Rocco's take after the game today

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, wabene said:

There have gotta be some moves today, right? 

 

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

You can't say what he said and then do nothing (I mean you can)

It is going to be interesting to see how the attendance is when they get back from Baltimore.

I really hope there are, but I don't expect them. I think, in his head, he was talking about changing things behind the scenes with their approach, or preparation, or effort, or whatever. I don't at all expect them to make any moves today. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but I expect to see the same 26 guys in the dugout tomorrow that we saw yesterday.

[CRF]

13 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

 

I really hope there are, but I don't expect them. I think, in his head, he was talking about changing things behind the scenes with their approach, or preparation, or effort, or whatever. I don't at all expect them to make any moves today. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but I expect to see the same 26 guys in the dugout tomorrow that we saw yesterday.

I agree 100%. They're probably not going to do much, if anything. What I got out of his comments, is exactly what you did. He's thinking they need to do some internal stuff...preparation etc. That's it. I'd bet they have the same guys in the dugout tomorrow, as they did yesterday. 

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

 

I really hope there are, but I don't expect them. I think, in his head, he was talking about changing things behind the scenes with their approach, or preparation, or effort, or whatever. I don't at all expect them to make any moves today. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but I expect to see the same 26 guys in the dugout tomorrow that we saw yesterday.

Yeah... that's my expectation as well.

When he says "we have to make some really, really legitimate adjustments to what we’re doing right now". 

Those words are going to come from what is in head and heard by what is in my head? 

To me adjustments are over due roster adjustments... To him it may mean adjustment to approach. One sentence... two interpretations. 

Personally, I assume they have been trying to adjust approach and it clearly hasn't been working so I'm not really not going to hear that... if... that is what he meant. 

No matter what he meant... I think he should toss someone overboard for punctuation on whatever that sentence meant.  

[wabene]

19 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I expect to see the same 26 guys in the dugout tomorrow that we saw yesterday

If that is the case, I'm taking a freaking sabbatical, lol.

For about 20 bucks a year I have the excellent MLB AT BAT app. You can listen to any game and any feed that was produced. You also get to watch all the minor league games. With the Twins affiliates scoring 12, 15 and 16 runs yesterday, my future coarse is clear. Might as well live in the future when the present is fubar. 

[Parfigliano]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

It scares me to say that because I don't want this front office here for another rebuild/reload, I also don't want them to go for it either because I don't want them trading away assets. What I am saying is I want whatever needs to happen for them to be gone after this year or before.

I want them fired before the MLB DRAFT

[Squirrel]

11 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

OK... You've said it out loud.

“I mean if I’m rolling that up and trying to portray it any other way I’m lying, so we have to make some really, really legitimate adjustments to what we’re doing right now if we’re going to go out there and compete and win games against that team or really any other team,”

Let me just say... welcome to the party... we have all been waiting for you to join us. Now that you've said it... you are going to have show you are serious and that means actually making some really, really legitimate adjustments to immediately back up what you've said out loud. 

Hopefully taken as constructive criticism... here is what I suggest to fix things as quickly as possible in steps. 

1. Look in the mirror. Before you start identifying the players not getting it done and making the decisions that frankly should have been done many weeks ago... you have to look in the mirror first. You have to look in the mirror and so does Falvey, Lavine, their assistants, your scouts, your coaches, your analysts. All must look in the mirror and take responsibility... come to the conclusion that it was THIS operation... THIS group of people who chose the players who are not getting it done... it was THIS group of people who stuck with the players who are not getting it done. Take responsibility for this... come to the conclusion that is obvious... you were WRONG about a lot of players and you are going to be wrong again in the future... next time you are wrong... don't be so freaking stubborn and ignore the wrong right off the cliff... like time was going to cure your wrongness. 

2. You've said it out loud... you have to do something significant right now. The 26 man roster that arrives in Baltimore HAS TO be different than the one you arrived in Atlanta with. I'm not talking about a young player with options that is part of the St. Paul shuffle. It needs to be significant... so when you are huddling with your coaches and talking with the front office -- Kepler at the very least can't show up in Baltimore.  

3. Cull from the bottom and keep going until there is no bottom. It's really more than Kepler. A scapegoat isn't enough. You are going to need 40 man space and 26 man space to shake things up. Any player that are BOTH NOT helping this year and won't be back next year need to be cleared to open up space for someone else. You eat the money that Kepler and Gallo are owed.

IMO Solano and Taylor can hang for a bit but give them some different players to compete with for playing time. If they lose... clear them. Quit giving Vets the free pass to be sub par without consequence.  

4. Get serious about Byron Buxton. If he can't play CF... HE'S HURT!!! If he isn't physically able to play CF, then he probably isn't physically able to swing the bat like he could and it's showing. HE's HURT!!! Place him on the DL and rehab him until he can play CF. I don't want to hear any stories about how hard he is working and how he is playing through pain... I'm glad to hear that because I'm a Buxton fan...  but it's not justifiable to let an injury produce poor results. If he can't play CF... HE"S HURT!!! In the meantime, while Buck is on the DL... you can use the DH spot to look at some players who might actually hit the ball. 

5. Go back to what you learned in Step 1. If you were wrong about Kepler and Gallo... maybe you were wrong about Wallner, Stevenson or Chris Williams. Stevenson and Williams can get the 26 and 40 man spots of Kepler and Gallo. Wallner can take Bucks 26 man spot. It may fail... Stevenson, Wallner and WIlliams may be no better but maybe one of them keeps hitting and then you have gotten one player better. You were wrong about Kepler and Gallo... maybe you were wrong about them... Let's find out. It certainly can't be worse so what do you have to lose. 

6. Let hot players stay hot. If you have a Wallner going 8 for 8... let him try for 12 for 12. If a player is hitting get out of the way... if a player isn't hitting... get in the way. Let the players tell you what to do.  

6. Let the players honestly compete. Correa and Buxton have not been good and have not been threatened. Correa and Buxton have remained at the top of the order. I know you don't have a bunch of obvious replacements for top of the order duty but you are just letting all of your players know that Correa and Buxton can play bad and stay entrenched while a player that is hitting will stay entrenched at the bottom of the order. If I was a player... I'd start to question if performance matters in the decision making process. I'm sure it does but I'll be honest... I can't see if from my chair. 

7. Get off the script. You are not going to finesse your way through this with the information that your analysts are bringing you. A .200 Right Handed hitter against a left handed pitcher isn't going to help you. You need to find hitters... period. 

OK... You've said it out loud... Now do something... finally... Please do something. 

I agree with all of this. But is the FO there with it? It sounds like Rocco is, but, Rocco can’t alter the roster. He can alter how he plays the roster, and even if he did I don’t think it would help enough, but he can’t alter it. He can’t IL someone or trade someone or demote someone or DFA someone.It’s on the FO at this point. It always was.

[Squirrel]

3 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

 

He is more than hurt IMO.  He got back spasms just from swinging, I don't know enough to see if his swing has changed or if he is trying to avoid pain when swinging.  Sad to see him called out at home and by a mile.  I continue to point out he needs to do something to preserve or protect his body not just for baseball but for the rest of his life.  Money won't be worth the long term effects of trying to play I would say with injuries but I would say in general he should not play baseball.

Why are you quoting me from a different thread? 

[Squirrel]

36 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

 

I really hope there are, but I don't expect them. I think, in his head, he was talking about changing things behind the scenes with their approach, or preparation, or effort, or whatever. I don't at all expect them to make any moves today. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but I expect to see the same 26 guys in the dugout tomorrow that we saw yesterday.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. It’s my approach to every season.

[Riverbrian]

4 hours ago, Squirrel said:

I agree with all of this. But is the FO there with it? It sounds like Rocco is, but, Rocco can’t alter the roster. He can alter how he plays the roster, but he can’t alter it. He can’t IL someone or trade someone or demote someone or DFA someone.It’s on the FO at this point. It always was.

I agree. I was reacting to Rocco's words because he is the guy who represents the organization every night when he gives his thoughts for public consumption and it was Rocco who spoke those inspirational words. 

I've always said... if I get to the point where I'm frustrated with what is happening on the field... I'm not going to call for Rocco's head... I'll be calling for the head of Falvey instead. 

It's pointless to go after the people... you go after the people who hire the people.

Max Kepler hasn't been good but more importantly... it isn't Max who keeps himself on the 26 man roster.  It isn't Max who puts his name on the lineup card.  

I'm not going blame Max if he isn't good enough... he isn't good enough. I'm going to blame the people who keep putting him out there when he isn't good enough. 

I can play little Piano... Let me be clear... I can play a little piano. I know my chords. 

If the Chicago Symphony Orchestra asked me to play Piano and I couldn't keep up. It wouldn't be my fault. It would be the fault of whoever asked me to put on a tux and sit on that bench. It would be the fault of whoever kept me in that position instead of someone who can do what is required.  

You are right... the front office has to act.  

       

 

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

How many games did they win last year with Arraez on the roster?

Your position is a team struggling daily to score runs wouldn't benefit from having a .400+ OBP leading off?

But to address your non-point, the 2023 team with Lopez has fewer wins on June 29th than the 2022 team with Arraez did.

[John Belinski]

Waiting to see what changes happen during the next few days. With no changes the Twins are going to continue to play poorly. If the Twins stay the same then the results will stay the same and they will not be in playoffs.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Gallo won't be DFA'ed. For some reason, the front office wants to continue to make nice with Boras. A more likely scenario is sending Gallo or Kepler to the IL with some 'injury' and giving Larnach and/or Waller a shot.

DFA'ing Pagan would be a welcome move but I don't think we'll see it. Falvey and Levine will hold onto him until the bitter end.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Your position is a team struggling daily to score runs wouldn't benefit from having a .400+ OBP leading off?

But to address your non-point, the 2023 team with Lopez has fewer wins on June 29th than the 2022 team with Arraez did.

Not my point at all.....my point is that that's not what sunk the season, since he was on the team last year and they didn't win then either.....

[TopGunn#22]

Hat Tip to Riverbrian for doing an excellent job of summarizing all the frustrations we have here on TD.  I've been a Max Kepler fan since we first called him up, but for 3 years it's been beyond frustrating watching him play.  The play Ozzie Albies made by flipping the ball to Arcia to throw Kepler out at 1B just shows me Max is not giving "max" effort.  He's a LH hitter with good speed and he was thrown out easily.  He should have beaten that out.  He needs to be traded for a bag of baseballs or cut within a day.

Buxton is clearly hurt.  If he needs further surgery then shut him down and don't play him until he can do everything a ballplayer needs to.  I'd start selling.  Sonny Gray, Jorge Polanco, Vazquez, Gallo, I'd trade any or all of them for anything I could get.  As has been pointed out, what's being done now clearly isn't working and it hasn't since after the 2019 season.  Falvey and Levine have made massive blunders in trying to build this roster and Rocco has as much admitted he's at wits end trying to figure this out and watching him manage leaves me wondering that unless 300+ HR's are flying out of the ballpark, he doesn't have any idea what he's doing.   

If nothing changes after this outpouring of truth, or nothing of significance happens there will need to be a massive housecleaning this off season.  The F.O. replaced, the manager and his coaching staff replaced and a lot of dead weight players replaced.

[Schmoeman5]

Rocco. He had me rolling on that fans deserve better comment. As if he gives a rats arse. I have absolutely no idea what the solution is. But I will say that playing a hurt and slumping player constantly is not part of the solution. So let's start there.

[Teflon]

Through it all, hasn't the fishing vest been awesome, though? Never mind that you left three men stranded in scoring position in your other at-bats. That solo homer in a 4-1 loss was really something! 

[RickOShea]

19 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Rocco is all talk. Coaches are lost. They have no clue how to improve the at-bats or the team culture. None.

This meeting should have been 2-3 weeks ago.  Typical Rocco, no action til it's too late or we give up the divisional lead.

[howeda7]

3 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Hat Tip to Riverbrian for doing an excellent job of summarizing all the frustrations we have here on TD.  I've been a Max Kepler fan since we first called him up, but for 3 years it's been beyond frustrating watching him play.  The play Ozzie Albies made by flipping the ball to Arcia to throw Kepler out at 1B just shows me Max is not giving "max" effort.  He's a LH hitter with good speed and he was thrown out easily.  He should have beaten that out.  He needs to be traded for a bag of baseballs or cut within a day.

Buxton is clearly hurt.  If he needs further surgery then shut him down and don't play him until he can do everything a ballplayer needs to.  I'd start selling.  Sonny Gray, Jorge Polanco, Vazquez, Gallo, I'd trade any or all of them for anything I could get.  As has been pointed out, what's being done now clearly isn't working and it hasn't since after the 2019 season.  Falvey and Levine have made massive blunders in trying to build this roster and Rocco has as much admitted he's at wits end trying to figure this out and watching him manage leaves me wondering that unless 300+ HR's are flying out of the ballpark, he doesn't have any idea what he's doing.   

If nothing changes after this outpouring of truth, or nothing of significance happens there will need to be a massive housecleaning this off season.  The F.O. replaced, the manager and his coaching staff replaced and a lot of dead weight players replaced.

Vazquez is not tradable with this contract. Polanco is not tradable while he's hurt. Gallo has zero trade value. The only valuable trade piece they have is Sonny Gray and extremely marginal pieces like Solano. Going into "sell" mode isn't going to net much.

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Vazquez is not tradable with this contract. Polanco is not tradable while he's hurt. Gallo has zero trade value. The only valuable trade piece they have is Sonny Gray and extremely marginal pieces like Solano. Going into "sell" mode isn't going to net much.

So don't sell. But don't buy, either. DFA a couple, IL another, take peanuts or nothing for another, put the young guys in and see what happens.

[insagt1]

ok--Mike, its clear you want to defend the Arraez trade (and I don't) so we have a respectful difference of opinion here.

Twins THIS SEASON, with a lineup full of free swingers who can't hit the ball would certainly benefit from a guy who does get on base (a lot) and was a sparkplug of sorts while he was a Twin. Twins gambled that they could do better with a starting pitcher (still mostly untested) to bolster their rotation rather than a guy who plays everyday, makes regular contact, won a batting title and was a real fan favorite. That trade, IMHO started the spiral downhill, although we didn't know it at the time maybe because the FO couldn't possibly have known just how badly the remaining hitters were going to perform. That was my humble point. That trade lit the fuse for me.

Arraez was not a 'spare part' (although some have tried to make him so by focusing not on his assets but rather his weaknesses) and i dare say probably every team in MLB would happily find a place on their 40 man for him. Is he a 'complete' player? Probably not...but honestly who is these days? Right now, the Twins lineup is broken badly. It is dysfunctional and in need of a major overhaul. And it begins with being able to not strike out over 10 times every single blasted night. He'd look good in our lineup and I wish he were still here. You clearly disagree, but do you disagree just to be disagreeable? To justify the trade? You don't like Arraez? You don't like what I say? For years I have always felt (as do many) that its dangerous to trade an everyday player (let alone a batting champ) for a part time pitcher, unless the pitcher is a bonafide established star. Even then, that pitcher is just one pitch away from TJS these days

We can't change what happened last year. But we can this year. And I hope they do make adjustments. The FO has made some miscalculations and they also gambled that the guys they have would be much better than they are. Buxton and Correa have been huge disappointments. Kepler and Gallo have been pretty useless. Vazquez not the guy we hoped for. Kirilloff has lost his power. And so on.

One player isn't going to transform this team. But that one trade signaled (for me) a change in direction and philosophy from the Twins FO for 2023. They must have felt they would have a better chance to win without Arraez and with Lopez. We'll see. So far, I'm not impressed, but we'll see. 40-42 isn't where we wanted to be, is it? Would be interesting to take a poll of Twins followers to ask if they would undo that trade, if they could. Or did they agree with it in the first place. Has Arraez 'saved' the Marlins? No, but he clearly has made them better collectively. They are a playoff contender and they are better than the Twins, who are only contending, so far, because of the putrid AL Central.

Anyway, my thoughts. For better or worse.☺️

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, insagt1 said:

ok--Mike, its clear you want to defend the Arraez trade (and I don't) so we have a respectful difference of opinion here.

Twins THIS SEASON, with a lineup full of free swingers who can't hit the ball would certainly benefit from a guy who does get on base (a lot) and was a sparkplug of sorts while he was a Twin. Twins gambled that they could do better with a starting pitcher (still mostly untested) to bolster their rotation rather than a guy who plays everyday, makes regular contact, won a batting title and was a real fan favorite. That trade, IMHO started the spiral downhill, although we didn't know it at the time maybe because the FO couldn't possibly have known just how badly the remaining hitters were going to perform. That was my humble point. That trade lit the fuse for me.

Arraez was not a 'spare part' (although some have tried to make him so by focusing not on his assets but rather his weaknesses) and i dare say probably every team in MLB would happily find a place on their 40 man for him. Is he a 'complete' player? Probably not...but honestly who is these days? Right now, the Twins lineup is broken badly. It is dysfunctional and in need of a major overhaul. And it begins with being able to not strike out over 10 times every single blasted night. He'd look good in our lineup and I wish he were still here. You clearly disagree, but do you disagree just to be disagreeable? To justify the trade? You don't like Arraez? You don't like what I say? For years I have always felt (as do many) that its dangerous to trade an everyday player (let alone a batting champ) for a part time pitcher, unless the pitcher is a bonafide established star. Even then, that pitcher is just one pitch away from TJS these days

We can't change what happened last year. But we can this year. And I hope they do make adjustments. The FO has made some miscalculations and they also gambled that the guys they have would be much better than they are. Buxton and Correa have been huge disappointments. Kepler and Gallo have been pretty useless. Vazquez not the guy we hoped for. Kirilloff has lost his power. And so on.

One player isn't going to transform this team. But that one trade signaled (for me) a change in direction and philosophy from the Twins FO for 2023. They must have felt they would have a better chance to win without Arraez and with Lopez. We'll see. So far, I'm not impressed, but we'll see. 40-42 isn't where we wanted to be, is it? Would be interesting to take a poll of Twins followers to ask if they would undo that trade, if they could. Or did they agree with it in the first place. Has Arraez 'saved' the Marlins? No, but he clearly has made them better collectively. They are a playoff contender and they are better than the Twins, who are only contending, so far, because of the putrid AL Central.

Anyway, my thoughts. For better or worse.☺️

I think it's fair to dislike the trade ... But who pitches instead? And if he's worse, they need the bullpen more .

They gambled polanco or Gordon or Julien plus Lopez was better than Arraez and ?. I think that was a good gamble. I understand why others disagree, but they never mention who the other pitcher would be, or seem to take that into account. 

[Riverbrian]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:09 AM, wabene said:

 

On 6/29/2023 at 9:49 AM, chpettit19 said:

 

I really hope there are, but I don't expect them. I think, in his head, he was talking about changing things behind the scenes with their approach, or preparation, or effort, or whatever. I don't at all expect them to make any moves today. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but I expect to see the same 26 guys in the dugout tomorrow that we saw yesterday.

 

We've seen the lineup and you were correct.

Rocco appears to have remained firm and will stay on script with his game plans. 

The message appears to be. Play better... I'm going to keep doing what i do... you all play better and show everyone that I was right. 

It worked last night. 

[ashbury]

46 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

We've seen the lineup and you were correct.

Rocco appears to have remained firm and will stay on script with his game plans. 

The message appears to be. Play better... I'm going to keep doing what i do... you all play better and show everyone that I was right. 

It worked last night. 

After last night I am ready to give the front office a contract extension and proclaim Rocco as Manager For Life.

[NotAboutWinning]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

After last night I am ready to give the front office a contract extension and proclaim Rocco as Manager For Life.

If the job description is "get out of the players way"!

[RickOShea]

1 hour ago, NotAboutWinning said:

If the job description is "get out of the players way"!

Last night was a mini, micro sasmple.  let's see how things unfold.  It still doesn't change many of the fundamental mistakes by Baldelli.

[Craig Arko]

1 hour ago, NotAboutWinning said:

If the job description is "get out of the players way"!

This would be a good approach for management in all walks of life. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Rocco's take still seems like a bunch of hot air and nothing more. Players holding themselves accountable. Leading film study before the games. Ummm, yeah, that's great. WTF is the role of the hitting coach then? I'm done with Popkins. Should've been fired weeks ago. These last two games are further proof.

[Irishman]

28 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Rocco's take still seems like a bunch of hot air and nothing more. Players holding themselves accountable. Leading film study before the games. Ummm, yeah, that's great. WTF is the role of the hitting coach then? I'm done with Popkins. Should've been fired weeks ago. These last two games are further proof.

Agreed.  Twins bats are joke.   FO, manager and Popkins need to be gone!   

[stringer bell]

Okay, for the nine-game road trip, the Twins won four of nine. Between Baltimore and Atlanta, they might win 200 games this year, so a lot of teams going to their parks will win two or less. We all know this is an imperfect team, plagued by strikeouts and way too dependent on home runs (only modestly above average in homers). The roster is flawed in those respects. There really aren't any contact-first athletic players ready to ascend.

Correa and Buxton both took much better plate appearances in the Baltimore series and especially Buxton could have had a lot more success with a little luck. Outside of another series against Baltimore, the schedule gets much easier for the rest of the month. If they play any semblance of well for the next four weeks (with time off for the AS Game), they could put some daylight between themselves and the teams that are following them. 

I saw signs in Baltimore of better at bats. I'm willing to see if the improvement continues. 

[insagt1]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:04 PM, Mike Sixel said:

I think it's fair to dislike the trade ... But who pitches instead? And if he's worse, they need the bullpen more .

They gambled polanco or Gordon or Julien plus Lopez was better than Arraez and ?. I think that was a good gamble. I understand why others disagree, but they never mention who the other pitcher would be, or seem to take that into account. 

fair enough. I guess we'll have to see. Logic would dictate: Arraez is not going to bat .400 and Lopez won't be winning the Cy Young!!