"Resting" players

[USAFChief]

Next year, I hope Rocco (and the front office) recognizes the futility of "resting" players during the regular season.

 

Rocco has given players way too much scheduled time off, to what benefit? All you do is willingly hold your better players out of too many games.

 

It does little to nothing in terms of keeping them healthy, or "rested."

 

All it does is intentionally reduce the number of games played by your best lineup.

[yarnivek1972]

It certainly hasn’t kept anyone healthy.

 

Buxton, Cave, Rosario, Gonzalez and Cruz are all out. Although it sounds like Cruz should be back Tuesday. Rosario and Kepler are nursing injuries/illness.

[strumdatjaguar]

Maybe he should have rested them more.  I hope the post-season chances aren't unraveling with this confluence of injuries. 

[notoriousgod71]

 

Next year, I hope Rocco (and the front office) recognizes the futility of "resting" players during the regular season.

Rocco has given players way too much scheduled time off, to what benefit? All you do is willingly hold your better players out of too many games.

It does little to nothing in terms of keeping them healthy, or "rested."

All it does is intentionally reduce the number of games played by your best lineup.

 

I also get very annoyed with the "left due to precautionary reasons" statement. You're either hurt or you're not. It seems like someone could sneeze out on the field and immediately be removed to see if he needs TJS or something.

 

I'm hoping some of these guys could play their ailments but it's a new generation, even though I am younger than some players.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

On one hand, the offense put up historic numbers this year, which I personally feel was helped by the mental and physical rest provided by the scheduled off days.

 

On the other hand, here we are at the end, and seems like everyone is limping to the end anyway.

[SwainZag]

They are on pace to win 100 games, they set the MLB HR record and players all over the lineup are having career years.  We not assuming any of that is due to giving the players some extra rest during the year?

[Platoon]

I truly did not understand the LaMarre AB. As I don't dwell on every word the talking heads spew forth, maybe I missed a reason someone like Sano could not have hit? If the only reason was to "rest" Sano, then I think Rocco needs to reevaluate that process. One should remeber that Sano has had a considerable amount of rest already this season.

[Platoon]

On one hand, the offense put up historic numbers this year, which I personally feel was helped by the mental and physical rest provided by the scheduled off days.

On the other hand, here we are at the end, and seems like everyone is limping to the end anyway.

While I liked this, I do wonder whether all those numbers are also the result of the some of our youth finally maturing, a much different approach at the plate, and the new Maxflite baseball that MLB and AAA now launch, er I mean use.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

While I liked this, I do wonder whether all those numbers are also the result of the some of our youth finally maturing, a much different approach at the plate, and the new Maxflite baseball that MLB and AAA now launch, er I mean use.

Good point. I think a little bit of everything.

[jkcarew]

I think when you have the depth that this team has, you take advantage and spread the playing time around HOPING that there’s a payoff in terms of health by the end of the season. Doesn’t really seam that there’s been much of a payoff. Or, maybe the assumptions have just changed...and players only play when everything is perfect now...and it would have been even worse without the rest? I do think at some point, all the ‘precautionary’ rest and time off results in less, not more, productive time on the field for a given player.

 

And I think pinch-hitting Ryan LaMarre is weird. Maybe the chip they’ve implanted in Sano indicated a fever of 98.7. He’s day-to-day.

[USAFChief]

They are on pace to win 100 games, they set the MLB HR record and players all over the lineup are having career years. We not assuming any of that is due to giving the players some extra rest during the year?

Or perhaps they've cheated themselves out of even better stats by not playing the players primarily responsible for accumulating them.

 

Injuries are another story, of course. Although it's often a fine line there, too. But I generally defer to the manager, trainer, and players to know when to play through owies, and when not to. And it happens a lot, nobody goes through a 162 game schedule perfectly healthy all the time.

 

But this business of scheduled days off? Folly, iyam.

[Dantes929]

 

Or perhaps they've cheated themselves out of even better stats by not playing the players primarily responsible for accumulating them.

Injuries are another story, of course. Although it's often a fine line there, too. But I generally defer to the manager, trainer, and players to know when to play through owies, and when not to. And it happens a lot, nobody goes through a 162 game schedule perfectly healthy all the time.

But this business of scheduled days off? Folly, iyam.

Who are we talking about here?     The only ones with OPS less than .740 is Astudillo.    Gonzalez is at .743 but that was after a slow start and if not given those chances to keep sharp might not have carried us last month.    I'm pretty sure you want to keep Garver fresh by not catching him every day.     Who has had significant playing time that you would want to eliminate?

[howieramone2]

 

Next year, I hope Rocco (and the front office) recognizes the futility of "resting" players during the regular season.

Rocco has given players way too much scheduled time off, to what benefit? All you do is willingly hold your better players out of too many games.

It does little to nothing in terms of keeping them healthy, or "rested."

All it does is intentionally reduce the number of games played by your best lineup.

Rocco and the FO won't change a thing concerning resting players. What you're seeing is advanced, advanced metrics put into practice. TR during his first stint as GM was known as an innovator, you're seeing basically the same thing from Rocco.

[Seth Stohs]

Imagine how many injuries/aches they would have if not given rest... no way to know for sure on any of it, but I will take the results of this season as encouraging!

[In My La Z boy]

I recognize it was Bert & Jim Kaat talking but they both made the point on Berrios that putting him out on 3 days rest would have been more beneficial than giving him the extra day at 5 days rest going into the RedSox game. I do get the "recovery" metrics of today's game and won't argue the statistical merits but this is developing into a pattern for Jose. 2 seasons in a row now for him. On the outfield - ouch..I think everyone now wishes we still had Jaylin, and not Dyson. That may prove to hurt. Who'd have thought we'd be so far down the totem pole on outfielders in September.

[nicksaviking]

 

Imagine how many injuries/aches they would have if not given rest... no way to know for sure on any of it, but I will take the results of this season as encouraging!

 

Yeah, there looks like a correlation, but only one year of results is probably too small to draw any conclusions at this time. 

 

But yeah, an offensive surge unlike anything we've seen before, something in the range of a 100 win season and an emphasis on good depth on the bench because of the plan to rest players. I'm a fan and I hope they continue doing it.

[Number3]

The Pineda fiasco is the camel's back straw. Twins were not going a long way in the playoffs anyway and they have been fortunate in the injury category until now. I hope they can at least avoid sweeps (by the other team) in the next 2 series and then limp home against Tigers, WSox and Royals. The best teams finish strong. Twins started very strong, have managed to hold their own lately in a weak Central and now will probably simply hold on for dear life.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

Unnecessarily resting your best players is stupid.

 

 

[jjswol]

Right on USAFChief.

[howieramone2]

 

The Pineda fiasco is the camel's back straw. Twins were not going a long way in the playoffs anyway and they have been fortunate in the injury category until now. I hope they can at least avoid sweeps (by the other team) in the next 2 series and then limp home against Tigers, WSox and Royals. The best teams finish strong. Twins started very strong, have managed to hold their own lately in a weak Central and now will probably simply hold on for dear life.

Kirby Puckett once said, the way to win the division is to win early, and then hold on for dear life.

[USAFChief]

 

Imagine how many injuries/aches they would have if not given rest... no way to know for sure on any of it, but I will take the results of this season as encouraging!

How many times does Francona willingly keep Lindor out of the lineup? 

 

 

[blindeke]

 

I truly did not understand the LaMarre AB. As I don't dwell on every word the talking heads spew forth, maybe I missed a reason someone like Sano could not have hit? If the only reason was to "rest" Sano, then I think Rocco needs to reevaluate that process. One should remeber that Sano has had a considerable amount of rest already this season.

 

Per the Strib today, Sano had some back problems and they were not going to use him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think this is the kind of thing we need more than one season to evaluate and even then we likely won't know if it helps (but the Twins might).

 

Resting players doesn't make injuries disappear. But if it reduces the chance of injury by, say 10%, then it's a significant step in the right direction.

 

We wouldn't even notice a 10% drop in injuries but after a few years, the Twins may be able to quantify the difference.

 

I think just writing off the idea as "well, people still get injured" misses the point of the exercise. And I'm not even saying rest is actually working - though I suspect it is on some level - only that we have no idea if it's working.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Unnecessarily resting your best players is stupid.

Sure it is. 

 

The problem with this statement is that we have no idea if it's "unnecessary". This isn't only a binary situation of "injured/healthy", it's more complex and nuanced than that and, as casual spectators without a mountain of data in front of us, we cannot say whether rest is helping, hurting, or neutral.

[rdehring]

 

I truly did not understand the LaMarre AB. As I don't dwell on every word the talking heads spew forth, maybe I missed a reason someone like Sano could not have hit? If the only reason was to "rest" Sano, then I think Rocco needs to reevaluate that process. One should remeber that Sano has had a considerable amount of rest already this season.

Sano is dealing with a back injury and wasn't available.

[Dantes929]

 

Sure it is. 

 

The problem with this statement is that we have no idea if it's "unnecessary". This isn't only a binary situation of "injured/healthy", it's more complex and nuanced than that and, as casual spectators without a mountain of data in front of us, we cannot say whether rest is helping, hurting, or neutral.

Exactly.    It can be about mental and physical fatigue without actually resulting in injury.   I am convinced Morneau would have another MVP and the Twins would not have needed game 163 against Chicago if Morneau hadn't played 163 games along with the all star game and home run derby.    I can't prove anything definitively but his Sept OPS of .696 was the only month under .815 the whole year.   To me he looked fatigued.    If you look at his career his last two months drop significantly.    Mauer's last two months career totals remain strong and in the three closest races in baseball history he last two months were fantastic.   Morneau always played, Mauer got a lot of rest.    Doesn't prove anything of course but I don;t see anything in this season proving rest doesn't help.   Lindor is 25 years old and hasn't played the full season due to injury..   Different than late 20's and different than weighing what Sano weighs.    Again, who are our guys playing too much and who are the ones not playing enough?

[MN_ExPat]

How many times does Francona willingly keep Lindor out of the lineup?

 

Different situation though. Without Lindor, Cleveland is probably sunk. Without Cruz, the Twins might only hit one HR instead of 2 or 3 in a game.

[MN_ExPat]

This is just as frustrating as when the Twins would automatically sit Mauer out after playing a night game when they followed that up with a day game.

 

Unless a guy is injured or hurting to the point of further risking injury, you don't sit them. Especially your better players. It makes no sense to limit yourself purposely for the sake of giving a guy a "rest day." GTFO with that millennial nonsense.

I understand the frustration, I want to see the best guys out there every game as well. However, players need days off as much for the mental refresher as the physical.

[Shaitan]

And what's the deal with batting helmets and shin guards?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Exactly.    It can be about mental and physical fatigue without actually resulting in injury.   I am convinced Morneau would have another MVP and the Twins would not have needed game 163 against Chicago if Morneau hadn't played 163 games along with the all star game and home run derby.    I can't prove anything definitively but his Sept OPS of .696 was the only month under .815 the whole year.   To me he looked fatigued.    If you look at his career his last two months drop significantly.    Mauer's last two months career totals remain strong and in the three closest races in baseball history he last two months were fantastic.   Morneau always played, Mauer got a lot of rest.    Doesn't prove anything of course but I don;t see anything in this season proving rest doesn't help.   Lindor is 25 years old and hasn't played the full season due to injury..   Different than late 20's and different than weighing what Sano weighs.    Again, who are our guys playing too much and who are the ones not playing enough?

Morneau even admitted to this during a broadcast early in the season. He said he wished this kind of rest-focused program was in place during his playing years because he wore himself down and underperformed the second half of most seasons.

 

And, looking at the data, Justin isn't just feeding us a line. His career second half OPS is .075 lower than his first half OPS.

 

And yikes, it gets worse the more you drill down. Here are his OPS numbers by month: .849, .912, .800, .881, .777, .752.

 

Morneau was an average player when the Twins needed him most.