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Rule 5 SS Potential Targets


Steve71
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We all know the Twins need help at SS.  Currently they have 2 roster spots open on their 40-man roster.

Might they potentially take a SS in the Rule 5, whenever it eventually occurs?

3 players that might be of interest:

Leonel Valera, LAD

Delmon Perez, Cards

Livon Soto, LAA

Don't know too much about these prospects other that what I can read on the interweb.  Any thoughts?  Might the Twins take a strong young defensive SS and put up with some hitting weaknesses, as opposed to Simmons at a much higher price but also suffering from hitting deficiencies?

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No way they take a middle infielder imo. 

They will sign or trade for a mlb starter at short even if it its a stopgap or low ceiling move, there is no where to stash a middle infielder (which is harder in the best of situations).

New SS, Donaldson, Polanco, Arraez, Sano, Kiriloff, Gordon, Miranda, Lewis, Martin all potentially in the infield mix even if a true SS isn't.

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Steve71 said:

We all know the Twins need help at SS.  Currently they have 2 roster spots open on their 40-man roster.

Might they potentially take a SS in the Rule 5, whenever it eventually occurs?

3 players that might be of interest:

Leonel Valera, LAD

Delmon Perez, Cards

Livon Soto, LAA

Don't know too much about these prospects other that what I can read on the interweb.  Any thoughts?  Might the Twins take a strong young defensive SS and put up with some hitting weaknesses, as opposed to Simmons at a much higher price but also suffering from hitting deficiencies?

Andrelton Simmons had a terrible 2021 at the plate, but it's a mistake to think that that is some kind of floor for how bad a hitter who's not yet ready can truly be.  Simmons hit an empty .223, but at least it was .223. and in the majors.  Two of the guys you named hit about that, but at high-A - they could end up hitting an empty .123 in the majors if rushed.  Of the three, Delvin* Perez has the most polished resume, hitting .265 at AA, but still pretty emptyish.  It would be a total bottom-feeder, rebuild-mode move to take him, though.  And I think you'd still have to sign a cheap/bad veteran SS just to avoid having no alternative at all if the guy you draft simply melts down from the pressure - do we have roster space on the 26-man for two subpar shortstops in 2022, granting that one has potential to be sort of average a couple years further down the road?

 

* Delvin, not Delmon.  PLEASE, not another Delmon! :)

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So is this "Sosa" the Cardinal SS NOT the Sosa who basically beat out Paul DeJong at SS ??  Or is it a different Sosa entirely ??

Speaking of DeJong, shortstops like him and Adelberto Mondesi can be acquired via trade very inexpensively.  I'd "consider" a Rule 5 guy.  But I'd rather give up a little somethin' for a Mondesi or DeJong.  

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8 hours ago, Steve71 said:

We all know the Twins need help at SS.  Currently they have 2 roster spots open on their 40-man roster.

Might they potentially take a SS in the Rule 5, whenever it eventually occurs?

3 players that might be of interest:

Leonel Valera, LAD

Delmon Perez, Cards

Livon Soto, LAA

Don't know too much about these prospects other that what I can read on the interweb.  Any thoughts?  Might the Twins take a strong young defensive SS and put up with some hitting weaknesses, as opposed to Simmons at a much higher price but also suffering from hitting deficiencies?

 

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3 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

Go with one of our prospects for this year.  Give them 1/2 a season and if they can't play at MLB standards let them go and move on to the next we have 3-4 SS's drafted by the Twins in the last 8 years.  Why waste time or money from the outside.  Let these guys sink of swim now.

This sure is a take. If our top prospects can't handle having their development rushed, let's discard them?

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1 hour ago, gman said:

I would think that Palacios at our own Wichita Wind Surge club would be  a better fielder and hitter at this point than others in our system for a year gap coverage. Why can't we give our own guys a shot some times?

Agreed.  Palacios is a better choice than a Rule-5 pick because he would be simply put on the 40-man like any other prospect and can be brought up and sent down at will, whereas a Rule-5 guy has to stay on the major league squad all year or be disposed of. 

It's possible that Delvin Perez is a little bit better fielder than Palacios, but IMO not enough to justify the roster issues he'd create, and Palacios seems to have considerably more pop in the bat.  Palacios is also 2 years older than Perez, which could be a double-edged sword for forecasting purposes.  (OTOH I admire the Cardinals organization so taking one of their guys has some appeal.  On the third hand, if they aren't protecting him, why should we covet him?)

Bottom line, if you're not adding Palacios to the 40-man last month, why are you drafting a different but similar guy in Rule-5?

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1 hour ago, gman said:

I would think that Palacios at our own Wichita Wind Surge club would be  a better fielder and hitter at this point than others in our system for a year gap coverage. Why can't we give our own guys a shot some times?

I could roll with Palacios if push comes to shove. 

I actually might even prefer him to Simmons. Not that I'd expect great things, but I'll take potential over floor if the team isn't serious about competing.

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3 hours ago, Old fox said:

I prefer bring up Lewis or Gordon or Martin as to wasting a rule. 5 draft slot on the 25 man roster.

I wouldn’t rush Lewis or Martin. If you think they’ll be ready at some point this year, I’d roll with Gordon as the stop gap, but I like the suggestion by @gman to roll with Palacios. That would also keep Gordon in the Super Utility roll that he seems better suited for.

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3 hours ago, Scott51104 said:

"(OTOH I admire the Cardinals organization so taking one of their guys has some appeal.  On the third hand, if they aren't protecting him, why should we covet him?)"

This is similar to the critique I received yesterday from my bridge partner.

You went third-hand high again without thinking, eh?

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I'm not opposed to giving some else's prospect a chance, but if they are taking an infielder, he had better have a really good glove at SS. And he's not going to be starting on this squad.

I lean more towards taking a shot at a pitcher to stash in the pen and see if they can mold him into something, like they did with Pressly. With the amount of replaceable relievers the Twins tend to keep in the pen, I don't see why not.

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1 hour ago, Danchat said:

With the amount of replaceable relievers the Twins tend to keep in the pen, I don't see why not.

Problem with a Rule-5 pick is that he's not "replaceable" in the sense you mean.  No two-week vacay in beautiful scenic St Paul to rest up while another guy comes across the river.

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19 hours ago, Unwinder said:

This sure is a take. If our top prospects can't handle having their development rushed, let's discard them?

How are prospects in the system since 2014, 2017 and 2019 considered "rushed"?   I am talking first round which I assumed are very talented?

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19 hours ago, Sconnie said:

I wouldn’t rush Lewis or Martin. If you think they’ll be ready at some point this year, I’d roll with Gordon as the stop gap, but I like the suggestion by @gman to roll with Palacios. That would also keep Gordon in the Super Utility roll that he seems better suited for.

Is a first round draft pick in 2017 considered "rushed"

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34 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

Is a first round draft pick in 2017 considered "rushed"

You mean Royce Lewis who last played 33 games in AA in 2019? Yes, putting him in the opening day MLB SS after not playing for 2+ years in AA would be a rush. He might be ready for callup in 2022, maybe before the trade deadline, but banking on him to be a starter opening day would be a rush.

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12 hours ago, Danchat said:

I'm not opposed to giving some else's prospect a chance, but if they are taking an infielder, he had better have a really good glove at SS. And he's not going to be starting on this squad.

I lean more towards taking a shot at a pitcher to stash in the pen and see if they can mold him into something, like they did with Pressly. With the amount of replaceable relievers the Twins tend to keep in the pen, I don't see why not.

Looking at the state of the rotation and the milestones ahead for this offseason, if there's an MLB rule 5 draft this offseason, I don't think they can afford to stash anyone on the 26 man. Whoever they pick would have to contribute meaningfully.

There was an article on TD that gleaned a nugget from Falvine on the potential for a non-traditional pitching staff in 2022. That seems more likely now than it did in August. If the lockout lasts until February there won't be much time to negotiate trades. There's no good, realistic, free agents left to sign (maybe iglesias or Pineda, but really... meh). 

If we were to look at the roster construction through that lens, there may not be much salary added yet. They could come in with an 85-90M payroll in 2022 just for lack of options. They'd need almost every pitcher to regularly pitch multiple innings, but only a couple can pitch twice through the lineup regularly and none of them can get you into the third time through the lineup. No Looguy, no DH - 14 pitchers, 12 hitters and every pitcher but your closer and fireman pitches 2+ innings... they could be cobble it together and be competitive if the exposure limitations of the pitchers improves their outcomes.

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No way do they take any of them, unless they really think they know something no one else does.  First, if  team exposed them clearly they have little faith in them at a premium position.  The fact you need to keep them the full year means they will have to put up with what they are doing or just waste the chance of having a pen guy picked. 

I do not know the internal discussions of the team and their thoughts of Marin or Lewis.  I know most here think Lewis will not break with team, and that is likely, and Martin did not play much SS I do not think once we took him.  That may have been because he was trade addition and they did not want to take off who they had and maybe they will use him going forward.  However, I think either of them would be better to try out over a rule 5 pick.  If they fail we can send them down, you cannot do that with rule 5. 

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On 12/5/2021 at 11:18 PM, Steve71 said:

We all know the Twins need help at SS.  Currently they have 2 roster spots open on their 40-man roster.

Might they potentially take a SS in the Rule 5, whenever it eventually occurs?

3 players that might be of interest:

Leonel Valera, LAD

Delmon Perez, Cards

Livon Soto, LAA

Don't know too much about these prospects other that what I can read on the interweb.  Any thoughts?  Might the Twins take a strong young defensive SS and put up with some hitting weaknesses, as opposed to Simmons at a much higher price but also suffering from hitting deficiencies?

Valera - Decent hitter with a little pop and a + fielder. I like him but it would being adding another project to what we have in the minors, now.

Perez - I think an overall better hitter than Valera with better speed and still + fielding.

Livon - The only one I would say hard pass as he reminds me (and his metrics say) he is similar to Simmons who didn't do that great for us last year. He may need to develop just to get to Simmons status.

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I doubt a Rule 5 guy would be your starting shortstop, and the Twins, right now, need a stopgap between now and tomorrow. The Twins are even facing a problem right now. Who is the starting shortstop at AAA St. Paul. Palacios, Lewis, Martin? Do you give up on any and make a moe permanent position change? Does Javier go to AA just because it is his next step?

 

How many guys like J.T. Riddle and Matt Magill do the Twins sign for 2022 as a stopgap or backup if Gordon and whomever doesn't cover SS for the Twins?

 

Rule 5 picks work best for rebuilding teams, adding someone who can play in a losing environment and be that 25th/26th player with some skillset that might develop into more in the 2023 or 2024 season at worse.

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