Front Page: "Unwritten Rule" Gets Max Kepler Hit By A Pitch

[jimbo92107]

How about they just play the damn game and not deliberately try to injure each other? I don't buy tickets to watch umpires come center stage, and I don't buy tickets to watch grumpy men express their false machismo. Most of all, I don't buy "rules" that are so shameful that brave men are too chicken to write them down on paper. 

 

I believe in specialties and division of labor. Let boxers and MMA guys punch and kick each other for money. Baseball players are supposed to play baseball, period. We don't need them to remind us of the good old days of barbaric social ineptitude. 

[BD57]

 

So your issue is how sportsmanship is enforced in baseball?

 

Do you agree with the unwritten rule that you don't swing at a 3-0 pitch late in a blowout? And do you believe that's an appropriate display of sportsmanship?

 

I'm honestly curious what people think on some of this.

 

Rather than the whole "unwritten rules" business, let's just give teams the right to 'call it" ... let the Ranger say "enough, we can call off the game now."

 

But they won't do that, will they?

 

So instead, we're supposed to go through this charade of "playing out the game," even though the team that's ahead has to "really not try 100%" to get hits and score runs.

 

Question ... why didn't the Ranger hitters just go up and swing & miss at every pitch at the end, to get the game over with?  Why were they still trying to get hits and score runs, if the game was over?

 

If Kepler had been hit in the head, or on the wrist, and been injured so he'd miss time, this would be a whole lot bigger deal.

 

The "unwritten rules" are all about "pride."  Yeah, well ... "excessive pride" causes all sorts of problems. 

 

Don't want to give up hits on 3-0 counts?  Throw strikes. 

[Nine of twelve]

 

  If they are still playing full force why can't both teams?   I mean otherwise just have a slaughter rule and call the game.     

If the Rangers had told the Twins they were going to stop trying to win the game then the Twins would also have stopped trying and Rocco would have told Cave not to try to get a hit. But since that didn't happen Cave was justified in doing what he did. And the Rangers' pitcher and manager should have been ejected

[IndianaTwin]

The bigger concern in my mind, at least based on what the radio guys discussed tonight, is not that Cave swung but that Cave apparently missed a take sign.

 

Dude -- if you're worried about playing time, missing signs ain't going to help you. 

[mikelink45]

 

Notice that Bremer and Smalley were surprised Cave swung 3 and 0. They know the "rule." Tommy Watkins knows the "rule"--that's why he said something to Cave at first base. Cave knows the "rule"--he likely had the count wrong in his mind at that time, so he swung the bat at the pitch. 

Who cares?  This is just foolish.  A batter should go for a hit no matter the score

 

[BD57]

Interesting Article about "blowouts"  .... https://sports.yahoo.com/yankees-manager-aaron-boone-would-favor-mlb-mercy-rule-and-hes-not-off-base-004158370.html?fbclid=IwAR1s3AJZuQmAo5VpCYgetvbxtpWonEGRpcQwCef5t2t6ZnP1WvYJgYkvm0Q

[Riverbrian]

Back when I was coaching. I remember being down 10 zip or something ridiculous like that. 

 

The other team had a runner on 3B with nobody out and my pitcher uncorked a wild pitch and the opposing coach held up the stop sign, yelling stay stay stay, freezing the runner in his tracks when he would have easily scored. 

 

I called time... Walked right past my pitcher and over to the opposing coach in the third base box and said "I appreciate what you are doing but please don't do that. I'm telling my kids to compete regardless of the score, I'm telling them that I want them to try to win the rest of the game and I'd appreciate it if you do the same so it means something if we do, Besides... I consider holding up your runner more embarrassing then the actual wild pitch... or the scoreboard". 

 

I think we ended up losing the game 84 to 1 but I'll do that every time. 

 

If 15 year-old baseball players can handle it... so can grown men making large amounts of cash. 

 

There is never a time to throw at a batter. 

[Platoon]

Seems a generational gap here. Lol. I had the opposite experience in coaching a Legion game. We were completely outmanned by a team that had been in the state high school tourney that year. They were up ten, we had one AB left before the "mercy rule" kicked in. They tried to squeeze a run in from third. I didn't go tell that coach to keep trying, I told him to look at the damn scoreboard! And I asked him what the hell he thought he was doing. Some here think an unwritten rule is poor sportsmanship. So what is piling on? While I give Cave credit for apologizing, he was an idiot. And I bet that's exactly what he got told at 1B. Does anyone remember a few years ago when someone on the Twins did something comparatively stupid, the next guy got plunked. He didn't go after the pitcher, he went into the dugout after his teammate. Well played! I went to one of my 11 year old grandsons games this summer. The other team was far more talented, and rightfully was overwhelmingly ahead. Easily past a ten run lead. And they just kept stealing base after base, and scoring on passed balls. The only thing those opposing players learned that day was the unwritten rule of arrogance.

[BD57]

 

Seems a generational gap here. Lol. I had the opposite experience in coaching a Legion game. We were completely outmanned by a team that had been in the state high school tourney that year. They were up ten, we had one AB left before the "mercy rule" kicked in. They tried to squeeze a run in from third. I didn't go tell that coach to keep trying, I told him to look at the damn scoreboard! And I asked him what the hell he thought he was doing. Some here think an unwritten rule is poor sportsmanship. So what is piling on? While I give Cave credit for apologizing, he was an idiot. And I bet that's exactly what he got told at 1B. Does anyone remember a few years ago when someone on the Twins did something comparatively stupid, the next guy got plunked. He didn't go after the pitcher, he went into the dugout after his teammate. Well played! I went to one of my 11 year old grandsons games this summer. The other team was far more talented, and rightfully was overwhelmingly ahead. Easily past a ten run lead. And they just kept stealing base after base, and scoring on passed balls. The only thing those opposing players learned that day was the unwritten rule of arrogance.

 

World of difference between 11 year olds, where there can be wild disparities in talent, and MLB, where there isn't.

 

Plunking Kepler because the guy before him swung at a 3-0 pitch is ridiculous.  Throw at Cave next time you get the chance, if it's that big a deal - but it shouldn't be.

 

The Rangers were down 8 because "they earned it."  That's not the Twins fault.   If they wanted to walk off the field and say "no mas," that's what they should do - otherwise, don't throw a pitch and expect the batter not to try.

[gunnarthor]

 

Back when I was coaching. I remember being down 10 zip or something ridiculous like that. 

 

The other team had a runner on 3B with nobody out and my pitcher uncorked a wild pitch and the opposing coach held up the stop sign, yelling stay stay stay, freezing the runner in his tracks when he would have easily scored. 

 

I called time... Walked right past my pitcher and over to the opposing coach in the third base box and said "I appreciate what you are doing but please don't do that. I'm telling my kids to compete regardless of the score, I'm telling them that I want them to try to win the rest of the game and I'd appreciate it if you do the same so it means something if we do, Besides... I consider holding up your runner more embarrassing then the actual wild pitch... or the scoreboard". 

 

I think we ended up losing the game 84 to 1 but I'll do that every time. 

 

If 15 year-old baseball players can handle it... so can grown men making large amounts of cash. 

 

There is never a time to throw at a batter. 

Man, I would hate having someone that intense teaching kids. The opposing coach did the right thing.

[Riverbrian]

 

Man, I would hate having someone that intense teaching kids. The opposing coach did the right thing.

 

I'm retired. Your kids are safe. 

 

Although, I personally, don't consider asking players to keep playing, intense. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

It is a common sense unwritten rule. You're up 8 in the 9th and the count is 3-0. You don't swing. Cave swung. The next better Kepler got beaned in the gentlest of possible ways. Kepler didn't get mad. Baldelli didn't get mad. It's baseball. This is how baseball is played. It's a great unwritten rule.

I disagree.  It is not a sport unless you compete. That means try on every single pitch. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

Man, I would hate having someone that intense teaching kids. The opposing coach did the right thing.

Yeah, when I coached and my team  was up by a winning margin we stopped running. But we still hit away. To do less is to sacrifice your integrity.  The game wants you to try every play. 

 

 

[jkcarew]

Dumb play by a young guy followed by a harmless plunking of Kepler. Professionals policing themselves. Much ado about nothing.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Dumb play by a young guy followed by a harmless plunking of Kepler. Professionals policing themselves. Much ado about nothing.

That sums it up.

[twinsnorth49]

You teach kids to run station to station, but not to take pitches. Learning to hit is the most important part of their game.

 

These are pros, as mentioned earlier they police themselves. They didn’t need to hit Kepler, maybe throw behind him or high and tight to let them know what Cave did wasn’t appreciated. It’s not that big a deal.

[twinsnorth49]

I thought for sure Odor would wear one in Toronto after pimping that HR down 17-3. I’m sure his own team wanted to see him plunked, lol.

[Platoon]

Well fortunately Caves Career wont be derailed by taking a 3-0 cookie in an 8 run game. More likely that will come if he keeps diving at sinking liners 6' from his glove?

[Bomba2026]

I think it has been proven that the Twins need EVERY run they can get.....

[terrydactyls]

My take on this situation is a little different. To me, you take a 3-0 pitch in a close game because the pitcher is having trouble finding the strike zone and you want him to work for an out. In a lop-sided game, swing away. Cave is likely to get a hit about once in four tries so the odds are in Texas' favor if he swings.

 

As for "unwritten rules", write them down so everyone knows what they are. Or if they are too embarrassing to write down, get rid of them.

[Mr. Brooks]

My take on this situation is a little different. To me, you take a 3-0 pitch in a close game because the pitcher is having trouble finding the strike zone and you want him to work for an out. In a lop-sided game, swing away. Cave is likely to get a hit about once in four tries so the odds are in Texas' favor if he swings.As for "unwritten rules", write them down so everyone knows what they are. Or if they are too embarrassing to write down, get rid of them.

Minor point. He's going to get a hit a lot more than 25% of the time on a 3-0 count, especially when he knows a bp meatball is coming down the middle of the plate.

His career sample size on 3-0 is too small to cite, but he's a career .378 hitter when ahead in the count. In that situation it's going to be a hit probably 60+ % of the time.

[BobAzar]

To quote Herm Edwards, " You play to win the game!". It's not "you play to uphold unwritten rules that have been in the game before black players were allowed to play and before HRs were hit at record paces". 

 

Should Cave have taken a pitch? probably, but he saw a pitch to hit, and he did, thats the point of the game. Hitting Kep, who literally had nothing to do with that, is just ridiculous. If unwritten rules were worth anything, they'd be written down

 

[BD57]

 

Dumb play by a young guy followed by a harmless plunking of Kepler. Professionals policing themselves. Much ado about nothing.

 

Turned out that way, thank goodness.  If he'd hit Kepler in the head or the wrist and he wound up missing significant time as a result, it wouldn't be.

[Platoon]

Writing down the unwritten rules would make them written. This would seemingly reduce the passion that the unwritten rules seem to generate. The baseball rule book is thick enough and confusing enough as is. You can't write every little thing down. . Bottom line I bet every sport has unwritten rules. But since I wasn't engrained in any other sport I don't know any. But they are out there, lurking, waiting to be enforced on the unsuspecting! Speaking of unsuspecting, I bet none of Rocco, Cave, Kepler, the 1B coach, nor the umpire were unsuspecting when Kep got pegged. They just moved up a base, and discussed it later.

[gunnarthor]

 

Writing down the unwritten rules would make them written. This would seemingly reduce the passion that the unwritten rules seem to generate. The baseball rule book is thick enough and confusing enough as is. You can't write every little thing down. . Bottom line I bet every sport has unwritten rules. But since I wasn't engrained in any other sport I don't know any. But they are out there, lurking, waiting to be enforced on the unsuspecting! Speaking of unsuspecting, I bet none of Rocco, Cave, Kepler, the 1B coach, nor the umpire were unsuspecting when Kep got pegged. They just moved up a base, and discussed it later.

Every sport has unwritten rules and in every sport they boil down to 'respect your opponent and 'respect the game.'

 

[LVTwinsfan]

I think AL pitchers especially, should never get involved in this kind of unwritten justice. How do you retaliate against them? They don’t stand in the box. And if an eight run lead is in surmountable then just forfeit the game and go home, or you you’re tired of the other team scoring so much then stop them. That pitcher should have been ejected and fined

[Ebby Calvin Laloosh]

They had Cave shifted...end of story. Swing away. You can't have it both ways.

[jokin]

 

I honestly have never heard of this "unwritten rule," therefore, I dont actually think it is one, which makes this even weirder.

Why would I let a grooved pitch go in this situation? A walk does nothing at that point. If you dont want me to swing, then purposefully walk me.

 

It must have been an unwritten rule. The evidence?

 

1) Dick Bremer first in a state of shock, and then joined by Roy Smalley were both having the vapors at the unseemly specter of anyone actually swinging at a 3-0 pitch in that situation.

 

2) The first base coach instead of congratulating Cave, quickly upbraided him upon his arrival at first.

 

3) In reaction to being scolded, Cave looked like a six-year-old who had just been caught stealing the last cookie from his Mama's cookie jar as he profusely apologized to the pitcher in question.

 

4) Kepler, though from baseball-free Europe, knowingly waited out the next 3 pitches in nervous trepidation, until he was unceremoniously, but surgically, plunked on what would have been ball four.

 

5) The home plate umpire feigned ignorance of the entire proceedings- in what was an obvious display of Baseball Kabuki Theater- wherein, because of unwritten (and unauthored) rules, the beautiful sport of Base Ball. magically instills "restorative justice" simultaneously as it curiously descends from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Edited August 17, 2019 by jokin

[brvama]

First, NO ONE should EVER be thrown at on purpose in baseball. That just reeks of poor sportsmanship.

 

Now regarding this unwritten rule, my questions is when it kicks in. Given the HUGE innings that seems to be normal, what lead is safe? Anyone remember in in 2017 when the Twins were leading the Astros 8-2, and they scored 11 runs in one inning on the way to a 16-8 win? 

 

This whole "rule" reeks of poor sportsmanship by those who randomly use it and those that allow it to be used, IMHO.

[DocBauer]

So many good posts I had to quit "liking" them and skim.

 

If Cave actually did something wrong, or felt he did, his apology should have ended it. Throwing a hard object at someone who had nothing to do with the situation is childish, poor sportsmanship, and borders on mild assault.

 

To lay down and not try...as I guess Cave was supposed to do...is ridiculous. He didn't hunt or steal a base...he hit a 3-0 pitch down the middle for a hit.

 

In the heyday of my Cornhuskers destroying other teams, they would run up yardage and the score using 2nd, 3rd and sometimes even 4th team players. They quit throwing the ball and they never ran trick plays or fakes. But they also didn't instruct the reserves to quit playing and not try.

 

I guess Cave should have just stood there with his bat on his shoulder and waited for a BB or called SO? Come to think of it, that's probably what the rest of the team should have done, just stand there and let the pitcher do what he wanted. Just ridiculous!