Noah Syndergaard

[Vanimal46]

I wonder why the Mets would be trying to trade Syndergaard, but unless the FO is aware of some medical issue, this is the type of pitcher you spend major prospect capital to acquire. Just too rare, and too potentially impactful not to. With control, and no burdensome contract to deal with.

Concur. If he gets the thumbs up from our medical team I go all in on Thor. Wes Johnson would get a super talented shiny new toy to work with. I'd love to see it!

[nicksaviking]

 

My gut tells me that he has requested a trade behind the scenes due to the ineptness of the new front office (pure speculation on my part, of course)

 

My gut is often wrong, but that was my first thought as well. Perhaps he'd be upset because deGrom got the extension and they didn't talk to him about one, or possibly because he feels the organization is as much of a mess as the rest of the baseball community does.

[SomeGuy]

 

I wonder why the Mets would be trying to trade Syndergaard, but unless the FO is aware of some medical issue, this is the type of pitcher you spend major prospect capital to acquire. Just too rare, and too potentially impactful not to. With control, and no burdensome contract to deal with.

This is what I am thinking too. Grabbing Stroman and trading Syndergaard is a downgrade on paper. They could restock their farm system in a trade but the Stroman grab makes it look like 2020 is very much in play. Are they going to get a prospect package that benefits 2020 more than Syndergaard would? A rotation of DeGrom, Sydergaard, Stroman, Matz, and Vargas would be very formidable.

 

Trade Rumors points out how weird it is that they traded for a groundball pitcher with one of the worst infield defenses. I kind of think the Agent-turned-GM just doesn't really know what he is doing. I also think their desire to trade Thor might be blown out of proportion and is only a "if we are blown away" situation i.e. Lewis and Kirilloff. I don't think it is health or personal reasons between player and team.

[nicksaviking]

 

I’d alter the second list a bit depending whether the Mets want Lewis or Kirilloff but this looks pretty good to me.

 

From the sounds of it, if the Twins have any shot at this, the Mets are going to need to have interest in Thorpe, Littell, Romero, maybe Gonsavles. Wanting the MLB ready pitching isn't unique, everyone, fans and pundits alike, seem to only focuses on the prospects. Lots of teams seem to value lesser talent that can contribute right now.

 

I bet the Mets wouldn't automatically hang up if the offer is Kirilloff, Enlow, Thorpe and Romero.

[JW24]

 

Concur. If he gets the thumbs up from our medical team I go all in on Thor. Wes Johnson would get a super talented shiny new toy to work with. I'd love to see it!

I don't think it can be emphasized enough that, should the Twins land Thor, he would transition from an organization with an 82-year-old pitching coach to Wes Johnson. I think the Twins would get a better version of Syndergaard than what the Mets have gotten this year.

[Vanimal46]

I don't think it can be emphasized enough that, should the Twins land Thor, he would transition from an organization with an 82-year-old pitching coach to Wes Johnson. I think the Twins would get a better version of Syndergaard than what the Mets have gotten this year.

Agreed. We can finally say the Twins are better analytically than several teams in baseball. Thor always had a ton of talent and with a couple of tweaks (changing his pitch mix) he could be a game changer for the Twins.

[In My La Z boy]

I had to watch yesterdays game on the White Sox channel - Stone made the point that there is no point to the Twins adding a starter unless it is a #1 type guy. I liked his reasoning. We've all heard the Mets were looking for a major league ready starter in return. Maybe they got there starter in Stroman, in part because there trade partner (Twins) on Syndergaard doesn't have one? Hoping the Stroman trade was a precursor to a Syndergaard trade. Mets playing chess? It is also very likely a poke in the eye to the Yankees. Which is fun. 

[redstorm]

With Syndergaard's updated value at baseballtradevalues.com, the latest trade that I got to match up was:

 

Kirilloff, Gordon, Romero and Rooker for Syndergaard

 

This does not seem to match what the Mets are looking for (MLB-ready pitching)

 

With that note, I put a more realistic proposal together:

 

Kirilloff, Romero, Thorpe and Duran for Syndergaard.

 

This one hurts more, but I feel like that is the Twins best bet to beat out the likes of the Braves, Astros, etc.

 

[SpicyGarvSauce]

It would be the most Mets thing ever to trade Syndergaard to the Braves.

[Twodogs]

https://nypost.com/2019/07/29/marcus-stromans-yankees-desire-confirmed-after-ugly-clubhouse-scene/

 

Apparently Stroman didn't want to go to the Mets?? Wanted to go to a contender?

[yarnivek1972]

https://nypost.com/2019/07/29/marcus-stromans-yankees-desire-confirmed-after-ugly-clubhouse-scene/

 

Apparently Stroman didn't want to go to the Mets?? Wanted to go to a contender?

Don’t most players want to be on contenders?

[AZTwin]

Well, we may now know the Mets strategy. They just traded for Vargas from the Mets. Now Stroman has a spot in the rotation. Are the Mets building for next year? Sure looks like it. Syndegaard may not really be available.

If that’s the case grab Robbie Ray or just focus on the bullpen. I wouldn’t overpay for Syndergaard who has his own concerns

[AZTwin]

Mets really let Vargas go for nothing

[Vanimal46]

Mets really let Vargas go for nothing

He did have that meltdown with beat reporters earlier this season... Could have contributed to the decision to get rid of him.

[ashbury]

He did have that meltdown with beat reporters earlier this season... Could have contributed to the decision to get rid of him.

The trade evaluator site has him at negative trade value, and didn't list at all the catcher who went in return, FWIW.

[yarnivek1972]

Mets really let Vargas go for nothing

Literally. A 26 year old catcher with a career AA OPS under .700. And the Mets are paying all of Vargas’ remaining salary for 2019. The only thing the Phillies are on the hook for is the $2 mil buyout for 2020.

[yarnivek1972]

The trade evaluator site has him at negative trade value, and didn't list at all the catcher who went in return, FWIW.

Guess we know it is pretty accurate...

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Guess we know it is pretty accurate...

 

I am quite curious if they will freeze their values so we can grade them after the deadline has passed. 

[Darius]

Sano is valuable, but so darn streaky.

 

Keep in mind, the latest Yankee series notwithstanding, Sano could be vulnerable to a postseason-caliber pitching against him (as opposed to just “get ahead, attack the zone” strategy that we see from the Detroit-type teams in the regular season). Sano can be pitched to, and the front office left him off the roster against the Yankees in the wild card in 2017.

 

I like Sano and I think his teammates do too. Would be hard to trade a piece like that right now. I think the Mets would happily take him in a Syndergaard package. It would be quite a gutsy call.

Since Sano made his adjustments, he’s in the top 10 in the AL in swinging at pitches outside of the zone (the good top 10, he doesn’t swing at bad pitches - credit Gleeman and the Geek). He’s extremely patient, and has always been a guy that works the count.

 

Sano may be the least “vulnerable to post-season caliber pitching,” on the team. He’s no more vulnerable to a perfectly thrown outside slider than 95% of the league.

 

I get that people don’t like Sano, for whatever the reason. But let’s leave the false narratives at the door. The guy can be incredibly disciplined and patient. Sometimes to his own detriment, IMO. He has a high K rate because he’s trying to hit the ball to the moon, not from swinging at bad pitches.

[Mr. Brooks]

Mets really let Vargas go for nothing

Yeah, a FIP near 5 in the national league will typically do a number on a player's value.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am quite curious if they will freeze their values so we can grade them after the deadline has passed.

I don't think the values change that frequently.

 

Also, they have been keeping score with all the trades as they happen here:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/real-life-scorecard-tracking-our-values-against-the-2019-summer-trade-deadline/

[Otto von Ballpark]

Mets really let Vargas go for nothing

Vargas is 36 years old with the following stats over the last 2 years:

 

125 ERA- / 117 FIP- / 114 xFIP-

 

That's like Ricky Nolasco Twins numbers (134/104/104), but 3 years older.

 

Getting $2 mil salary relief for that guy seems like they did all right. Heck, they might even beat him when he starts for the Phillies!

[mlhouse]

 

If that’s the case grab Robbie Ray or just focus on the bullpen. I wouldn’t overpay for Syndergaard who has his own concerns

 

My friend lives in Long Island and is a Mets fan.  He believes Syndergaard will be traded.  But no one really knows.

 

I think the Twins should make a deal and offer a premium package to get the best starter possible and hope it can carry into next year.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I get that people don’t like Sano, for whatever the reason. But let’s leave the false narratives at the door. The guy can be incredibly disciplined and patient.

.....

 

He has a high K rate because he’s trying to hit the ball to the moon, not from swinging at bad pitches.

I like Sano. As I stated. Where did I present a false narrative? It just my belief that in contrast to your “incredibly disciplined” narrative (which I agree with), there is also an “incredibly undisciplined” side of him, which you see in the blow-by-blow, now-he’s-hot, now-he’s-not, conversation that takes place on this site. His next four-strikeout games is always just around the corner, no?

 

To your comment that “Sano may be the least vulnerable to post-season caliber pitching”, Sano has a platoon spit, which I personally believe is due to his tendency to chase breaking pitches from righties, not swing for the moon (he has no other way of swinging). I think Parker also had a chart that showed some holes in his swing. Anyway Sano’s platoon split is in even sharper contrast when you look at just Astros and Yankees starting pitchers I assume the Twins will or should face in the postseason. Small sample alert but I think it’s foolish to discount this split entirely. I am compiling that info and can post if you wish.

[Mr. Brooks]

I like Sano. As I stated. Where did I present a false narrative? It just my belief that in contrast to your “incredibly disciplined” narrative (which I agree with), there is also an “incredibly undisciplined” side of him, which you see in the blow-by-blow, now-he’s-hot, now-he’s-not, conversation that takes place on this site. His next four-strikeout games is always just around the corner, no?

 

To your comment that “Sano may be the least vulnerable to post-season caliber pitching”, Sano has a platoon spit, which I personally believe is due to his tendency to chase breaking pitches from righties, not swing for the moon (he has no other way of swinging). I think Parker also had a chart that showed some holes in his swing. Anyway Sano’s platoon split is in even sharper contrast when you look at just Astros and Yankees starting pitchers I assume the Twins will or should face in the postseason. Small sample alert but I think it’s foolish to discount this split entirely. I am compiling that info and can post if you wish.

It's already been shown with data on this site, that even during Sano's massive K slumps, it's not because of a lack of discipline though. Even during those slumps, his out of zone swing percentages aren't out of line, it's that he starts whiffing on pitches that are in the zone.

 

I think his slumps are due to his mechanics getting out of whack, and not because of any issue with plate discipline.

In other words, he's still swinging at good pitches during those slumps, he's just missing them.

[lecroy24fan]

From Lavelle in his Twins Insider:

 

 

According to multiple sources with knowledge of talks, the Twins discussed trade scenarios with Toronto about righthander Marcus Stroman before the All-Star starting pitcher was dealt to the Mets. They also inquired about Mets righthander Noah Syndergaard before being turned off by New York’s high asking price, which included Byron Buxton.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

It's already been shown with data on this site, that even during Sano's massive K slumps, it's not because of a lack of discipline though. Even during those slumps, his out of zone swing percentages aren't out of line, it's that he starts whiffing on pitches that are in the zone.

I think his slumps are due to his mechanics getting out of whack, and not because of any issue with plate discipline.

In other words, he's still swinging at good pitches during those slumps, he's just missing them.

Ok, I believe you. Though I can’t shake the impression he is more vulnerable to righties and breaking pitches. Houston’s strongest starting pitchers are right-handers. Obviously I don’t know the underlying pitch and swing data to tell you if Sano is vulnerable to those Houston starters in a potential postseason series. Nor do I think that data should be factored in thinking about trade scenarios with him.

[AZTwin]

From Lavelle in his Twins Insider:

Buxton? Lmfao. Bye Felicia. Go target Ray. I wouldn’t even take another call from the Mets

[ScooterDance]

 

Buxton? Lmfao. Bye Felicia. Go target Ray. I wouldn’t even take another call from the Mets

 

I can't like this enough.

[ScooterDance]

 

I can't like this enough.

 

Is it kosher to create 238 burner accounts to give it more likes?