Royals 4, Twins 2: Bailey Ober's Brilliant Start Wasted by Bullpen Blow-Up

[USAFChief]

Let's ignore removing Ober for reasons unknown. It's the heart of the matter, but we're gonna get "Duran/Jax best two relievers blah blah blah" till the cows come home as an excuse.

Let's focus on those two relievers. 

Duran's previous 4 outings: 4 IP, 1 hit, 0 walks, 0 runs, 4 K's.

4 saves.

As a CLOSER. In the 9th.

I don't know why he seemingly often can't pitch as effectively outside the 9th. But for whatever reason, he doesn't. 

Now you can analytics that, and pretend role doesn't matter. Or, you can manage, and put him where he belongs. In for a save.

You can look at Griffin Jax, EXCELLING at his setup role. Maybe the best in the game. And you could be happy with that. Thrilled even.

Or, you could feel the need to prove how smart you are. Flip flop em. Give Jhoan the 8th! Bottom of the order, Yada yada Yada. 

Yep. 

 

 

 

[Aggies7]

Just now, Jocko87 said:

Just think, two years ago Rocco wouldn't let anyone pitch past the 5th inning.  Now it's an uproar that someone didn't get a chance at the 8th inning.

Progress, people, progress.

To be far, two years ago, 2/5 of the rotation weren’t capable of getting past the 4th

[BJS]

Sad night 

[RpR]

1 minute ago, David HK said:

With the patch-work AAAA lineup we've been forced to field,

It is AAA, and it shows.

[Aggies7]

Just now, USAFChief said:

Let's ignore removing Ober for reasons unknown. It's the heart of the matter, but we're gonna get "Duran/Jax best two relievers blah blah blah" till the cows come home as an excuse.

Let's focus on those two relievers. 

Duran's previous 4 outings: 4 IP, 1 hit, 0 walks, 0 runs, 4 K's.

4 saves.

As a CLOSER. In the 9th.

I don't know why he seemingly often can't pitch as effectively outside the 9th. But for whatever reason, he doesn't. 

Now you can analytics that, and pretend role doesn't matter. Or, you can manage, and put him where he belongs. In for a save.

You can look at Griffin Jax, EXCELLING at his setup role. Maybe the best in the game. And you could be happy with that. Thrilled even.

Or, you could feel the need to prove how smart you are. Flip flop em. Give Jhoan the 8th! Bottom of the order, Yada yada Yada. 

Yep. 

 

 

 

It is odd, for a team that relies on analytics, to continue to ignore a very simple stat line when they mess with where to pitch Duran 

[thelanges5]

Either way we have the season series against KC. Let’s win Sunday and make it 8-5. We have Angels and Reds at home coming up. Let’s get back on track here fellas! ⚾️

[David HK]

4 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Get a chihuahua.  They're great!!!

Excellent choice!  Totally take your mind off baseball! 😂👍

[Jocko87]

I'm generally Rocco positive and also not keyed to rampant speculative anger so I'm very curious to hear Rocco answer some questions postgame.

That said, my first question would probably be something along the lines of...

-W.T.F. was that?

[Peter]

You cant lose this type of game you just cant!!!! WTF happened??????? Ober was crusing with 83 pitches allowing 1 hit!!! Im speachless and besides myself just livid!!!!! Making playoff is a must as is getting correa Buxton back in lineup ASAP!!!! How do twins recover after this???? Forget football Twins are way way way more important!!! Need to get back on winning streak ASAP!!!!

[Parfigliano]

10 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Get a chihuahua.  They're great!!!

 

[Parfigliano]

11 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Just think, two years ago Rocco wouldn't let anyone pitch past the 5th inning.  Now it's an uproar that someone didn't get a chance at the 8th inning.

Progress, people, progress.

Optimism.  Weird.

[USAFChief]

24 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It is odd, for a team that relies on analytics, to continue to ignore a very simple stat line when they mess with where to pitch Duran 

I don't think it's odd at all.

The Twins focus on the theoretical, not the practical. When you just look at a spreadsheet, it shouldn't matter when someone pitches. Many here believe the same thing. 5th, 7th, 9th, it's the same guy. What difference does it make?

It's related to the idea that times through an order matter more than results. 

It's related to the idea that anybody can play anywhere. 

Related to the idea any kind of lineup consistency is needless. There's no benefit to players knowing where they'll hit every day. 

It's related to their stated belief that pitchers and catchers should focus on the hitter, with minimal attention paid to runners. No matter the situation.

Theory over practice. 

Whether that's good or bad, well I have my opinion. Others probably disagree.

But I don't think it can be denied they strongly believe in theory and act on it.

[thelanges5]

 

[cmoss84]

17 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Get a chihuahua.  They're great!!!

Had one for nearly 15 years. Amazing dog. 

[TopTwinsFan]

13 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It is odd, for a team that relies on analytics, to continue to ignore a very simple stat line when they mess with where to pitch Duran 

100 percent analytics. 0 percent understanding of human nature. Baldi ball,

[cmoss84]

My apologies if I offended anyone talking about season opener Vikings tomorrow. I like more than one sport.

Farmer at 1B? JFC. And he laughs after ole'ing one. What a jokester.

[TopTwinsFan]

2 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

 

Great job Rocco! Way to be accountable!

[mnfireman]

26 minutes ago, TopTwinsFan said:

And the Red Sox have one of the best managers in baseball who will get the most out of his team. We have Rocco who will put his put his team into a position to lose. (see tonight)

BOS has 29 comeback wins and 34 blown lead losses and are 5-4 in walk-offs. Cora has a record of 511-440 (.537) and has been to the play-offs 2 times (but has a WS). He also had to sit out 2020  for his part in the Astros sign stealing scandal. Cora also gets a $200 MM pay roll to work with every year.

MIN has 35 comeback wins and 29 blown lead losses and are 5-5 in walk-offs. Baldelli has a record of 451-398 (.531) and has been to the play-offs 3 times (finally broke the losing streak). 

Not defending Baldelli, just showing the numbers that are out there. I also do not think that Cora is one of the best managers in baseball.

 

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

 

I hope this isn’t nail in coffin for season-😭😥🤮😤😡🤬👎

[silverslugger]

I was done with Rocco after watching the way he managed the 2019 playoffs.  I've seen nothing to change that opinion since.

[Parfigliano]

12 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

 

Maybe he is busy getting fired.

[S Bart]

“I go to the mall and I go to the Dior store and I want something, I get it,” Correa told reporters on Thursday of the high-end clothing brand. “I ask how much it costs and I buy it. So, if you really want something, you just go get it." “I’m the product here, and if they want my product, they’ve just got to come get it.”   New York Post-September 2022

A podiatrist advised me not wear canvas shoes (obviously not Nike), since they lack support and can lead to plantar fasciitis. Correa has stated that one problem that he has is tied to his Nike contract requiring him to wear their spikes. He has stated to reporters that the Nike brand hurts his feet, but he won't try another brand. 

Although, he has no challenges with Dior shirt.

[mnfireman]

11 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

 

About time the team has a closed door meeting!! Maybe some things can get straightened out... 

[TopTwinsFan]

Just now, Parfigliano said:

Maybe he is busy getting fired.

Please dont try to get us excited.

 

And to be clear: People being fired is not cool. A new manager to help us win would be.

[TopTwinsFan]

3 minutes ago, silverslugger said:

I was done with Rocco after watching the way he managed the 2019 playoffs.  I've seen nothing to change that opinion since.

His lineups, his timing on when to remove pitchers and keeping players from getting into comfortable roles are all areas he struggles in more than any Twins manager in my lifetime. He is atrocious in these areas.

[mnfireman]

As I stated in the game thread, let's hope this isn't 2022 all over, where injuries and bad BP performance caught up to the team and couldn't be overcome in September.

[Montdak]

Someone tell Rocco that Nolan Ryan averaged 107 pitches over a 27 year career.  He once pitched 235 pitches in a 13 inning game. But the game has these babied arms that still blow out.  Maybe if they’re bound to they’re bound to.  Tonight Ober had 80 through 7 innings.  He was practically untouched. Had one I think 6 pitch inning. He could have had a 15 pitch 8th and still been good for the 9th.  But Rocco once again wants part of the action and come in with the big move that wins it only for the umpteenth time the opposite happened.

[hitterscount]

42 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Let's ignore removing Ober for reasons unknown. It's the heart of the matter, but we're gonna get "Duran/Jax best two relievers blah blah blah" till the cows come home as an excuse.

Let's focus on those two relievers. 

Duran's previous 4 outings: 4 IP, 1 hit, 0 walks, 0 runs, 4 K's.

4 saves.

As a CLOSER. In the 9th.

I don't know why he seemingly often can't pitch as effectively outside the 9th. But for whatever reason, he doesn't. 

Now you can analytics that, and pretend role doesn't matter. Or, you can manage, and put him where he belongs. In for a save.

You can look at Griffin Jax, EXCELLING at his setup role. Maybe the best in the game. And you could be happy with that. Thrilled even.

Or, you could feel the need to prove how smart you are. Flip flop em. Give Jhoan the 8th! Bottom of the order, Yada yada Yada. 

Yep. 

 

 

 

Bingo!!! Rocco cannot seem to comprehend this!

[S Bart]

2 minutes ago, Montdak said:

Someone tell Rocco that Nolan Ryan averaged 107 pitches over a 27 year career.  He once pitched 235 pitches in a 13 inning game. But the game has these babied arms that still blow out.  Maybe if they’re bound to they’re bound to.  Tonight Ober had 80 through 7 innings.  He was practically untouched. Had one I think 6 pitch inning. He could have had a 15 pitch 8th and still been good for the 9th.  But Rocco once again wants part of the action and come in with the big move that wins it only for the umpteenth time the opposite happened.

Jack Morris - 10 innings - 1991 World Series Victory

 

 

[cmoss84]

Most closers do poorly when put in non save situations. Preparation is far different as closer, and should not be messed with.