Breaking: Minnesota Twins Part Ways with Hitting Coaches David Popkins, Derek Shomon, Rudy Hernandez, and Assistant Bench Coach Tony Diaz

[Brandon]

This was an obvious move.  Glad it’s out of the way.  On to more offseason stuff.  There are not many moves to make this offseason.  So enjoy the few depth signings a bullpen arm, a middle IF, and backup OF signings.  Maybe a Paddack trade.  Possibly a hitter like a DH part time 1B.  Those last two would be our big offseason moves.  

[Mark G]

11 hours ago, Linus said:

Unless the FO changes their hitting philosophies changes like this don’t matter much. They will find another guy to try and deliver the same message in a different way. 

Exactly.  The whole philosophy of keeping Rocco, despite his part in all of this, was that it wouldn't make any difference.  The FO wants a Rocco to carry out their organizational philosophy; if they were to fire Rocco, they would just hire someone just like him so why not just keep him.  So why should we expect anything different with coaches?  

This is the equivalent of DFAing your worst RP and believing you have fixed the bullpen.  

[Mark G]

10 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

Maybe having too many coaches is part of the problem. Why do they need assistant hitting coaches? Too many voices can sometimes cause confusion and contradicting advice.

My daddy used to say the more hands you put into a cookie jar, the more cookies you are going to break.  😉

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

It's the move we've been wondering about for a couple years.  I've alway had the feeling that he was probably very good with the technical parts of a swing but struggled with the feel of the game and reacting to major league pitchers adjusting to you.

At the All Star break they had ten lineup regulars with above league average wRc+.  The last six weeks they were a bottom three lineup in the league.  Too much talent for that to be possible.  

When we look at guys like Julien being completely lost I can't help but think with bad information you are a half second behind at the plate and dead.  

I will be very curious to see who they bring in.  This could be a top 5 lineup if someone can unlock it.  The makeup of the team requires it.

I don’t doubt that this may be a positive move. In late April he had to go……..by the All-Star break he had righted the ship & guys were striking out much less  with the bat to ball approach…way better approach…….the last 6 weeks were a consistent failure. (in the middle of bat to ball they hit a Hime Run in a bunch of consecutive games)

I struggle with coaching being the driver for a batter’s success…….players play. Hitters have been prone to multiple week slumps at various times through the summers for as long as there have been baseball seasons. Coaches try to create a positive mindset - a process to use as a crutch - history and strengths and weaknesses, the tendencies of opposing pitchers. Bat speed and bat to ball skills & confidence are all on the hitters.

I don’t think he waved a wand after game 20 in April to get things going and I don’t think that the approach with nearly every guy in the line-up changed for the worse in mid August. Guys get dinged up - guys go 0-10 over 3 days and lose their edge - guys get mentally & physically fatigued in the dog days of August/September. I struggle with “things were great & then the coaching got bad” type of thinking.

Hope new guy helps bring some success!

[1985Fan]

The hitting coach and manager should be responsible for the approach and philosophy. When the philosophy is to hit the ball into the seats, that only works consistently against bad pitching. When facing a good pitcher, there will be fewer mistakes to hit into the seats. Some very good hitters can hit good pitches into the seats, but I don’t see that type of hitter on the Twins roster right now. To be consistent, adjusting the thinking or approach would be required. Don’t try to pull the ball, hit up the middle, or hit it where they’re pitching you. I did not see many, if any, of the Twins hitters adjust accordingly during the collapse. Opposing pitchers kept exploiting their weakness and the collective slumps continued. 
 

[DJL44]

More important question. Are the city connect jerseys returning? I think they may have been the real cause of the epic collapse.

[LambchoP]

I understand the move after breaking the K record last year and then this September's collapse. It seems they were looking for someone to fire just to say " see, we did something, we're holding someone accountable." I think there are others who probably deserve to get canned much more, but it won't happen. Bring in someone like Maure as a hitting coach. Someone who actually has had success with a bat.... hopeful thinking :)

[USAFChief]

10 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

I don't think that's necessarily true. And him being dropped isn't necessarily an indication of his ability to coach. The reality is that he was the #3 hitting coach. Who knows if they'll even keep 3 hitting coaches. It's also possible that because he's young and inexperienced, they may think he needs more time, or that currently he isn't reaching some of the veterans.  That doesn't mean he can't coach or isn't capable of reaching younger players. I don't know Shomon, and I don't know if he's a good coach or not. I know he came to the Twins out of the indy leagues and didnt' spend much time coaching in the minors before being named the #3. 

Maybe they need look at their hiring process.

They brought a "young and inexperienced" hitting coach to the big leagues out of independent ball?

And now they're keeping him on, after failing, by demoting him?

 

[FargoFanMan]

To watch a guy like Royce Lewis continually chase and either roll over or miss an outside sweeper while being out on his front foot and then completely miss inside fastballs for 2 months tells me these coaches were completely inept. I’m not a hitting guru by any chance of the imagination and I can see what he’s doing wrong. 85% of his swings were in this fashion. You’ve got 3 hitting coaches that can’t figure that out? Not to mention the rest of the lineup was essentially doing the same thing other than Correa and maybe Santana. I watched  almost every game and I can’t think of one example where the Twins hit a opposite field HR in the last 2 months. The approach the last 2 seasons has been awful. I wanted the hitting coach staff gone last year but everyone was still too high riding the playoff victories. How does a guy like Julien go from a wizard of the strike zone to just completely lost all season? He was pitched the same all year. Outside, outside, inside. Every at bat. All season!

[FargoFanMan]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Maybe they need look at their hiring process.

They brought a "young and inexperienced" hitting coach to the big leagues out of independent ball?

And now they're keeping him on, after failing, by demoting him?

 

I’m hoping for more experience and a PROVEN track record at the major league level. Any coach can tell you how to break a slump. Just hit the ball where it’s pitched. If it’s outside hit it the other way. If it’s inside you can try to crush that. Too many times you had guys on base and everyone is trying to hit a 5 run dinger when just a bloop hit would’ve done to keep the line moving.

[David Maro]

Prime example is Lee who came up tearing the cover off the ball.Then after a couple of weeks was lost at the plate.This team will not be any better next year with no changes in management.You have half the team that should be table setters who think they're homerun hitters.Everyone gets all excited to see Buxton come up to pull the ball into the seats,but strikes out instead.He is far more dangerous when he is on base.This team refuses to play baseball,only wants to play homerun.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

I have never in my life seen a team go into a complete slump for over a month to end a season.  Literally, not one player outside of maybe Correa, was not in an absolute funk.  Even veterans like Santana looked clueless at the plate.  And, seemingly Popkins had no answer at all.  He had to go.  i said it previously that he would be fired to appease the fans, but it was also absolutely necessary.  

Is there a Twins hitter that seemingly got better under Popkins?  Wallner...maybe.  Larnach...maybe.

Are there Twins hitters who have regressed/gotten worse under Popkins?  Julien, Lee, Lewis, Miranda, Jeffers, Vazquez, and AK (?)

I hope it works.

[jmlease1]

2 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

I have never in my life seen a team go into a complete slump for over a month to end a season.  Literally, not one player outside of maybe Correa, was not in an absolute funk.  Even veterans like Santana looked clueless at the plate.  And, seemingly Popkins had no answer at all.  He had to go.  i said it previously that he would be fired to appease the fans, but it was also absolutely necessary.  

Is there a Twins hitter that seemingly got better under Popkins?  Wallner...maybe.  Larnach...maybe.

Are there Twins hitters who have regressed/gotten worse under Popkins?  Julien, Lee, Lewis, Miranda, Jeffers, Vazquez, and AK (?)

I hope it works.

Well, this is why they're dumping the entire hitting staff: the utter collapse of the offense for the last 4-6 weeks of the season.

But as with most things the answer regarding Popkins success/failure as a coach is probably a little more mixed. Julien regressed badly this season, but was excellent last season. You seem to be suggesting it was bad coaching this year, so what about 2023? We don't really know about Lee, really: this is his first time up in MLB, he only played in 50 games, and didn't break 175 ABs. Lewis joined the slump parade in the second half...until then everything was hunky + dory. So it's only bad coaching when the player stinks? Miranda had a dreadful end to the season...but it sure seems like he was hurt and trying to gut through it. Bad coaching or injury? Jeffers wore down at the of the season...bad coaching or injury? vazquez had a rotten year at the plate (again), but showed real signs of life in July/Aug...was that good coaching to get him out of the slump or him ignoring bad coaching from the start of the year? And blaming Popkins for AK's inability to stay healthy seems silly: Kirilloff didn't regress, he got hurt again and again and again.

If they think they need a new direction, then you have to totally clean house in the department, I think. Hard to set a new course if someone like Rudy Hernandez is still there and has been for a decade or longer. (not to single Rudy out for blame; there's plenty to go around)

I'd say Tommy Watkins needs to be reassigned since he was frequently a mess as 3B coach, but that's just me.

we'll see if this matters. Lots of player have their own hitting coaches nowadays and I'm betting that's who they listen to first.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I do think there's a certain amount of scapegoating here but the hitting coaches had to go. This team is too inconsistent at the plate and really lacked the ability to engage in anything close to situational hitting. That last part is on the coaches and, to a certain extent, the manager.

I run an organization that I have found that people will do what you ask them to do if you're clear on what you want and on what they will be judged, and what you want is different from each person. What these guys need to do is quit telling everybody their job is to hit home runs. Everybody's job is different. For example, Castro and Julien  should be told they will be judged on their on base percentage, not their slugging percentage. Buxton, Lewis, Larnach, and Jeffers should be told that their job is to keep rallies going and drive in runs and they will be judged on how well they do that regardless of whether they hit 15 – 20 homeruns or 30+ home runs. On the other hand, Wallner should be told that he will be judged on his power and slugging percentage and on keeping his strikeout percentage below 35%. We may quibble with some of the details,  but the point is everybody's different. I think for example that a lot of Julien's problem last year was he had a bunch of home runs in April and somehow decided that was his highest and best use. It's not. Castro doesn't seem to understand that taking a walk is good rather than chasing a double and striking out. That message then needs to be constantly reinforced because these guys get congratulated and high-fived more in the dugout for hitting doubles and hitting home runs than they do for hitting a ground ball to the right side in advancing a runner to third base with less than two out. I would sit down with Julien and tell him his on-base percentage needs to be over .350 with a less than 25% strikeout rate or he is never getting out of AAA. Tell people what you want and hold them accountable for giving you what they want or they can go elsewhere. I don't think the Twins do that  or if they do, they don't do it very well.

[Larry Janisewski]

15 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

I was listening to the Tigers game this afternoon and heard the announcers commenting on how the Tigers put up a couple runs in one inning.  "Three hits up the middle and one to the opposite field.  They are putting the ball in play and not trying to pull everything."

Too bad the Twins don't try that philosophy.

The Tigers first 7 hits were to the opposite field or up the middle. That sounds like the hitters had a plan vs the pitcher and followed through with it.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I would sit down with Julien and tell him his on-base percentage needs to be over .350 with a less than 25% strikeout rate or he is never getting out of AAA. 

Edouard Julien OBP in AAA this season was .395. K% was 31%. He doesn't have a problem with OBP, it was his batting average that dropped. He has had to start swinging at pitches he used to just take and wait for something better. He didn't swing at those pitches before because he didn't hit them very well. This is not easy stuff to fix, it takes a complete change in approach.

It is very hard in today's MLB to string hits together. League batting average is .243. Your chance of stringing 3 consecutive hits together in an inning is 1.4%. 

Guys should feel better about hitting a double or a HR than a groundout. If you're going to hit the ball, you want to hit it hard. That is what advances runners. BTW - the Twins were #2 in baseball in doubles. They actually had the best offense in their division and were 10th in OPS+.

They were 2nd to last in Total Zone Fielding runs and 25th in DRS. Firing the hitting coaches isn't going to improve their defense.

 

[twinsfansd]

They certainly need a new 3rd base coach. My God, how many runners got cut down at the plate by a country mile the last couple years. Not to mention the runners that were held at third when they could have scored. Seemed to me like he had no idea when to send them. 

Also, they lost a ton of runners between 2nd and 3rd on throws that were cut off from the outfield, or the catcher gunned them down after taking the throw. He didn't seem to have any sense fir when those runners were able to advance.

And my biggest pet peave was all the times runners should have been in position to tag up at 2nd base on long fly ball out, and didn't. That is shameful 

All lost runs.

But the Twins baserunning as a whole was horrendous. Whoever their baserunning coach is shiuld also be fired. 

And while I'm at ut, whoever their infield coach is needs to go, too. Their fielding was disgustingly bad.

[beckmt]

You don't fix this problem in the major leagues.  You have to start with the hitters from the time they join the organization.  Hit the ball where it is pitched and drive it where you can.  Also bring up some speed to open up holes in the opposing defense.  It is not rocket science.  Unless you are a major  home run hitter this should be the approach. 

[h2oface]

Cowardly. Falvey makes everyone manage and coach this way, and when the results suck, it is the fault of the guys they picked. But it is the philosophy that stinks. If your coaches suck, in mass, then it is the guy that hired them all that should go with them. Falvey and Baldelli are in arrogant denial. And Watkins not fired? I guess Falvey and Levine don’t watch the games, either. 

[Doctor Gast]

On 10/1/2024 at 6:00 PM, KirbyDome89 said:

Scapegoats. 

Recently it was the training staff. This year it's the hitting coach....

I had doubts about Popkins when we signed him. afraid because of his HR success that he'd be good only to support this all-or-nothing-hitting approach. But hearing testimonies of him helping players to adjust away from this approach I changed my mind. FO was very clear that they'd double down on their philosophy no matter our SO problem. Spring training focused on Falvey's all-or-nothing approach. 

The league had the book on Falvey's all-or-nothing approach. SOs increased but HRs greatly decreased. Twins' offense plummeted & slumped. Popkin was blamed for their struggles to take away attention from the real problem of faulty hitting approach. Baldelli declared the change of hitting approach to  players  taking better ABs. Popkins did a great job of incorporating the new approach that turned the Twins around and talks of firing Popkin stopped.

After the absence of veteran leadership of Correa & Buxton, the offense began to wane. When offense wanes & we need to score runs the tendency is to focus on hitting HRs. The offense reverted back to their old ways & the Twins went into a tail-spin again that they never recovered. 

To take the focus off the real problem again, Popkins has become the sacrificial lamb. Popkins is a good hitting coach, his only fault is obeying orders. Firing Popkin will not make us better.

 

[Doctor Gast]

17 hours ago, h2oface said:

Cowardly. Falvey makes everyone manage and coach this way, and when the results suck, it is the fault of the guys they picked. But it is the philosophy that stinks. If your coaches suck, in mass, then it is the guy that hired them all that should go with them. Falvey and Baldelli are in arrogant denial. And Watkins not fired? I guess Falvey and Levine don’t watch the games, either. 

Besides Falvey & Baldelli being the ones that should be fired. Watkins & Conger should be. Because of Watkins's terrible job as 3B coach & Conger as failure of our organizational catching development.

[DJL44]

41 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

After the absence of veteran leadership of Correa & Buxton, the offense began to wane. When offense wanes & we need to score runs the tendency is to focus on hitting HRs. The offense reverted back to their old ways & the Twins went into a tail-spin again that they never recovered. 

If they were "focusing on hitting HR" then they were awful at it. The main reason they stopped scoring in September is they hit fewer HR.

HR by month: April 31, May 31, June 37, July 29, August 34, September 21

Runs by month: April 133, May 121, June 150, July 111, August 133, Sept 94

The difference between their hitting in May and September is mostly explained by hitting 10 fewer HR.