Jose Miranda Could be a Sleeping Giant for the Twins

[JD-TWINS]

10 hours ago, Heiny said:

With the roster contruction as it is,  it seems to me that some folks have to go.  As I see it here is our current 26 man roster on opening day.

Kirilloff, Julian, Correa, Lewis, Jeffers in the infield with Vasquez, Polanco, and Farmer on the bench.  That's 8.

Kepler, Buxton, Wallner in the outfield with Castro, Gordon and either Martin or Larnach on the bench.  That's 6 for a total of 14.  With 12 pitchers, that leaves no room for Miranda until injuries occur or we make a trade.  My chrystal ball says there will be a trade of either Polanco, Farmer, or Gordon and Larnach plus a mid to high level prospect for a mid-level SP. Just hope they don't have to trade Lee, Lewis Jenkins or Rodriguez to get a trade done.  Kinda hoping to stand pat while looking forward to 2025 and after.  Confused with not really knowing what I want.

 

Only carry 14 position players in playoffs……13 position players through the year for a while during the season. 13 guys for line-up & 13 arms…….5 starters & 8 guys in the Pen.

The infield you site is popular but I’ve pushed back every time I see it shown. There is no practical RH bat at 1B. Farmer is the depth guy at SS - 2B -3B. People say “he can play 1B…..” how many games did he play there last year?

Polanco needs to be moved.

Miranda is the obvious add to the IF…..if he can’t hit in Spring Training they will be scrambling!

Gordon & Martin will compete over the OF need. If they are near similar offensively, Gordon gets the nod to start season because he’s out of options. He makes the team or gets traded or gets released.

Polanco & Larnach &/or Gordon need to be moved.

[JD-TWINS]

11 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

If Buxton is healthy and Martin is ready, you have cf covered.

If Miranda’s shoulder is back, you have a good platoon with Kirilloff at 1b no?

They do need to trade for a playoff level starter. I believe they will. 

Agreed, that’s where Twins are at & a pitcher should be top priority.

BIG if with Miranda IMO. He & Gordon are both a roll of the dice starting in about 5 weeks.

Just had a thought worth throwing out for consideration. They give Miranda a shot and he doesn’t cut it early……….can we carry a third catcher and play Vazquez/Jeffers as our RH platoon against Kiriloff at 1B until either Severino shows real promise or we grab somebody at the deadline.

[DocBauer]

Miranda's career has come in 3 stages so far:

1] Not a top prospect, but one reportedly to keep an eye on as he could bust out at any time. 

2] He busted out in 2021 BIG TIME. The muscles/power came over time, and he STILL made good contact, but it was contact more in the zone he could hit hard and not the bad kind of contact where he just put the bat on the ball and tap to an INF or pop up.  Pretty much the same thing Kepler began to do more of in '23.

3] Despite putting up good ST numbers, he's not close to the same player he was in '22 or '21 and has a bad shoulder. And yes, the "poor approach" suddenly seemed to come back again. 

I don't think the bad shoulder, compensating, loss of confidence, etc, should be ignored by anyone. I'll take bets the 2021-2022 Miranda was the real, healthy one. Now that he's supposed to be 100%, I'd say he absolutely has a chance to be a major bat for us at 1B and some 3B here and there as well. Having the option is great as it allows him a little extra time to get in to a groove if necessary. (As long as AK's wrist remains OK, he's the primary 1B and we'll be great there).

As to CF...since it was brought up...while it's not ideal, there is some interesting depth there. Castro is solid. Martin has potential, though he starts in AAA unless there's room for him to play daily. Keirsey might need a little more AAA time to crank his bat up, but he's got the defense. And there's so Helman, a RH version of Castro, who nobody ever seems to talk about, but is more proven at AAA than Keirsey or Martin.

I have come around to the idea of adding Adam Duvall on a 1yr deal though. He's a nice 4th OF, RH bat who can help without needing to be COUNTED ON daily, and shouldn't be very expensive.

[JD-TWINS]

10 hours ago, South Dakota Tom said:

I think the status quo lineup, with Polanco as DH, leaves 4 bench spots, 3 of which are taken by Vazquez, Farmer, and Castro. That leaves 1 spot for Larnach, Gordon, Martin, or Miranda.

Yes, I think there will be a trade of at least one of those 16, and absent picking up another ML fielder, that still leaves those 4 to battle in spring, now potentially for more than one spot.  This team has demonstrated over time that the player(s) without options are the incumbents, with all the advantages that entails.

There are 13 position players out of the 26 man roster. 5 starters - 8 guys in the Pen.

I agree with a status quo line-up from ‘23 to start the year……..with Castro in CF & with Buxton at DH.

Vazquez - Farmer - Miranda - Gordon or Martin makes up the bench…….Gordon (probably “no option” Gordon) or Martin play the role of 3rd CF, also available for 2B if there are some late inning moves.

Don't think Polanco will still be on the roster in March.

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, Karbo said:

Hopefully the shoulder issue is behind him. If so, I expect him to be a big part of the team this next season.

I’m thinking less Sleeping Giant & more Pleasant Surprise……anything positive would be fantastic for him & the Club.

[Bob Twins Fan Since 61]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:33 AM, 1985Fan said:

FO is in a tough spot. Stand pat with the roster or give up valuable players and/or prospects to bring in outside talent. Good news is the issue is a situation created by a good farm system and the depth on the roster.. I think there are enough options to fill in at 1B. One of Miranda, Farmer, Goodrum, or Severino could play 1B and probably do very well. The CF position has Castro, Gordon, Martin, and Kiersey to backup Buxton. Ideally it would be great to see full season from both Kiriloff and Buxton, but the backups can fill in and contribute to a winning team. 
Pitching is where they may want to add. Replacing Gray and Maeda is a large hole to fill with Paddack and Varland. Falvine may see it differently. All depends on what they expect from those two and SWR, Festa, even Dobnak as depth. The market for controllable, #2 type pitching just doesn’t seem to be available via trade and FA are out of the budget. I vote for FA signing if they can sign for short term high AAV. Wonder if Snell would do a short term deal with opt outs? 

The odds of Snell doing a short-term deal are very low.  He is looking for big payday and there are too many big market teams needing starting pitching.  Although he is still out there.  Which means his price tag is huge.  Sooner or later, he will come down a little and one of those teams will meet it.  

 

[chpettit19]

14 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Only carry 14 position players in playoffs……13 position players through the year for a while during the season. 13 guys for line-up & 13 arms…….5 starters & 8 guys in the Pen.

The infield you site is popular but I’ve pushed back every time I see it shown. There is no practical RH bat at 1B. Farmer is the depth guy at SS - 2B -3B. People say “he can play 1B…..” how many games did he play there last year?

Polanco needs to be moved.

Miranda is the obvious add to the IF…..if he can’t hit in Spring Training they will be scrambling!

Gordon & Martin will compete over the OF need. If they are near similar offensively, Gordon gets the nod to start season because he’s out of options. He makes the team or gets traded or gets released.

Polanco & Larnach &/or Gordon need to be moved.

 

14 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Agreed, that’s where Twins are at & a pitcher should be top priority.

BIG if with Miranda IMO. He & Gordon are both a roll of the dice starting in about 5 weeks.

Just had a thought worth throwing out for consideration. They give Miranda a shot and he doesn’t cut it early……….can we carry a third catcher and play Vazquez/Jeffers as our RH platoon against Kiriloff at 1B until either Severino shows real promise or we grab somebody at the deadline.

You think Polanco needs to be moved because he couldn't slide down to the bottom of the defensive spectrum at 1B, but you want to start Vazquez and his 65 OPS+ at 1B? Man, that is a lot of weight put on 135 innings at 1B. Moving a top 4 or 5 hitter on the team so you can play maybe the worst hitter on the team instead of asking a former shortstop to be able to handle 1B? Bold strategy.

[Major League Ready]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:33 AM, 1985Fan said:

FO is in a tough spot. Stand pat with the roster or give up valuable players and/or prospects to bring in outside talent. Good news is the issue is a situation created by a good farm system and the depth on the roster.. I think there are enough options to fill in at 1B. One of Miranda, Farmer, Goodrum, or Severino could play 1B and probably do very well. The CF position has Castro, Gordon, Martin, and Kiersey to backup Buxton. Ideally it would be great to see full season from both Kiriloff and Buxton, but the backups can fill in and contribute to a winning team. 
Pitching is where they may want to add. Replacing Gray and Maeda is a large hole to fill with Paddack and Varland. Falvine may see it differently. All depends on what they expect from those two and SWR, Festa, even Dobnak as depth. The market for controllable, #2 type pitching just doesn’t seem to be available via trade and FA are out of the budget. I vote for FA signing if they can sign for short term high AAV. Wonder if Snell would do a short term deal with opt outs? 

Snell has had 2 great years in his career but he has been mediocre for 4 years straight until he had a huge 2023.    I can't imagine Snell taking a 1 year deal after the year he put up in 2023.  Plus, demand for pitching is very high.   His agent is out there trying to convince teams he will be closer to the 2023 version.  Because of that demand, I think someone is going to gamble on him.  I doubt anyone is going to meet his current demands but one of the big revenue teams will take a chance and give him a 5 or 6 year contract.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Snell has had 2 great years in his career but he has been mediocre for 4 years straight until he had a huge 2023.    I can't imagine Snell taking a 1 year deal after the year he out up in 2023.  Plus, demand for pitching is very high.   His agent is out there trying to convince teams he will be closer to the 2023 version.  Because of that demand, I think someone is going to gamble on him.  I doubt anyone is going to meet his current demands but one of the big revenue teams will take a chance and give him a 5 or 6 year contract.

I think teams see what we see in his career performance so it's probably a struggle for him to get everything he wants. But even if his market does come down the Twins still aren't going to be an option because one of the big market teams will throw a much bigger AAV short-term deal at him than the Twins would. He's not a realistic option at all.

[Heiny]

On 1/13/2024 at 12:08 PM, tony&rodney said:

Don't use those. When they break they scatter widely across the room and can get imbedded in the floor and furniture. No good comes from a chrystal ball.

Don't worry, I'm too poor to be able to afford real chrystal.  Mine is made of some recycled plastic.  But thanks for your concern.

[umterp23]

Not counting on Miranda but let's see how Spring Training goes.  Farmer could be the right handed compliment at 1B before Miranda is something I wouldn't mind

[nicksaviking]

On 1/13/2024 at 4:42 PM, DJL44 said:

Hope is not a plan.

Was that suggested? 

Whether you go with Miranda, some vet or 1993 Frank Thomas, you're still only hoping for the best.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Was that suggested? 

Whether you go with Miranda, some vet or 1993 Frank Thomas, you're still only hoping for the best.

Hoping for the best is great but you should plan for the most reasonable result.

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Hoping for the best is great but you should plan for the most reasonable result.

I'm in favor of signing Hoskins or Turner, but aside from those consistent vets, I don't see Miranda as a less reasonable result than other options.

[TwinsDr2021]

12 hours ago, umterp23 said:

Not counting on Miranda but let's see how Spring Training goes.  Farmer could be the right handed compliment at 1B before Miranda is something I wouldn't mind

Farmer has started 4 games at 1B in his 7 year career (he has also started 3 games at catcher),  Farmer has a lifetime OPS+ of 88, can we stop with the Farmer is a possible right handed solution at 1B.

[TwinsDr2021]

On 1/13/2024 at 8:49 PM, JD-TWINS said:

Only carry 14 position players in playoffs……13 position players through the year for a while during the season. 13 guys for line-up & 13 arms…….5 starters & 8 guys in the Pen.

The infield you site is popular but I’ve pushed back every time I see it shown. There is no practical RH bat at 1B. Farmer is the depth guy at SS - 2B -3B. People say “he can play 1B…..” how many games did he play there last year?

Polanco needs to be moved.

Miranda is the obvious add to the IF…..if he can’t hit in Spring Training they will be scrambling!

Gordon & Martin will compete over the OF need. If they are near similar offensively, Gordon gets the nod to start season because he’s out of options. He makes the team or gets traded or gets released.

Polanco & Larnach &/or Gordon need to be moved.

IMO as of right now this team going north.

AK (1B), Polanco (2B), Correa (SS), Lewis (3B), Julien (DH), Wallner (LF), Buxton (CF), Kepler (RF) Jeffers (C)

Bench: Castro, Farmer, Vazquez, Gordon (Out of options they aren't cutting him so the can put Martin on the bench)

I can't see them trading Kepler, they have no real depth in the minors behind Martin and Larnach. I also can't see them trading Polanco unless they get a really, really good return, you don't just give away 30 year old players that can play multiple positions with a lifetime 111 OPS+, coming off three years of 125, 115,115 and hand the job to guy that had a .447 OPS against left handed hitters.

 

 

[umterp23]

30 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Farmer has started 4 games at 1B in his 7 year career (he has also started 3 games at catcher),  Farmer has a lifetime OPS+ of 88, can we stop with the Farmer is a possible right handed solution at 1B.

Like I said, wouldn't mind it for Farmer if Miranda starts the year really being bad.  People talk about Julien or Polanco at 1B in break the glass scenarios, no difference than Farmer at this time.  Hell, they threw Vazquez out there which was laughable last year.  

[chpettit19]

57 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Farmer has started 4 games at 1B in his 7 year career (he has also started 3 games at catcher),  Farmer has a lifetime OPS+ of 88, can we stop with the Farmer is a possible right handed solution at 1B.

Farmer can play 1B every bit as well as Miranda could. And his overall OPS+ isn't such a concern when he's simply the short side of a platoon since his career OPS against lefties is .825 (compared to .657 against righties). Farmer is the ideal "right handed solution" to any infield platoon they want to run. The question is who do they want to platoon, Julien or Kirilloff or some combination there of? I don't think anyone is suggesting Farmer is anything more than a platoon bat and defensive replacement for the IF. And he's one of the best options in baseball to fill that role.

[DJL44]

55 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

you don't just give away 30 year old players that can play multiple positions with a lifetime 111 OPS+, coming off three years of 125, 115,115 

2B and DH does not equal "multiple positions". Polanco cannot play 3B or SS adequately.

[Trov]

I have a feeling the shoulder affected him much more than he wanted to admit.  When you are in pain, no matter body part, it will affect your swing in some way.  When we are talking about the smallest fraction of an inch in a swing being the difference between hitting a line drive or a weak pop up or ground ball, every little twitch will make a difference.  I would not count him out as a possible offense guy, but I would also not count on him.  

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I also can't see them trading Polanco unless they get a really, really good return, you don't just give away 30 year old players that can play multiple positions with a lifetime 111 OPS+, coming off three years of 125, 115,115 and hand the job to guy that had a .447 OPS against left handed hitters.

Good players get traded quite frequently.  The team doing the trading away always believes they are making their team better now or in the future.  Sometimes the return is great and sometimes it's not so good.   Arraez was traded with a career 123 OPS+ at age 25.  That turned out fine so far.  The Marlins got squat for Yelich.  They also traded 2 years of Marcell Ozuna after he produced an OPS+ of 149 the prior year.  He was in his prime at age 27.  His OPS+ the next two years he produced an OPS+ of 106 and 109.  The Marlins got 6 years of Alcantara and Gallen in return.  If it's such a bad idea to trade an established player, why do so many people here insist that we should be able to trade for them?

[stringer bell]

Probably I'm basing this more on pedigree, but I think Alex Kirilloff is the Twins future at first base for the rest of the decade. I think he will hit as well as Julien and be a better defender. We've only seen glimpses of a healthy AK, but it is pretty good. The injury history is concerning, for sure, and having an adequate backup/platoon partner is prudent. With the current roster, that guy is Miranda, with Julien a possibility if Kirilloff is injured and out for a longish period of time.

It is not optimum to slate Miranda as the RH platoon partner because he's coming off his own injury and poor performance season. 

Kyle Farmer absolutely should be getting the majority of his at-bats against left handed pitching, but he's not a first baseman. He's probably the Twins best defensive option at second base and he has both career and recent success against lefties. Fitting him in at second against left handed pitching makes perfect sense as long as he's on the team, however, he can move around and give other players a day off or a chance to DH. I would hope that the manager finds a way to avoid strictly platooning Farmer and Julien. 

[TwinsDr2021]

49 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Good players get traded quite frequently.  The team doing the trading away always believes they are making their team better now or in the future.  Sometimes the return is great and sometimes it's not so good.   Arraez was traded with a career 123 OPS+ at age 25.  That turned out fine so far.  The Marlins got squat for Yelich.  They also traded 2 years of Marcell Ozuna after he produced an OPS+ of 149 the prior year.  He was in his prime at age 27.  His OPS+ the next two years he produced an OPS+ of 106 and 109.  The Marlins got 6 years of Alcantara and Gallen in return.  If it's such a bad idea to trade an established player, why do so many people here insist that we should be able to trade for them?

Notice I didn't say don't trade Polanco, I said unless they get a really, really good return. the Marlins got the 13th rated prospect in baseball and Brewers #1 prospect, the Brewers #5 prospect, a top 25 prospect and a guy that started 15 games for the Marlins the next year. Sure looking at it now looks like squat but at the time it was considered a really, really good return.  The Twins didn't give Arraez away because they had prospects ready, they got something really, really good. The Marlins didn't give away Ozuna they got something that at the time was considered really, really good.

Good players do get traded all the time, and the Twins are the type of team that needs to be trading players to replenish but teams like the Twins can't afford to give away good players for nothing.

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

2B and DH does not equal "multiple positions". Polanco cannot play 3B or SS adequately.

My point wasn't he could be a starter at those positions for an extended time period. my point was similar to what others are saying about Farmer, he can adequately play any infield position for a few innings or games. I don't want him starting any where other than 2B and DH consistently. I would rather have him fill in a 3B, SS or 1B for a game or two (at the most) against a right handed pitcher than Farmer, or 2B, 1B and DH against a lefty than Julien or Wallner (DH) or Castro (SS and 2B) or maybe AK (1B/DH).

[Major League Ready]

15 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Notice I didn't say don't trade Polanco, I said unless they get a really, really good return. the Marlins got the 13th rated prospect in baseball and Brewers #1 prospect, the Brewers #5 prospect, a top 25 prospect and a guy that started 15 games for the Marlins the next year. Sure looking at it now looks like squat but at the time it was considered a really, really good return.  The Twins didn't give Arraez away because they had prospects ready, they got something really, really good. The Marlins didn't give away Ozuna they got something that at the time was considered really, really good.

Good players do get traded all the time, and the Twins are the type of team that needs to be trading players to replenish but teams like the Twins can't afford to give away good players for nothing.

I think we can say with absolute certainty that not a single person posting here thinks the Twins should or will trade away Polanco for nothing.  However, Polanco is coming off back to back mediocre years.  How would you quantify a good return?  I honestly am not too sure what they can get. 

[TwinsDr2021]

8 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I think we can say with absolute certainty that not a single person posting here thinks the Twins should or will trade away Polanco for nothing.  However, Polanco is coming off back to back mediocre years.  How would you quantify a good return?  I honestly am not too sure what they can get. 

Then I am not sure why you replied to to my message. The last two years his WAR has been 2.8 and 2.0 in 104 and 80 games. I think a team would pay something for 10 million and a chance to get 2021 stats, no?

[Major League Ready]

5 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Then I am not sure why you replied to to my message. The last two years his WAR has been 2.8 and 2.0 in 104 and 80 games. I think a team would pay something for 10 million and a chance to get 2021 stats, no?

bWAR values him higher than fWAR which was 1.5 last year and 1.8 the year before.  What probability will another team put on him producing at 2021 levels?  Make that deal if a team believes he can produce at that level.  I completely agree he will bring back something decent but looking at it from another team's perspective, what would you give up?  Is it a 50FV prospect?  I really don't know what to expect.  I hope it's good because I think the odds are high that he is traded unless the offers are really bad.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

My point wasn't he could be a starter at those positions for an extended time period. my point was similar to what others are saying about Farmer, he can adequately play any infield position for a few innings or games. I don't want him starting any where other than 2B and DH consistently. I would rather have him fill in a 3B, SS or 1B for a game or two (at the most) against a right handed pitcher than Farmer, or 2B, 1B and DH against a lefty than Julien or Wallner (DH) or Castro (SS and 2B) or maybe AK (1B/DH).

I would put Willi Castro at 3B or SS before I asked Polanco to do it. If Polanco is playing SS then somebody got injured during the game.

[Cris E]

On 1/15/2024 at 7:27 AM, TwinsDr2021 said:

IMO as of right now this team going north.

AK (1B), Polanco (2B), Correa (SS), Lewis (3B), Julien (DH), Wallner (LF), Buxton (CF), Kepler (RF) Jeffers (C)

Bench: Castro, Farmer, Vazquez, Gordon (Out of options they aren't cutting him so the can put Martin on the bench)

I can't see them trading Kepler, they have no real depth in the minors behind Martin and Larnach. I also can't see them trading Polanco unless they get a really, really good return, you don't just give away 30 year old players that can play multiple positions with a lifetime 111 OPS+, coming off three years of 125, 115,115 and hand the job to guy that had a .447 OPS against left handed hitters.

I see a couple likely things happening between now and April 1:

1. Someone will get hurt during spring training and this problem gets less acute. It's inevitable.

2. I can't see Gordon making the team without some serious injuries to clear a path. He's just not good enough to justify losing someone better.  That said, Larnach and Miranda and Martin will all have to play their way on to the 26 man roster. But I do expect one of these three to take Gordon's spot.

3. The trade thing is real, so I expect Polanco to be on his way somewhere for pitching. That moves Julien to 2B with Farmer covering him against tough LH, plus it makes room for anyone else who forces their way onto the roster to get ABs in the DH spot.   I do not expect Vazquez or Kepler to be moved because we're less able to fill those holes, plus the contracts are not as attractive to other teams.

4. The MAT role as CF caddy only needs to be filled by a part-time CF.  It could be Castro I think, but then we have to hold on to Farmer to have a real UT to cover SS. I think that makes Martin a AAA CF until Buxton inevitably goes on the DL, at which point they decide if Castro or Martin is playing better and ready to take the job.  I kind of think Martin would get it, but these are young players so it's just a guess how things will be going months down the line.

5. They are still short at least one bullpen arm. Maybe Alcala will suddenly appear out of the left field corn. Maybe one of the scrapheap arms will turn into Brock Stewart.  Maybe Polanco turns into a solid LRP.