Game Thread: Twins (Gray) v Guardians (Bibee), 8/30/23 @ 12:10 CT

[IndyTwinsFan]

4 minutes ago, TouchEmAllGuy said:

Unreal..

... but, unfortunately, not all that uncommon with this team.

The offense basically not showing up for back-to-back games certainly didn't help, either. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Do I really to make arrangements and pay the money to fly from North Carolina to Minneapolis, stay two or more nights in a downtown Minneapolis hotel, spend hundreds, or possibly more than a thousand dollars, buying  2 or 4 game tickets, and then fly back to North Carolina... for a playoff game, because there is a chance I will have spent several thousand dollars, only to see the Twins lose a game like this one today? I know it is just one game, but really...!

[Azviking101]

Abysmal loss. Now we have to worry that Cleveland has basically first dibs of any team with a potential playoff shot at the waiver wire players. Folks, this division is wide open. 
Twins just gave them the confidence to put waiver claims in. Remains to be seen if they will do that but Twins just gave them an in. 

[GusGus11]

4 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

A lot of you piling on the manager.

MAT turned a single into a double at a pretty crucial moment   Thielbar is usually death to lefties, Kwan beat him.  Duran is who you want to finish games, he blew it.   

The offense had 4 hits all game.

 

To be fair,

Nothing you said is wrong. But thats the issue with Rocco. We dont have a manager to overcome our deficiences. We dont have that type of coach who has a feel for the game and can pick up the slack. He just adds to it with everything he does.

We all should have known he was managing with heat stroke the moment he used Jordan Luplow as a pinch hitter.

We somehow just lost the series after winning game 1. Having Lopez and Gray up next. Cleveland having their starter get hurt after 1 inning yesterday. We still lost it. Thats so bad. For everyone. Manager steers the ship.

He made numerous decisions that made no sense. He bats Correa in spots to routinely not deliver.

Good managers push the right buttons and dont leave fans perplexed as to what even was the button he pushed(luplow).

[IndyTwinsFan]

1 minute ago, GusGus11 said:

To be fair,

Nothing you said is wrong. But thats the issue with Rocco. We dont have a manager to overcome our deficiences. We dont have that type of coach who has a feel for the game and can pick up the slack. He just adds to it with everything he does.

We all should have known he was managing with heat stroke the moment he used Jordan Luplow as a pinch hitter.

We somehow just lost the series after winning game 1. Having Lopez and Gray up next. Cleveland having their starter get hurt after 1 inning yesterday. We still lost it. Thats so bad. For everyone. Manager steers the ship.

He made numerous decisions that made no sense. He bats Correa in spots to routinely not deliver.

Good managers push the right buttons and dont leave fans perplexed as to what even was the button he pushed(luplow).

Well put!

[mrtwinsfan]

Lakadaisacal  --  cant ever advance runners  --These twins have found more insane improbable  ways to give games ive ever seen  away,   alot of em talk a good game when talking about a 2 strike approach,  couple players kinda try  different approach,  we hardly never Bunt when needed  Rocco is not a emotions guy ,  Correa cant get out of his own way to Lead,    Whole team seems lost when we dont hit Homers,   there were at least 4  average plays today where this team cant exacute ,   Team Effort  ,  Team Loss ,  Almost Comical

[SwainZag]

3 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

Correct. But do you think things like this won't happen in the playoffs? Do you think you might be in a close game or extra innings ever?

I get it, this one is on some bad play just as much, but it just seems to me this kind of thing happens more often than not with Rocco. Not a hard decision to let your best reliever this season get your last out rather than a guy you just brought up a day ago. 

 

Of course they happen, in just baffled at how many fans won't hold players accountable.   They are professional ball players.

If Pagan gives up the HR to Calhoun, the same posters are complaining about Rocco trusting Pagan in that situation. 

If players do their job, the Twins win this ball game.  The managers job is to put them in position to win, and he did that. 

It's inexcusable for MAT to allow an extra base in the 8th.  It's inexcusable for Duran to throw a pitch behind a batter with 2 outs in the 9th.  

I don't always believe in Rocco's decisions, but the amount of blame he gets around here sometimes is truly baffling. 

[wavedog]

This is a disheartening loss - sloppy play from the 8th inning on.  They may not have thought this but sure looked like they played like we had this game in the bag.   Shame on the bullpen wasting a great pitching performance by Gray.  

[Battle ur tail off]

6 minutes ago, Azviking101 said:

Abysmal loss. Now we have to worry that Cleveland has basically first dibs of any team with a potential playoff shot at the waiver wire players. Folks, this division is wide open. 
Twins just gave them the confidence to put waiver claims in. Remains to be seen if they will do that but Twins just gave them an in. 

The division is not "wide open". I think the Twins chances of winning it at this point is right around 90%. Cleveland has to play really well and get really lucky to pass us. That said, it IS frustrating losing game like this to the team chasing us.

[mrtwinsfan]

10 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

If you could ensure me that missing the play-offs mean Falvey/Rocco are fired, I'd take it. 

Rocco is signed thru 2025,   still believe, twins will get in ,  Deserve to ,   100   Percent  no !!! And ill be Rooting for a 1st round win with everyone here !!    Crazy Game ,   

[BiggestRoccoFan]

And for all of you Rocco supporters.

A managers main job is to put his players in positions to succeed.

Rocco does not, has not, and will never do that because he is in way over his head.

 

[BiggestRoccoFan]

Just now, BiggestRoccoFan said:

And for all of you Rocco supporters.

A managers main job is to put his players in positions to succeed.

Rocco does not, has not, and will never do that because he is in way over his head.

 

We had a chance to put Cleveland away and we failed miserably.

[SwainZag]

3 minutes ago, GusGus11 said:

To be fair,

Nothing you said is wrong. But thats the issue with Rocco. We dont have a manager to overcome our deficiences. We dont have that type of coach who has a feel for the game and can pick up the slack. He just adds to it with everything he does.

We all should have known he was managing with heat stroke the moment he used Jordan Luplow as a pinch hitter.

We somehow just lost the series after winning game 1. Having Lopez and Gray up next. Cleveland having their starter get hurt after 1 inning yesterday. We still lost it. Thats so bad. For everyone. Manager steers the ship.

He made numerous decisions that made no sense. He bats Correa in spots to routinely not deliver.

Good managers push the right buttons and dont leave fans perplexed as to what even was the button he pushed(luplow).

Meh, that's just using the manager as a scapegoat.   I have no problem placing blame on Duran for sucking or Correa for leaving a village on the basepaths.

The young core of Julien, Lewis, Wallner and Jeffers went 0/14 with 10 K's.  It's okay to say whelp they had a bad game, rather than going to straight to blame the manager. 

[mrtwinsfan]

17 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

Emilio look pretty shocked that he was being taken out.

He  wasent Alone

[Azviking101]

6 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

The division is not "wide open". I think the Twins chances of winning it at this point is right around 90%. Cleveland has to play really well and get really lucky to pass us. That said, it IS frustrating losing game like this to the team chasing us.

Cleveland might now have the hope that it's wide open and if they get, let's say Moore, Giolito and Grichuk, that improves their chances even more. At the very least it hurts the Twins chances to get anyone here.

While I agree the Twins should win this division, this was a bad loss and it hurts the Twins opportunity to actually do something in the playoffs. Can't wait to lead more games through 6 and watch them crumble in an instant.

[BiggestRoccoFan]

3 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

Meh, that's just using the manager as a scapegoat.   I have no problem placing blame on Duran for sucking or Correa for leaving a village on the basepaths.

The young core of Julien, Lewis, Wallner and Jeffers went 0/14 with 10 K's.  It's okay to say whelp they had a bad game, rather than going to straight to blame the manager. 

Why do you cut him so much slack?

[IndyTwinsFan]

2 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

We had a chance to put Cleveland away and we failed miserably.

As I like to tell myself, we just can't do anything the easy way.  We almost always try the most difficult way to achieve the desired result, and oftentimes, we don't succeed when doing that.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

And for all of you Rocco supporters.

A managers main job is to put his players in positions to succeed.

Rocco does not, has not, and will never do that because he is in way over his head.

 

He literally did that today, and they blew it. 

[BiggestRoccoFan]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He literally did that today, and they blew it. 

You don't put a rookie pitcher in that situation who has barely been here for 24 hours.

That was an awful move made by an awful manager.

He can't even read his computer to see that Calhoun hits lefties better than righties.

So no he did not.

 

[Battle ur tail off]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He literally did that today, and they blew it. 

Yep, he did. Right until the end when he thought he'd pull his best reliever this season out for the one that just got off the bus from St. Paul. That's a tough spot for that kid right there. I can't believe there is really any arguing that????

[SwainZag]

32 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

All true, except the part about Thielbar , and none of that excuses letting Mark Funderbunk lose this game when he wasn't the last guy left in the pen. 

That's an error at least as bad as those you listed. I'd say miles worse. 

And let's not forget somehow having Gallo start the game but decide that's a bad idea in his SECOND plate appearance against THE SAME PITCHER.

Lefties are hitting .121 against Thielbar and strike out 31% if the time, while he's carrying a 0.40 WHIP against them.  It is extremely true about the statement, and he's the pitcher you want in there against Kwan.

Gallo and Luplow are both terrible.  I don't really see the uproar, he probably tweaked something, really unusual spot to pull Gallo otherwise.

[GusGus11]

9 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

Meh, that's just using the manager as a scapegoat.   I have no problem placing blame on Duran for sucking or Correa for leaving a village on the basepaths.

The young core of Julien, Lewis, Wallner and Jeffers went 0/14 with 10 K's.  It's okay to say whelp they had a bad game, rather than going to straight to blame the manager. 

Not using him as a scapegoat.

I am just saying that he cannot manage a game and overcome anything around him. That is all.

Lot of people get blame. Hes the manager that made ill advised moves so hes at the top of the order. Young guys get no pass either. 

Some of his decisions though are not just a product of good or bad. Opinion vs opinion depending on how you view strategy. He has decisions where I cant even tell what his thought process was to even try to objectively judge the decision. For example...

 I am all ears if you have an explanation for me. Why did he let Luplow bat in the bottom of the 7th vs a right hander only to just use Taylor on D in the 8th? Like I have such a headache trying to think of what his logic could have been I just want to know even a long shot possibility.

And I fully admit, Taylor batting there likely doesnt result in us scoring that inning but there was only 1 out at the time. So there was a punchers chance...

[Squirrel]

25 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

Why do you cut him so much slack?

Why do you pile on unnecessarily? Seriously ... is Rocco a great manager? No. I don't think anyone thinks he is. But you make it sound like he's the absolute worst thing in baseball.

There is no one person to blame for this loss. There are several. And I don't even think the manager is at the top of the list, but he's in there somewhere. But this all or nothing take on the it's all the manager is just old and not even correct, imo.

[Squirrel]

8 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

You don't put a rookie pitcher in that situation who has barely been here for 24 hours.

That was an awful move made by an awful manager.

He can't even read his computer to see that Calhoun hits lefties better than righties.

So no he did not.

 

But we wouldn't even be in that position if others had done their jobs to begin with. As I just said, this isn't all on him, not even close. But you make it sound like it is. It isn't. He's not a great manager but he is far from the worst.

[Battle ur tail off]

7 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

There is no one person to blame for this loss. There are several. And I don't even think the manager is at the top of the list, but he's in there somewhere. But this all or nothing take on the it's all the manager is just old and not even correct, imo.

Even I can agree with this. It took a large part of the game to unravel until Rocco made a mistake. Keeping Gray for 7 and using pretty much all of the guys you consider your best arms in the BP to lock it down was right on the money.

It was just the Funderbunk for Pagan move that sealed it. And this kind of thing happens quite a darn bit with Rocco. Enough that you are going to get people that are frustrated with him to make some comments after something goes wrong. Just the way it is. 

[insagt1]

ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly loss on many levels. First blowing that great effort by Gray late in the game. The way Cleveland tied it, Twins running out a raw rookie in the 10th in a very important game. And by losing it, it gives Cleveland life they really shouldn't have. But Twins struggle to beat those guys and they literally gave this one away. Plus their hitters strike out WAY too much. All season, killing rally after rally.

Jeffers is in a deep funk right now and while Vazquez isn't much better, Jeffers is lost at the plate. The pen is unreliable. But all that aside, they had to win this one, they had it in their grasp and they blew it. The difference between winning this series and losing it is telling IMO.

A truly bad loss in every way. Very disappointed. This is why Twins may never really reach their potential. They can't sustain any momentum.

[AZDane]

Correa should be batting 8th or 9th in the lineup. He is killing our offense worse than Gallo.

[MABB1959]

In the bottom of the 9th Cleveland had a sac fly, a stolen base and a bunt.  Is that “small ball’.  Followed up by a 3 run home run 

[akmanak]

I see a lot of knee jerk reaction in regards to this being the worst loss of the season.  Not true.  Did this sting? Yup, but it still doesn't change the fact that we hold a 5 game lead and will have a chance to put it out of reach when we play them again. 

 

I was frustrated by Rocco again but I don't care. This team isn't a World Series team, this team is simply good enough to win a weak division. 

 

People seem to forget that.  They don't have the talent to succeed in a deep playoff run.  All I really hope is that they can break the curse and win one game and because expectations are that low for me, it is pretty easy to brush this loss off. 

 

One thing I just can't wrap my head around is bringing in a left handed pitcher against a guy that crushes left handed pitchers.  If Rocco is so dead set and playing the analytics, this move doesn't make sense in the slightest. 

I mean just look at Funders left handed split is terrible.  I just don't get it.

[Dave Borton]

1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

only to see the Twins lose a game like this one today? I know it is just one game, but really...!

I would do it for baseball, not just a particular club, ie Twins. I will go anywhere for a game, and I have. Traveled the whole Midwest via Amtrak for a series of 6 games.

Find a good restaurant, a nice bar, a great sightline at Target Field, surrounded by super friendly fans. Depends on whether your needs are for a Twins win or an experience.