A Big, Creative Cubs-Twins Trade That Just Might Work for Both Teams

[Ricky Vaughn]

Keep Jax and make him a starter. Put Festa and in the pen. If Jax doesn't make it as a starter move him back and bring Zebby up or stretch Festa out. This will give Festa time to refine his pitches and maybe bulk up a little so he can go longer as a starter when he is ready. Trade Paddack for salary relief and keep Vazques but prioritize letting him work with all the young guys who will be pitching no matter what because of the payroll.

[AKTwinsFan]

There's no way I'd trade Jax, unless it's for a premium starting pitcher. He'd be more useful moving to the starring lineup and with Brock Stewart and Justin Topa presumably in next year's relief pitching rotation it's a no brainer. Many good pitchers right now are coming off relief pitching.

[AKTwinsFan]

With the new TV deal the Twins should see a return by the following season. Will the Pohlands choose to pay up is the real question. They made the right move to move on from BSN. The Timberwolves and Lynx are in their final seasons under BSN.

[Mike Sixel]

The one position the Twins are deep on in the minors with TOP prospects is OF. No way I'm dealing for another OF prospect. And who's your catcher? 

I just don't like this idea. It might be fair in a vacuum, though I think the Twins get more, but it doesn't make sense in context of the Twins.

If, and it's a big if imo, Jax is a legit starter, he's more valuable here unless dealt for a SS or C or elite 1b.

[mluebker]

The Twins Way: Trade a player who's been a key contributor for a couple of reclamation projects, because they need to clear salary. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a AAA team develop players for their careers someplace else.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, mluebker said:

The Twins Way: Trade a player who's been a key contributor for a couple of reclamation projects, because they need to clear salary. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a AAA team develop players for their careers someplace else.

Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez say hi. 

[CCH]

Stick to your day job Mr. blood...

[chpettit19]

I don't mind the trade idea. Not one I'd pull the trigger on, but I think it's a reasonable thought process. Especially if you don't think Emma can stay healthy. He's never played 100 games in a season (did hit 99 in 2023). If he can't stay healthy the Twins do need more OF help as Buxton can't be counted on and Larnach and Wallner have their own question marks. What I don't like is the idea of bringing in a top-100 type prospect to make him a short-side platoon player. If you really think he can be a star you hand him a job and let him learn.

I don't have the slightest idea of where the Twins go with this offseason. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a trade of Jax or Duran or basically anyone on the roster. Also wouldn't be even a little surprised to see them run it back with the exact same team. Will be interesting to see how Falvey decides to handle things.

[nicksaviking]

Hey I like getting prospects, but I'm not interested in trading for more of them at this time. 

Offensively Alcantara looks like he's OK in most areas but great in none of them. Seems to me those types of prospects end up having nice careers spread out over about a half dozen clubs. They're not building blocks.

[Mike Sixel]

You want a prospect? Get Teel from Boston. He's the type you target. 

[mluebker]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez say hi. 

Even a blind pig finds a truffle sometimes, or so they say.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, mluebker said:

Even a blind pig finds a truffle sometimes, or so they say.

They have a winning record. They have a pipeline of pitching and OFers. Just go back and look at the team before they came.

SWR says hi. They aren't dealing young players for prospects, like that post implied. At all. Hell, they aren't dealing veterans either, other than Polanco. They held Kepler this year, for example. 

[nicksaviking]

33 minutes ago, mluebker said:

Even a blind pig finds a truffle sometimes, or so they say.

Disliking ownership or the front office or the team in general doesn't mean you can't acknowledge when they do something right.

[mluebker]

24 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Disliking ownership or the front office or the team in general doesn't mean you can't acknowledge when they do something right.

I don't recall saying anything about ownership or claiming this happens every time the Twins trade away a good ballplayer for a less-than helpful return, which they've done a little too frequently over their history than this fan would like. When it accidentally works out, I'm as happy as anyone.

If you're satisfied with that success rate, great. I'm not.

[mluebker]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

They aren't dealing young players for prospects, like that post implied. 

My post didn't imply that. Maybe you inferred it.

[PuckettProtector]

What is the consensus on putting Jax into the rotation and using some sort of combo of Festa, Matthews, SWR, and Varland to get them more experience and innings in the BP until they are ready to be full time starters? They've proven that they have the stuff to get through the lineup a time or two. Perhaps getting them more experience, especially in pressure situations, might be a benefit to their development? Real curious to see what people's thoughts are on this.

Good arms with good stuff at very affordable salaries and years of arbitration left. If an injury occurs to the starting 5, we can easily slide one of them into the rotation and bring up the next up and coming prospect who doesn't have the burden of having to go 5+ innings to begin their career...

[dxpavelka]

11 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

With Jax's pedigree I think he could go back to starting and be successful  , for that reason the twins should keep him and see for themselves  , yes we need relievers badly  but we also need starting pitchers to , give him ten starts and see if he can be a starter  ...

Look what we gave up for Lopez at the trade deadline and I see this proposal to trade Jax  not in our favor   , I think the notion to trade Jax would be a mistake  , he is definitely  a top 5 relief pitcher in the league  , ið be more inclined to trading Duran  , but here we are after the collapsed 2024 season talking about trading our best two pitchers  in our bullpen ...

Give Jax 10 starts and if he doesn't flourish  , put him back in the bullpen   ...

I'd be inclined to make Duran a starter.

 

[Tibs]

"That doesn't mean Jax will be good until he's 40, but for the three seasons of team control he has left, there's good reason to hope he could be the next Garrett Crochet, Reynaldo López, or Seth Lugo."

So you're suggesting Griffin Jax could be the next Crochet etc, and you're suggesting we trade him while he's 30, cheap, and under team control for 3 more years for an OF prospect who maybe can't hit and we don't need?

 

[Tibs]

Cubs need to throw in Brian Duensing before I'm even answering the phone

[h2oface]

Duran wants to start, too. Throw him in the trade. Duran and Jax will both go to free agency, and then sign with a team that will let them do what they want with their life. And it will probably be a playoff team, unlike ours. 

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, mluebker said:

I don't recall saying anything about ownership or claiming this happens every time the Twins trade away a good ballplayer for a less-than helpful return, which they've done a little too frequently over their history than this fan would like. When it accidentally works out, I'm as happy as anyone.

If you're satisfied with that success rate, great. I'm not.

I didn't say I was. I'm saying complaining about everything and pretending that the successes, like Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez aren't real takes away from your argument.

[mluebker]

20 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I didn't say I was. I'm saying complaining about everything and pretending that the successes, like Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez aren't real takes away from your argument.

They’ve been trading away talented players (or letting them go via free agency) in exchange for dubious “potential” and reclamation projects for decades. Sure, it works out once in a while. But a few successes now and then doesn’t change the overall tendency.

The Twins (always) need pitching, so maybe hang onto Griffin Jax. Make him a starter and see how that works out.

And if you want some big trades, how about offering up injury-prone Buxton and/or Correa. Offer them to teams that need elite talent to win now, and can afford the risk, in exchange for proven (or emerging) young talent that might produce at a lower level, but actually would play every day. There’s a lot to be said for consistency.

[TopGunn#22]

I'm not sure what the "consensus" on TD would be for giving Jax a chance to break into the rotation but I'm all for it.  I think Jax has earned the opportunity.  SP's always have more value than RP's and after what Lopez and Lugo accomplished this season I'd love to see Jax bring 5-6 innings of his "stuff" and his bulldog mentality to our rotation.

This necessitates seeing a permanent transition of Louie Varland to a bullpen role.  I'd still look to deal one of our catchers and maybe Julien to Miami for a return of Alcantara or Luzardo and STILL put Jax in the rotation.  It's easier, budget wise, to add BP arms than top end rotation arms and I think the Twins can't just run it back in 2025 and expect a better result. 

I like the idea of Festa, Matthews and even SWR getting run as bullpen guys and if injuries occur, stretching them out to fill holes in the rotation.  Many people forget that Johan Santana actually started out as a BP guy before he was so good we HAD to put him in the rotation.  A rotation of (Alcantara or Luzardo), Lopez, Ryan, Jax and Ober has no weak link.  A return to form of Duran and Varland blossoming in a BP role along with Acala, Stewart, Sands, and a return to form by Funderburk would allow the Twins to add one or two FA RP's who could be impactful.

Offensively the hope is that in firing all 3 of our hitting coaches the Twins hitting philosophy will finally evolve into better "situational" hitting and less HR or strikeout.  The Twins should build the pitching staff as I've laid out but they will have to take some risks with the lineup.  They may need to go with a Miranda/Kirilloff platoon at 1B.  They may have to ask more of Lewis and Lee than originally planned.

There should be no doubt that Castro is re-signed at that $6.2 million dollar figure.  He's just waaay too valuable in the role he plays.  If the Twins felt is was necessary to retain Farmer at roughly the same salary, then it's a no-brainer to retain Castro.  

And now with the news that the Pohlad family is open to selling the team breaking there could/should be increased optimism that the Pohlad's may spend a little more on player salaries to insure that they are selling their asset at its highest value.  

I think the Pohlad family finally realized they have lost the fan base and they messed up SO bad that it would take several YEARS to build any trust or support back up.  True to the bankers they are, they are going to cash their original $44 million dollar investment in for the $1.5 to $2 BILLION the team is worth now.  We should expect nothing else from the Pohlad's.  Let's hope whoever the new owners are, whenever the sale happens, will look at the Twins as a sports franchise and be more motivated by putting a competitive team on the field than what the net profitability of the ballclub is.  

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, mluebker said:

They’ve been trading away talented players (or letting them go via free agency) in exchange for dubious “potential” and reclamation projects for decades. Sure, it works out once in a while. But a few successes now and then doesn’t change the overall tendency.

The Twins (always) need pitching, so maybe hang onto Griffin Jax. Make him a starter and see how that works out.

And if you want some big trades, how about offering up injury-prone Buxton and/or Correa. Offer them to teams that need elite talent to win now, and can afford the risk, in exchange for proven (or emerging) young talent that might produce at a lower level, but actually would play every day. There’s a lot to be said for consistency.

I guess if we are taking about every GM, sure. I thought we were discussing this FO?

[tony&rodney]

Maybe the Cubs trade Kevin Alcantara for Ryan Jeffers. The Twins would need to swing a trade for a young catcher in that event though. Dalton Rushing and Harry Ford are both blocked and may be available. What do the Dodgers and/or Mariners want in return?

The Twins need to explore an assortment of avenues to improve their roster talent.

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

And if you want some big trades, how about offering up injury-prone Buxton

Perhaps Buck agrees to waive his NT clause to go to the Dodgers for Rushing and Sheehan.

I actually expect few deals this offseason but am just hoping for something.

[JD-TWINS]

On 10/9/2024 at 8:55 AM, Matthew Trueblood said:

Gotta read carefully! Alcántara is ranked 27th *overall* by FanGraphs--as in, among all prospects in baseball. Not just the Cubs.

Agreed on the Alcantara ranking - as we all know, it’s just a forecasted value on a player’s 5 tools though………..how high was Brooks Lee ranked across baseball (I don’t know) but his first foray wasn’t something that instilled an extremely high level future at the plate. He may improve and Alcantara may pan out - at any rate, I’d hang on to both Jax & Vazquez for a push in ‘25!

[MGM4706]

With a New Owner coming we should have more money to get REAL players in here!

[twinstalker]

On 10/9/2024 at 7:55 AM, Matthew Trueblood said:

Gotta read carefully! Alcántara is ranked 27th *overall*...

But for unknown reasons.  Are they ranking by height?

[tony&rodney]

18 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Agreed on the Alcantara ranking - as we all know, it’s just a forecasted value on a player’s 5 tools though………..how high was Brooks Lee ranked across baseball (I don’t know) but his first foray wasn’t something that instilled an extremely high level future at the plate. He may improve and Alcantara may pan out - at any rate, I’d hang on to both Jax & Vazquez for a push in ‘25!

Agree on keeping Jax unless he brings back someone like Duran (Boston outfielder, which is not happening). What makes Alcantara interesting is his ceiling. Whereas Brooks Lee was seen (likely still is) as a solid regular with a high floor capable of possibly being selected to an All Star Game once in his career, Alcantara has a lower floor but a much higher ceiling. He can run, throw, and field for sure. There is value in a solid regular but the Twins could sure use players who have multiple talents and skills. 

Noteworthy that Alcantara and Lee do not play similar positions, so they are not in any competition nor easily comparable. I believe the Twins need to improve their fielding and athleticism. They are a slow team and that impacts their ability to score and their ability to keep other teams from scoring.

[jorgenswest]

Cubs fans are mixed.

https://northsidebaseball.com/forums/topic/53906-a-big-creative-cubs-twins-trade-that-just-might-work-for-everyone/