Other Universally Beloved Things Non-Ichiro Voter Finds Lacking

[RandBalls Stu]

'A better name might be the Good Enough Canyon? It’s a hole in the ground. Congratulations, you drove the family 11 hours to visit a dry swimming pool.'

Image courtesy of Flickr/Jeffrey Hayes

The legendary Ichiro Suzuki was overwhelmingly elected to Baseball’s Hall of Fame on Tuesday, nabbing all but one of the 550 votes needed to make it a unanimous decision. The lone holdout, who remains anonymous, didn’t want to discuss their vote, but did respond to Twins Daily’s request for opinions on other universally beloved, respected, and acclaimed people, places, and things. We reprint those answers in full below.

• A refreshing glass of water. “Hydration was invented by the Stanley Corporation to make you buy those giant tumblers in an assortment of eye-catching hues. Do a modicum of research. Black coffee in styrofoam cup was good enough for your granddad, it's good enough for you.”
• The Grand Canyon. “A better name might be the Good Enough Canyon? It’s a hole in the ground. Congratulations, you drove the family 11 hours to visit a dry swimming pool.”
• Tom Hanks. "Hasn’t made anything worth watching since Bosom Buddies. Got the entire series on VHS, prove me wrong."
• Puppies. "Don’t care for ‘em."
• Baby kittens. "See above. Just not my jam, man."
• Pizza. "There are too many toppings nowadays. And at the end of the day, it’s just a big piece of bread with tomato sauce and cheese. It’s a warm lunchable. How's second grade going, slugger?"
• A full and restful night’s sleep. "While you’re sleeping, I’m creating content and forming some of the worst opinions you’ll ever read in your life. Enjoy naptime, kiddo."
• Beyonce. "Mostly I just wait for the Kidz Bop kids to improve on her frankly mid body of work. Those tots really brought out the pathos and yearning in Single Ladies."
• America’s National Parks. "No A/C, no B-Dubs, no way you’re getting me to go there. Get someone else to prevent forest fires, boss. Not my problem."
• The vastness of the ocean as you stand on the shore, awestruck by the expanse and beauty of the world and your tiny place in it, yet still hopeful that one person can make a difference. “I mean, it’s water. I can get water out of a tap.”
• Baseball’s Opening Day. “It means another six months ‘til I get to take a vacation. Why would anyone feel good about that? Also it’s usually too cold unless you’re in the Sun Belt, and it’s already too hot there. Need more domes.”
• Catching a home run ball and giving it to a wide-eyed child, a memory they will have forever. “Another extension of participation trophy culture. No thanks, chief. Maybe they should have positioned themselves to make a play on the ball. Now they’ll probably become a drug fiend.”

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[BobAzar]

so, it was Reusse?

[DJL44]

This is getting way too much press. There are lots of defensible reasons NOT to vote for Ichiro. The best reason is if you have 11 players you want to vote for and they only let you vote for 10. It's perfectly acceptable to say, "Ichiro will get in without my vote, I'll vote for the other 10".

[baul0010]

21 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

This is getting way too much press. There are lots of defensible reasons NOT to vote for Ichiro. The best reason is if you have 11 players you want to vote for and they only let you vote for 10. It's perfectly acceptable to say, "Ichiro will get in without my vote, I'll vote for the other 10".

What?  The man was a wizard with the bat, a marvel in the field, and has never been whispered in PEDs conversations.  The man was known by only his FIRST name.   20 years from now when we look back at his career, we will be sad we didn't pay better attention to the incredible things he did on the field.   There aren't 10 other players worthy of being voted in before him on any ballot, and I'd argue he is within the 10 best ever elected into the HOF.  

[MN_ExPat]

I remember going to (then) Safeco field and watching him play in his "rookie" season.  Guy was an absolute beast on the diamond.  Before the start of the season, all the local talking heads spouted the narrative that Japanese players couldn't hack it in the majors.

Plus, watching him ABSOLUTELY hose a runner trying to stretch out a hit was awesome.  Freakishly huge arm.

So... I understand a person choosing to make that decision.  I don't even remotely support it, however I understand and do defend it. 

Plus I guarantee that he hates puppies and the Make a Wish foundation.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1 hour ago, BobAzar said:

so, it was Reusse?

I thought these articles were satire?  Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, baul0010 said:

What?  The man was a wizard with the bat, a marvel in the field, and has never been whispered in PEDs conversations.  The man was known by only his FIRST name.   20 years from now when we look back at his career, we will be sad we didn't pay better attention to the incredible things he did on the field.   There aren't 10 other players worthy of being voted in before him on any ballot, and I'd argue he is within the 10 best ever elected into the HOF.  

You must not understand how Hall of Fame voting works. You can only vote for up to 10 players on the ballot. If you think there are 11 players (or more) who are worth a vote it actually makes a lot of sense to say "Ichiro will get elected easily without my vote, I will vote for the 10 other guys who need my vote more than Ichiro does". If they didn't limit the ballot slots, then I would agree there is no good reason to leave Ichiro off your ballot.

You could argue about Ichiro being one of the top 10 players of all-time but I wouldn't agree with you. I don't think he's even one of the top 10 outfielders of all-time. I'd put him in a list of the top 120 players in baseball history which is pretty impressive. His status as a pioneer is pretty impressive as well. There are many Japanese stars in modern MLB and that is part of his legacy.

[TheLeviathan]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

This is getting way too much press. There are lots of defensible reasons NOT to vote for Ichiro. The best reason is if you have 11 players you want to vote for and they only let you vote for 10. It's perfectly acceptable to say, "Ichiro will get in without my vote, I'll vote for the other 10".

I guess I'd prefer the people voting for the HOF just vote for the 10 most deserving players on the ballot (if they choose to elect that many) than bring their own contorted logic with them to the ballot.

[DJL44]

25 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I guess I'd prefer the people voting for the HOF just vote for the 10 most deserving players on the ballot (if they choose to elect that many) than bring their own contorted logic with them to the ballot.

That is not in the ballot instructions. I have seen voters who vote for 10 refuse to add anyone new until a spot opens up. Their justification is "If I thought they were a Hall of Famer last year, why would I leave them off this year?" 

I wouldn't be surprised if some voters went alphabetically (the names are listed alphabetically) and checked off names until they ran out of votes. You can get to 10 names before you hit Suzuki.

[Schmoeman5]

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

This is getting way too much press. There are lots of defensible reasons NOT to vote for Ichiro. The best reason is if you have 11 players you want to vote for and they only let you vote for 10. It's perfectly acceptable to say, "Ichiro will get in without my vote, I'll vote for the other 10".

That's not a valid reason at all. There's always that ONE guy in every group. Hey! I know Suzuki is going to get in so he doesn't need my vote. So I'll give that 10th spot to Ben Zobrist. That's crazy talk. Because there have been ballots returned with no one listed at all. The HOF voting has went down hill since guys like Brian Kenny spout nonsense about guys 6 best years etc. And it ALWAYS goes back to Koufax. Koufax walked away at 30 off a great 6 year run. 

[TheLeviathan]

52 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That is not in the ballot instructions. I have seen voters who vote for 10 refuse to add anyone new until a spot opens up. Their justification is "If I thought they were a Hall of Famer last year, why would I leave them off this year?" 

I wouldn't be surprised if some voters went alphabetically (the names are listed alphabetically) and checked off names until they ran out of votes. You can get to 10 names before you hit Suzuki.

This only reinforces that too many voters take an idiotic approach to the task.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

That's not a valid reason at all. There's always that ONE guy in every group. Hey! I know Suzuki is going to get in so he doesn't need my vote. So I'll give that 10th spot to Ben Zobrist. That's crazy talk. Because there have been ballots returned with no one listed at all. The HOF voting has went down hill since guys like Brian Kenny spout nonsense about guys 6 best years etc. And it ALWAYS goes back to Koufax. Koufax walked away at 30 off a great 6 year run. 

If your goal is to get the players you support elected, why throw away your vote on Ichiro? One person choosing not to vote for Ichiro makes absolutely no difference in the end result. When it comes to the Hall of Fame, you're either in or you're not. You don't get bonus Hall of Fame points for having a high vote total.

[Schmoeman5]

15 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

If your goal is to get the players you support elected, why throw away your vote on Ichiro? One person choosing not to vote for Ichiro makes absolutely no difference in the end result. When it comes to the Hall of Fame, you're either in or you're not. You don't get bonus Hall of Fame points for having a high vote total.

So by that logic, when Jeter and this year Suzuki were shoo-ins the BBWA should attach a statement saying something  like this. We know Ichiro is going in the HOF this year so don't submit any votes for him. Give those votes to someone who needs help. And you're right. They don't get bonus points. But during their introduction it would be quite an honor to be the 2nd or 3rd player voted unanimously for. There is no good reason to leave someone like that off their ballot. Other than that person isn't qualified to have a vote. It's a jerk move. And they did it for the reason you objected too in your first post. "This is getting too much press."

[DJL44]

9 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

. And you're right. They don't get bonus points. But during their introduction it would be quite an honor to be the 2nd or 3rd player voted unanimously for. There is no good reason to leave someone like that off their ballot. Other than that person isn't qualified to have a vote. It's a jerk move. 

The honor is exactly the same for Ichiro as it is for Billy Wagner and Dave Parker. I don't know how why you would call someone a jerk for supporting a lot of players for Hall of Fame induction. There have been at least 10 players worth voting for on every ballot since they started voting.

[Schmoeman5]

13 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The honor is exactly the same for Ichiro as it is for Billy Wagner and Dave Parker. I don't know how why you would call someone a jerk for supporting a lot of players for Hall of Fame induction. There have been at least 10 players worth voting for on every ballot since they started voting.

 

13 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The honor is exactly the same for Ichiro as it is for Billy Wagner and Dave Parker. I don't know how why you would call someone a jerk for supporting a lot of players for Hall of Fame induction. There have been at least 10 players worth voting for on every ballot since they started voting.

How do you know that person voted for 10 other players? And there are NOT 10 players worth voting for on every ballot unless you want to change it to the name of Hall of Above Average or Hall of Very Good. And don't put words in my mouth. I said it was a jerk move.

[The Great Hambino]

Back when the ballot had the backlog of PED guys the game theory approach of leaving off a shoo-in in order to get more guys votes made more sense.  Now that those ballot cloggers have mostly cleared off, I think it's harder to justify.  I consider myself a big hall guy and I could still only come up with 8.

If they wanted to solve this, they could just remove the 10 player limit (only about a third of the public ballots used all 10 slots and the private ballots almost certainly brought the rate down, so there really isn't a risk of a bunch of undeserving players getting elected), or make all ballots public (if you can't stand behind your ballot, you don't deserve a vote).

But really, who cares.  Of course Ichiro should've been unanimous.  So should've Mays and Aaron and Williams and like 50+ other players.  You're in, you're in.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

How do you know that person voted for 10 other players? And there are NOT 10 players worth voting for on every ballot unless you want to change it to the name of Hall of Above Average or Hall of Very Good. And don't put words in my mouth. I said it was a jerk move.

I don't know what the person did. I was just stating that there are perfectly legitimate reasons to not vote for a player if you have more candidates that you support than spots available.

If you go back in time and look at past Hall of Fame ballots there have always been at least 10 future Hall of Famers on the ballot. Some of them took 50 more years to get inducted, but they were on the ballot. Even now, there are way more than 10 players on this ballot better than the bottom 20% of the players who have been inducted into the Hall of Fame. There were at least a dozen players on this ballot better than Billy Wagner and he got elected.

Please forgive me if I don't understand the subtleties between "a jerk move" and "a jerk". Those look like the exact same thing to me.

[Schmoeman5]

 

25 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Please forgive me if I don't understand the subtleties between "a jerk move" and "a jerk". Those look like the exact same thing to me.

My uncle Jack is one of the nicest guys in the world. Every time I visit his house he hides something of mine. Shoes, keys, sunglasses. When i leave i have to search them out. If you went to his house he'd  do it to you. He's not a jerk. But those are examples of a jerk move. Oh and 549 writers thought Ichiro deserved a HOF vote. It was that 1 genius, brave, forward thinking writer who thought like you. 

[TheLeviathan]

51 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

Back when the ballot had the backlog of PED guys the game theory approach of leaving off a shoo-in in order to get more guys votes made more sense.  Now that those ballot cloggers have mostly cleared off, I think it's harder to justify.  I consider myself a big hall guy and I could still only come up with 8.

If they wanted to solve this, they could just remove the 10 player limit (only about a third of the public ballots used all 10 slots and the private ballots almost certainly brought the rate down, so there really isn't a risk of a bunch of undeserving players getting elected), or make all ballots public (if you can't stand behind your ballot, you don't deserve a vote).

But really, who cares.  Of course Ichiro should've been unanimous.  So should've Mays and Aaron and Williams and like 50+ other players.  You're in, you're in.

My issue is that nothing in this world is more tied to antiquated, "this is how it's always been" nonsense than baseball.

When we buck that nonsense (see: pitch clock), the game is better for it.  The mentality that voted against Ichiro is almost certainly of the nonsensical BS that baseball needs to be done with.  Yup, he's in, but there is zero rational reason to have voted no.  And that's an issue, whether it prevented him from getting in or not.

[Schmoeman5]

8 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

My issue is that nothing in this world is more tied to antiquated, "this is how it's always been" nonsense than baseball.

When we buck that nonsense (see: pitch clock), the game is better for it.  The mentality that voted against Ichiro is almost certainly of the nonsensical BS that baseball needs to be done with.  Yup, he's in, but there is zero rational reason to have voted no.  And that's an issue, whether it prevented him from getting in or not.

Indeed. 

[baul0010]

10 hours ago, DJL44 said:

You must not understand how Hall of Fame voting works. You can only vote for up to 10 players on the ballot. If you think there are 11 players (or more) who are worth a vote it actually makes a lot of sense to say "Ichiro will get elected easily without my vote, I will vote for the 10 other guys who need my vote more than Ichiro does". If they didn't limit the ballot slots, then I would agree there is no good reason to leave Ichiro off your ballot.

You could argue about Ichiro being one of the top 10 players of all-time but I wouldn't agree with you. I don't think he's even one of the top 10 outfielders of all-time. I'd put him in a list of the top 120 players in baseball history which is pretty impressive. His status as a pioneer is pretty impressive as well. There are many Japanese stars in modern MLB and that is part of his legacy.

I don't need to know how it's done.  Some people deserve the respect they've earned.  Ichiro is one of them.  

[arby58]

On 1/24/2025 at 10:51 AM, DJL44 said:

You must not understand how Hall of Fame voting works. You can only vote for up to 10 players on the ballot. If you think there are 11 players (or more) who are worth a vote it actually makes a lot of sense to say "Ichiro will get elected easily without my vote, I will vote for the 10 other guys who need my vote more than Ichiro does". If they didn't limit the ballot slots, then I would agree there is no good reason to leave Ichiro off your ballot.

This is an incredible rationalization.  It is sort of the baseball HOF version of a Rube Goldberg scheme. Looking at the ballot, I'd be hard pressed (unless you are voting for those who aren't making it because of alleged PED use) to find even six or seven players worthy of a vote, let alone 10. Of those who didn't get in (non-PED players), I'd say Beltran and Jones were as far down the list as I would go. Maybe Manny Ramirez, given it is his 9th season on the ballot, but nobody else really makes sense to align with your scenario.

 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Far be it from me to explain the joke.

So i won't.

 

But as new Sh... stuff has come to light,

(Bunny kidnapped herself.)

But, well, you gotta feed the weasel.

I offer the question: where else has our non-unanimous voter also felt the need to reallocate their wasted vote?

Killebrew root beer: A&W and Barq's already have the backing of big soda.

Grace L Ferguson Airline and StormDoor company?

Almond butter?

Dr. Demento?

Tom Bodett?

 

[ashbury]

On 1/25/2025 at 7:50 PM, arby58 said:

This is an incredible rationalization.  It is sort of the baseball HOF version of a Rube Goldberg scheme. Looking at the ballot, I'd be hard pressed (unless you are voting for those who aren't making it because of alleged PED use) to find even six or seven players worthy of a vote, let alone 10. Of those who didn't get in (non-PED players), I'd say Beltran and Jones were as far down the list as I would go. Maybe Manny Ramirez, given it is his 9th season on the ballot, but nobody else really makes sense to align with your scenario.

 

I look at it this way.  If a gun were held to his head and he had to vote for Ichiro, he would have filled out his ballot a certain way with 10 candidates.

Now, go back to normal and absent the coercion, he leaves Ichiro off the ballot, and a specific Candidate #11 is added.

His powers of prognostication are so good, he knows Ichiro will gain election regardless.

What do these same mental powers tell him about his pet Candidate #11?  Shouldn't they tell him it's a vain effort from the outset? Candidate #11 is never getting in.

The HoF process was set up to let these voters choose 10 candidates, already a bit of slight overkill in order to assure no one worthy is not given plenty of opportunity.  Enough with the Game Theory hijinks.

[nicksaviking]

On 1/24/2025 at 8:24 AM, DJL44 said:

This is getting way too much press. There are lots of defensible reasons NOT to vote for Ichiro. The best reason is if you have 11 players you want to vote for and they only let you vote for 10. It's perfectly acceptable to say, "Ichiro will get in without my vote, I'll vote for the other 10".

Not a bad defense. Which if legit would probably mean this person would come out and explain this.

This is almost certainly a jaded voter who's pissed that HIS Mike Schmidt or Derek Jeter or Greg Maddox didn't get in unanimously so he damn well would make sure that Ichiro didn't.

 

[DJL44]

10 hours ago, ashbury said:

already a bit of slight overkill in order to assure no one worthy is not given plenty of opportunity

Billy Wagner got 10% on his first attempt. Guess he was a lost cause, we should probably disallow anyone who voted for him this year from ever voting again. Andruw Jones started at 7.3% and now he's on the verge of induction.

One-and-done candidates who should definitely be in the Hall of Fame:

Johan Santana, Jim Edmonds, Kenny Lofton, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Bill Freehan, David Cone, Kevin Brown, Bret Saberhagen, Rick Reuschel, Reggie Smith

Close enough that they deserved a 2nd ballot: Dwight Gooden, Frank Tanana, Willie Randolph, Buddy Bell

Ted Simmons was snubbed by the writers but managed to get the Era Committee's attention

Largest increases from debut to make Hall of Fame