy to imagine him continuing along that path.

It has been dark days for both players, which makes me sad.

[sun]

If you want to play with Carlos Correa then you'd better know how to play the game. End of story.

[Jacksson]

Both will be lucky to be called up in September.  Meanwhile, they can work on becoming worthy of being on a MLB roster.