Yankees 8, Twins 5: Walks Will Haunt, Twins Swept

[Johnny Ringo]

The reason we got swept by the Yankees is pretty fundamental. They are a lot better than we are. This is not shocking given that their payroll is over two times ours. 

Imagine working at a company where across town, a competing company pays its employees twice as much. Their holiday party might be a bit more fun. They have a nice tribute band. We are playing a boom box. 

The Yankees go out and get Juan Soto. We complain about a TV deal and then willingly sign one where no one can watch. The whole thing would be laughable if it weren't so sad. 

So I have to chuckle that a few walks are the problem. That is like saying my cologne is the reason that I'm not dating Jennifer Garner. 

[Finfineman]

The Twins made a pathetic effort to keep Sonny Gray.  They offered him a one-year contract, 20 million dollar contract.  He received a three-year deal, of 25 million dollars.  There were many in the beginning of the season that thought his hamstring would be an issue.  Gray is 7-3 with a 3.00 ERA on a team that won 71 games last year.  He would easily be the best starter on the Twins.  He is the fifth best pitcher in baseball.  He also beat the Yankees last year as a Twin.  He pitched seven innings with three hits and no runs.  The Yankees find a way to keep their best players.  The Twins worry about payroll first and are in the bottom third.  Gray would have paid for himself with more wins, and thus fans and the real possibility to advance in the playoffs.

[BsuNemo]

Any wonder if having Gray around last year helped Lopez out? Maybe a mentor or someone that knows what they're doing to bounce things off of? Sometimes taking the heavy load of being the top guy gets less heavy when there's someone there to share it with you...

[Ricky Vaughn]

This is something  that should wait until the end of the season. The only way forward for the Twins is to trade away every player except Royce Lewis. Take what ever they can get. If Buxton and Correa want to enforce their no trade clauses DFA them. This includes every minor league player that has been exposed to the major league players. Fire the coaching staff and front office then change the name of the team to the walleyes or some other Minnesota appropriate name.

Only half kidding here

[tony&rodney]

Angst blooms every time the Twins play the Yankees and support peaked after the series victory over Toronto.

The Twins were seen as a team to win somewhere between 83-88 games in 2024 and they look like this is fair. So 85 wins seems preferable to what fate is in order for many teams across baseball.

Couple of side notes: Stroman often benefits from a wide strike zone and gained no favors last night which exposes him. I like to listen to the twins games while watching several minor league games. Paul Molitor provides insights that no other person can. His knowledge of the game is unmatched. Molitor will drop an insight nearly every inning. I enjoy his contributions.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ringo said:

The reason we got swept by the Yankees is pretty fundamental. They are a lot better than we are. This is not shocking given that their payroll is over two times ours. 

Imagine working at a company where across town, a competing company pays its employees twice as much. Their holiday party might be a bit more fun. They have a nice tribute band. We are playing a boom box. 

The Yankees go out and get Juan Soto. We complain about a TV deal and then willingly sign one where no one can watch. The whole thing would be laughable if it weren't so sad. 

So I have to chuckle that a few walks are the problem. That is like saying my cologne is the reason that I'm not dating Jennifer Garner. 

To be fair, the Yankees haven’t been to a World Series in 14 years. Their players are certainly better, for sure. But they’re also coached WAY BETTER than anything we have. They were bad offensively (for them) the last couple years, and guess what they did? THEY CHANGED HITTING COACHES!! Hello James rowson! Watch the at bats over the series. It reminded me of a slow pitch softball league, where one team takes it very seriously and the other rolls a keg in to the dugout. 
 

But take it to the bank, we’ll be world beaters again this weekend. Funny, but sad 

[LambchoP]

Glad to see our schedule getting easier but man our starting pitching has been terrible. Aside from Ryan and maybe SWR, everyone else has an ERA of around 5, which would be DFA territory for most competing teams. I also think it's ridiculous for Rocco to NOT consistently put out our best lineup. Having Margot start, but then have him lead off?! Starting Farmer at 2nd over Castro? Jeffers over Vasquez. Sitting Lewis while he's on a tear and out best hitters the same day we sit Buxton? I've been very disappointed with Roccos methods this year, very frustrating.

[RpR]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

To be fair, the Yankees haven’t been to a World Series in 14 years. Their players are certainly better, for sure. But they’re also coached WAY BETTER than anything we have. Watch the at bats over the series. It reminded me of a slow pitch softball league, where one team takes it very seriously and the other rolls a keg in to the dugout. 
 

But take it to the bank, we’ll be world beaters again this weekend. Funny, but sad 

As Rocco said; The Twins played poorly.

I do believe, my opinion, a team that functions like a team, most players play every game, they know each others weaknesses and strengths, not : O boy , by guess and by gosh time.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Finfineman said:

The Twins made a pathetic effort to keep Sonny Gray.  They offered him a one-year contract, 20 million dollar contract.  He received a three-year deal, of 25 million dollars.  There were many in the beginning of the season that thought his hamstring would be an issue.  Gray is 7-3 with a 3.00 ERA on a team that won 71 games last year.  He would easily be the best starter on the Twins.  He is the fifth best pitcher in baseball.  He also beat the Yankees last year as a Twin.  He pitched seven innings with three hits and no runs.  The Yankees find a way to keep their best players.  The Twins worry about payroll first and are in the bottom third.  Gray would have paid for himself with more wins, and thus fans and the real possibility to advance in the playoffs.

Gray took a discount to sign with the Cardinals. He has already given interviews about how much he loves the Cardinal organization. He didn't want to be a Twin, even if the money was better.

[LA Vikes Fan]

4 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

I'm not sure what this makes me as a Twins fan, but I had penciled in these losses before the series started.  What I had hoped for was that these games would be competitive and not completely derail the team like it did when the Yankees came to Minnesota.  

A few things to look forward to:  we didn't lose much ground to the Royals or Guardians, the Pirates pitching staff is just as beat up as ours after their series with the Dodgers, and we are hopefully seeing Correa get on track.  That will add to Lewis and Kepler so we have a better balanced lineup.  Please let Castro play 2B so we don't have to see Farmer anymore.

Our chance is in front of us.  Opponents have a .436 winning percentage between now and the ASG.  

The Twins are 0-14 against the Guardians, Orioles, and Yankees; 33-15 against the rest of MLB. What that tells me is what's probably pretty obvious to all; we are a solid to pretty good team that cannot go toe to toe with the elite teams in the AL. This just smells like an 87-92 win season, a Wild Card berth with Cleveland winning the division, a win in the first round, and a quick second round exit. 

We're close, but not good enough. How do we make the incremental changes necessary to fix this so we can really contend? Lewis helps, and Lopez pitching like a #1 or #2 starter would help even more. There's possible lineup help in AAA between Julien, Wallner, and Lee, but that's likely to be more at the margins than in the middle of the order. The bullpen is probably good enough IF Stewart comes back. Still, we're short a higher end starter and could really use another bat. Very unlikely we can or will find both.

I think the answer is staring us in the face - trade for Luzardo or Weathers from the Marlins. Don't be afraid to give up multiple MiLB players including Gabriel Gonzalez, Luke Keaschall, and Marco Ryan.  Try for quantity over quality and keep Emma, Lee, Festa, and Jenkins, but don't be afraid to include one of the AAA/MLB guys - Wallner, Varland, Larnach, Kirilloff, or Martin if you need to. Count on AAA reinforcements and improvement for the lineup and trade from surplus, but improve the starting pitching now while we can. A package that includes 2 of the 3 MiLB players I mentioned plus a couple of less heralded players might be enough or one of them plus one of the AAA/MLB players. That's what I would be looking to do by the 4th of July.       

[MMMordabito]

0-14 against Cleveland, Baltimore and the Yankees with 11 games left against those teams.  Even if I give the Twins a ridiculous benefit of the doubt and say they'll go 6-5 in those games, that will be a 6-19 record against top AL teams.  That's a .240 winning percentage. AKA Pathetic.

Who's still drinking this koolaid?  

This team should absolutely not be buying before the deadline.

With the exception of Vazquez, because the pitching needs good catching to stay on track with development, they also need to stop wasting potential development opportunities by playing these at-or-below replacement level vets.

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ringo said:

The reason we got swept by the Yankees is pretty fundamental. They are a lot better than we are. This is not shocking given that their payroll is over two times ours.

Should the Twins just give up? (and other teams with less talent and payroll?)

[Blyleven2011]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I cannot take this team seriously. 

 

I cannot take this manager or FO seriously , the players should be better than they are , but with the plan of the FO and manager we are doomed  ...

We haven't won a game yet against Cleveland  , Baltimore  , dodgers or the Yankees  ...

The Yankees hit the ball where it was pitched against Ober and Paddack  , I didn't watch yesterday's game ...

We need twins  hitters to hit the ball where it's pitched ( the yankees killed us going opposite field the first 2 games ) , outside pitches need to go opposite field , they pull it into the ground all to often  , these players would be better hitters if they had that approach  ...

[RpR]

29 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

I cannot take this manager or FO seriously , the players should be better than they are , but with the plan of the FO and manager we are doomed  ...

We haven't won a game yet against Cleveland  , Baltimore  , dodgers or the Yankees  ...

The Yankees hit the ball where it was pitched against Ober and Paddack  , I didn't watch yesterday's game ...

We need twins  hitters to hit the ball where it's pitched ( the yankees killed us going opposite field the first 2 games ) , outside pitches need to go opposite field , they pull it into the ground all to often  , these players would be better hitters if they had that approach  ...

We won one agaist the Dodgers; yesterday walks killed us.

[Blyleven2011]

Just now, RpR said:

We won one agaist the Dodgers; yesterday walks killed us.

We did , thanks  , my mistake  ...

My point being we just aren't good enough against the better teams to win  , the team keeps waiting for good things to happen instead of going out and making good things happen  ...

Thanks for the Victory I missed against the dodgers  ...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

3 hours ago, Finfineman said:

The Twins made a pathetic effort to keep Sonny Gray.  They offered him a one-year contract, 20 million dollar contract.  He received a three-year deal, of 25 million dollars.  There were many in the beginning of the season that thought his hamstring would be an issue.  Gray is 7-3 with a 3.00 ERA on a team that won 71 games last year.  He would easily be the best starter on the Twins.  He is the fifth best pitcher in baseball.  He also beat the Yankees last year as a Twin.  He pitched seven innings with three hits and no runs.  The Yankees find a way to keep their best players.  The Twins worry about payroll first and are in the bottom third.  Gray would have paid for himself with more wins, and thus fans and the real possibility to advance in the playoffs.

Sonny Gray is the type of player who does not give a crap about rally sausages, spoon & egg races, scheduled rest days, and whatever

Thats what made him a bad fit here. 

[bean5302]

7 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Gray took a discount to sign with the Cardinals. He has already given interviews about how much he loves the Cardinal organization. He didn't want to be a Twin, even if the money was better.

I don't see any evidence he took a discount, and he signed for right in the range he was expected to sign. 3yrs $65MM to 4yrs $90MM was where pretty much everybody expected.

Falvey wasn't interested in bringing Gray back, and his comments regarding Gray in particular were pretty cold. Given the contract Gray signed $10MM this year, it's clear he was open to a creative compensation structures.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4957839/2023/10/12/twins-sonny-gray-free-agency/

Quote

Though he admitted it’s difficult to separate immediately, Gray said the Twins organization checks all the boxes in what he desires for his next stop.

While Sonny might have been able to eek out a few more bucks someplace, it's clear he wanted to play somewhere that looked like a winner with a good atmosphere, but he stated he wanted to be compensated fairly as well.

[bean5302]

6 hours ago, MMMordabito said:

0-14 against Cleveland, Baltimore and the Yankees with 11 games left against those teams.  Even if I give the Twins a ridiculous benefit of the doubt and say they'll go 6-5 in those games, that will be a 6-19 record against top AL teams.  That's a .240 winning percentage. AKA Pathetic.

Who's still drinking this koolaid?  

This team should absolutely not be buying before the deadline.

With the exception of Vazquez, because the pitching needs good catching to stay on track with development, they also need to stop wasting potential development opportunities by playing these at-or-below replacement level vets.

The Twins are right smack dab in the middle of their competitive window. If they're in the hunt and not buying, the front office is incompetent. 

Also, Falvey is undoubtedly feeling a lot of heat. His contract runs out this year. Pretty sure he wants to keep his job.

[DJL44]

23 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins are right smack dab in the middle of their competitive window. If they're in the hunt and not buying, the front office is incompetent. 

They didn't buy in the offseason when the prices were lower. I'm not sure they want to try to win.