Gray to sign with Cardinals: MLBtraderumors

[Cornholio]

No details listed

[Cory Engelhardt]

Hopefully for a lot more than 50 million in total. :)

[LewFordLives]

Here's the link....  https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/cardinals-expected-to-finalize-deal-with-sonny-gray.html

It says the Cardinals are "Expected" to finalize a deal.   Who knows what that means.

[CRF]

No word on the financials yet, but it looks like he's gonna be a bird. 

[FlyingFinn]

The Cardinals must be the 2024 resting place for most former Twins pitchers - Lance Lynn, Kyle Gibson and now Sonny Gray.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

The expectations were for anywhere between 3 years 60 million and 3 years $72 million.  To sign this early I would guess closer to that higher number.  Cardinals were desperate for quality starting pitching.  

[LewFordLives]

2 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

The Cardinals must be the 2024 resting place for most former Twins pitchers - Lance Lynn, Kyle Gibson and now Sonny Gray.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the Cards overall strategy is. But hey, if this is the way they want to go, Dallas Keuchel is still available!

[MMMordabito]

12 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

Yeah, I'm not sure what the Cards overall strategy is. But hey, if this is the way they want to go, Dallas Keuchel is still available!

The strategy has got to be to win as the oldest team in the league.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

4 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

Yeah, I'm not sure what the Cards overall strategy is. But hey, if this is the way they want to go, Dallas Keuchel is still available!

I think the strategy is actual pretty decent.  Will be a bit of a stop gap but still what they want to achieve.  Gibson and Lynn are both pitchers that you can slot into your 4 and 5 spots.  I think both Lynn and Gibson will perform slightly better than last year.  Gibson getting out of the AL east and Lynn just had a rough year last year.  Both are work horses and tend to avoid the IL.  They are boring but excellent 4-5 options.  They still need a #1 or #2 to pair with Gray but will likely go the trade market for that.  They locked pitchers up before a frenzy as teams that lost out try to go to the 2nd and 3rd tier.   The will have revamped their SP line up for not exorbitant dollars but reasonable.  The issue is Lynn and Gibson are both 1 year stop gaps so will either give time for prospects to develop or be back in the FA market next year.  

[2wins87]

Seeing 3 years $75 million on twitter now.

[LewFordLives]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I think both Lynn and Gibson will perform slightly better than last year.  Gibson getting out of the AL east and Lynn just had a rough year last year.  Both are work horses and tend to avoid the IL.  

I guess that's what it comes down to. Maybe one or both will have a bounce back year, in which case the Cards are getting a good deal, but both are 36. At some point there will be further regression and injuries. 

[CRF]

Three years $75 mil...WOW!

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

5 minutes ago, CRF said:

Three years $75 mil...WOW!

if he would have waited I think 4 and $100 would have been a possibility.  The issue is I don't think he wants to pitch in the big markets after his New York experience.  

[wabene]

Let's see, should l retire, or take this little job offer for $75 MILLION DOLLARS? Hmmm.....

Good on Sonny. What a great deal for the Twins. All that production and still get almost the same pick back. The brainiacs got over on that one.

Sonny was fun to watch and came through for us except, unfortunately, that last outing. I shared the Twins aversion to a 3 year deal for him.

All we need now is another Pablo! 

 

[LewFordLives]

Does anyone know what the compensation will be for the Twins?  I assume the Twins will get a pick between the first and second round, but I could be mistaken.

[RocRedWing]

Loved Gray, glad to see he got his bag. I think 3 years $75 million is a bit steep considering the age. Nothing but the best for our tennessee hurler!

[FlyingFinn]

5 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

Does anyone know what the compensation will be for the Twins?  I assume the Twins will get a pick between the first and second round, but I could be mistaken.

Correct because the contract is for more than $50 million.

[wabene]

4 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

Does anyone know what the compensation will be for the Twins?  I assume the Twins will get a pick between the first and second round, but I could be mistaken.

Compensation pick after the first round, so around pick 31 or so. 

[DJL44]

That's an entirely reasonable contract for a CYA runner-up. I wish the Twins had been the team to give it to him.

I don't want to see any complaints about "large market" teams taking all the good players. St. Louis isn't any bigger than the Twin Cities.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

Does anyone know what the compensation will be for the Twins?  I assume the Twins will get a pick between the first and second round, but I could be mistaken.

More than $50 million so should be between the first and second round.  Before competitive balance but not sure on the prospect promotion for Arizona and Baltimore getting the rookie of the years.  

[wabene]

5 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That's an entirely reasonable contract for a CYA runner-up. I wish the Twins had been the team to give it to him.

I don't want to see any complaints about "large market" teams taking all the good players. St. Louis isn't any bigger than the Twin Cities.

True the St Louis market is smaller (Minneapolis 15th, St Louis 24th) yet they spent 175m last year. 

[tony&rodney]

No surprise at all on 3/$75M. Sonny could have reached $100 million total if he had been open to all teams across the entire country. The price for starting pitching is high. No way should the Twins even consider trading guys like Festa or Raya in this marketplace.

[Mike Sixel]

Good for him, and also likely the Cards. 

I agree with tony&rodney....the Twins should keep Festa and Raya unless they are getting a pitcher with 3+ years of control, because this ownership won't hire a FO that will sign SPs for big money.

[Nine of twelve]

3 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

The Cardinals must be the 2024 resting place for most former Twins pitchers - Lance Lynn, Kyle Gibson and now Sonny Gray.

 

3 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

Yeah, I'm not sure what the Cards overall strategy is. But hey, if this is the way they want to go, Dallas Keuchel is still available!

I wonder if Brian Duensing's agent has been in touch.

[SwainZag]

Good for Sonny and good move by the Twins IMO.  There's no denying Sonny was fantastic last season.  There is also no denying that Sonny has had injury problems in the past and he just turned 34 years old AND this was a career year.  The Twins will recoup a comp pick which will be very similar to the pick they sent to Cincy to get Gray in the 1st place.  Now let's see what the rest of the offseason brings.

[Nine of twelve]

2 hours ago, wabene said:

True the St Louis market is smaller (Minneapolis 15th, St Louis 24th) yet they spent 175m last year. 

In the days before MLB came to Kansas City and Atlanta, the Cardinals were the primary team of the south (including Texas), much of the midwest (including a lot of Minnesota) and the mountain west. Obviously it's not that way now, but the culture of St. Louis being a baseball-first market remains. Additionally, consider that there's no NFL or NBA there. That's what enables the franchise to out-perform expectations that are based strictly on market size.

[LA Vikes Fan]

2 hours ago, wabene said:

True the St Louis market is smaller (Minneapolis 15th, St Louis 24th) yet they spent 175m last year. 

The markets might be comparable but the Cards have a lot more money due to better attendance and a better TV deal. The Cards drew over 3m to a 71 win team; the Twins less than 2m to a division winning team.  Look back and you see the same thing over and over - the Cards regularly draw more than 3 million fans, the Twins are stuck around 2 million. A 1 million dollar gate difference at even $30 - $50 a ticket - seems low to me but I live in LA - that's the extra $30m to $50m in revenue for a $25m higher payroll if you spend most of it on players. Also, Cards are a long time regional franchise with a big following and have a better TV deal. Up to $25m more per year. Put that together and even assuming you only use 50% of the revenue difference from just attendance and TV revenue on player payroll you get a $25m-$40m payroll difference. 

Bottom line, Twins and Cards are NOT comparable revenue teams. I would say the Cards are a Tier 2 team (behind NY, LA, Bos. Atl) like Philly, the Cubs, the Angels, Houston or the Rangers. Twins are a Tier 3/4 team like Detroit, Seattle, Baltimore, or maybe the White Sox. Simply not the same.    

[DJL44]

19 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Bottom line, Twins and Cards are NOT comparable revenue teams.

Correct, the Cardinals have done a much, much better job building a fanbase than the Twins. They're contrasting examples on how to maximize/minimize your market.

[stringer bell]

From a Twins point of view, would the Cardinals now consider trading an outfielder without getting MLB ready pitching back? They've already signed three guys who figure to start the season in the rotation. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

32 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

From a Twins point of view, would the Cardinals now consider trading an outfielder without getting MLB ready pitching back? They've already signed three guys who figure to start the season in the rotation. 

Cardinals will likely be shipping off 1 to 2 outfielders if that is what you want to go after.  Nothing exciting but its something that has been mentioned a bit.