Slegers DFA'd to Make Room for Cruz

[Brock Beauchamp]

I would like to see what he can do with an extended look in the majors.

On another team, sure.

[old nurse]

 

It's OK if your #5 is an AAAA caliber player. It's not so good when that's the caliber of your entire starting staff and outfield defense, though Terry Ryan would seemingly disagree.

Trolling or do you really believe that?

[Mr. Brooks]

I think you're being a little unfair.

From a Nick Nelson article on this very site, posted today:

 

 

"The five pitchers to receive the most starts for Minnesota were Kevin Correia, Mike Pelfrey, Scott Diamond, Sam Deduno and Pedro Hernandez. Opening Day starter Vance Worley posted a 7.21 ERA in 10 starts and was gone a year later."

[bird]

 

From a Nick Nelson article on this very site, posted today:


"The five pitchers to receive the most starts for Minnesota were Kevin Correia, Mike Pelfrey, Scott Diamond, Sam Deduno and Pedro Hernandez. Opening Day starter Vance Worley posted a 7.21 ERA in 10 starts and was gone a year later."

 

 

From Doom: "It's OK if your #5 is an AAAA caliber player."

 

If he's describing the 2019 rotation as anything either close to AAAA or anything like that rotation from five years back, I think he's being unfair, don't you?

[Rosterman]

Here's good for depth, but the Twins will have a full rotation at Rochester as well as other arms needed to advance by mid-season.

[Mr. Brooks]

From Doom: "It's OK if your #5 is an AAAA caliber player."

 

If he's describing the 2019 rotation as anything either close to AAAA or anything like that rotation from five years back, I think he's being unfair, don't you?

Yes, that would be.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were replying that it was unfair to claim that ever happened under Ryan.

[rv78]

Let's assume Slegers clears waivers, or maybe he doesn't and he's gone. Let's assume the Twins don't have a spot for him in the rotation. We don't have to assume Duffey has pretty much failed to be a reliable pitcher. So, what is wrong with giving a guy like Slegers a chance in the bullpen over a guy like Duffey. Talk is to move Romero to the bullpen. Slegers doesn't deserve the same chance? If Duffey takes the mound even once for the Twins in 2019 over giving guys like Slegers a chance this FO needs their heads examined. Might as well sign Belisle and BIg Sexy again.

[MMMordabito]

Good luck to Aaron Slegers.  He's given the organization a lot of good innings to almost the top of the ladder.  However, it's good to see the front office replace a lesser talent with a proven one, even though it's on the other side of the ball.  We've become accustomed to rooting for too many of these types of players to play above themselves. You occasionally get the good story and definitely get the fun moments (e.g. LaMarre's walk-off hit in the 16th in P.R.).  But, a quick look at the 2012 pitching staff will show you what over-betting on too many of these types tends to return.

 

Hopefully, someone like Cody Allen or Kelvin Herrera can be brought in to push Matt Magill off next.

[Doomtints]

Yes, I am still bitter about Terry Ryan's second extended vacation tenure with the team.

 

I realize my comment is out of place and will try to stay on topic.

[Squirrel]

 

Yes, I am still bitter about Terry Ryan's second extended vacation tenure with the team.

 

I realize my comment is out of place and will try to stay on topic.

Thank you.

[KirbyDome89]

I'm not shedding any tears over Slegers being DFA'd. I don't think many ever saw him as a guy who would stick in MLB. That said I'm not sure the gap between him and some of the other "depth," being listed above him is all that significant. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I'm not shedding any tears over Slegers being DFA'd. I don't think many ever saw him as a guy who would stick in MLB. That said I'm not sure the gap between him and some of the other "depth," being listed above him is all that significant. 

Most of the guys above him have higher ceilings. He wasn't going to pass Gonsalves, Stewart, Thrope, Littell, or even Wells... and he has Graterol who would pass him on the chart the moment he's added to the 40 man. 

 

That said, I wonder if the Twins will try and have Slegers work out of the pen in the minors this season. He might be one of those failed starter experiments would do wonders in the pen with a couple extra MPH.

[laloesch]

On another team, sure.

I believe with agree on that

[KirbyDome89]

 

Most of the guys above him have higher ceilings. He wasn't going to pass Gonsalves, Stewart, Thrope, Littell, or even Wells... and he has Graterol who would pass him on the chart the moment he's added to the 40 man. 

 

That said, I wonder if the Twins will try and have Slegers work out of the pen in the minors this season. He might be one of those failed starter experiments would do wonders in the pen with a couple extra MPH.

Completely agree that he's a lower ceiling, but ceiling doesn't help the Twins much at the Major League level. Gonsalves and LIttell didn't look particularly good last season. Thorpe, Wells, and Graterol have yet to throw a pitch for the Twins. Depth is great, but you have to be able to actually rely on some of those guys. IMO the gap between Slegers and a lot of the pitchers listed, in terms of reliability in the majors, isn't very large right now. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Completely agree that he's a lower ceiling, but ceiling doesn't help the Twins much at the Major League level. Gonsalves and LIttell didn't look particularly good last season. Thorpe, Wells, and Graterol have yet to throw a pitch for the Twins. Depth is great, but you have to be able to actually rely on some of those guys. IMO the gap between Slegers and a lot of the pitchers listed, in terms of reliability in the majors, isn't very large right now. 

Slegers didn't really look good for the Twins either. At some point, the team has to decide who is leaving the 40 man to make room for the new add, and Slegers, like it or not, was the logical choice. The ceiling matters in that aspect b/c guys like Gonsavles, Stewart, and Littell will hopefully improve. Romero factors in too. He'll be the first guy added to the rotation, and given how well he did in his rookie year, if he's made the changes needed, he may never leave. Thorpe is a wildcard too. The stuff is there. 

 

I'm really not worried about the Twins depth at SP this season. They have 5 arms on the 40 man right now, all of whom could slot in as competent 5th starters, and most of whom (if things click) could force their way on to the 2020 roster. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Yeah, when it comes to fringe 40 man spots, I'm protecting ceiling every time.

The potential for slightly above replacement level spurts from a cheap 5th starter has some value, but doesn't really move the needle at all.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Slegers didn't really look good for the Twins either. At some point, the team has to decide who is leaving the 40 man to make room for the new add, and Slegers, like it or not, was the logical choice. The ceiling matters in that aspect b/c guys like Gonsavles, Stewart, and Littell will hopefully improve. Romero factors in too. He'll be the first guy added to the rotation, and given how well he did in his rookie year, if he's made the changes needed, he may never leave. Thorpe is a wildcard too. The stuff is there. 

 

I'm really not worried about the Twins depth at SP this season. They have 5 arms on the 40 man right now, all of whom could slot in as competent 5th starters, and most of whom (if things click) could force their way on to the 2020 roster. 

Agreed 100% with the first part. I'm not knocking the loss of Slegers by any means.

 

What I don't see, at least currently, is enough of a gap between Slegers and a lot of the guys on that list to feel comfortable to start 19'. Pineda is penciled in as the #4 starter right now and his durability is more than questionable. Maybe he stays healthy and maybe a few of the younger arms step up, but I'm sticking to my notion that reliability is part of "depth," and I'm not sure the Twins have a whole lot of that in the starting rotation. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

What I don't see, at least currently, is enough of a gap between Slegers and a lot of the guys on that list to feel comfortable to start 19'. Pineda is penciled in as the #4 starter right now and his durability is more than questionable. Maybe he stays healthy and maybe a few of the younger arms step up, but I'm sticking to my notion that reliability is part of "depth," and I'm not sure the Twins have a whole lot of that in the starting rotation. 

Reliability in pitching, particularly at the back of the rotation, only really exists in hindsight.

 

Any pitcher that sits at the back of a rotation is walking a tightrope; any loss of speed, control, command, whatever, and he's toast. In that respect, Pineda is probably less of a concern than most pitchers in his position, as he can lose a little and not be completely ineffective.

[Squirrel]

It’s been 7 days, has Slegers then cleared waivers?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Reliability in pitching, particularly at the back of the rotation, only really exists in hindsight.

 

Any pitcher that sits at the back of a rotation is walking a tightrope; any loss of speed, control, command, whatever, and he's toast. In that respect, Pineda is probably less of a concern than most pitchers in his position, as he can lose a little and not be completely ineffective.

That seems a bit extreme. Ideally they'd address the front end and improve the back via others sliding down the ladder but that seems unlikely at this point. There were, and are, moves they could make which would solidify the back end. They certainly wouldn't be sexy, and I'm not exactly pounding the table for the addition of another 4-5 type pitcher because the hope is Gonsalves or Littell might become just that., However it'd be an improvement over crossing your fingers that either of them turn things around after looking uninspiring in limited appearances last season, especially if the team is serious about putting Romero in the pen to start the year.

 

As for Pineda, the stuff might still be wholly intact but his durability is a real concern. Whether it's ability or availability, to be relied upon he has to stay on the field, and there are serious concerns about whether he'll be able to do that for a significant part of the season. If I'm the Twins there's no way I'm comfortable banking on him making 25+ starts, which enhances my concern about the "depth," in the rotation.

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

That seems a bit extreme. Ideally they'd address the front end and improve the back via others sliding down the ladder but that seems unlikely at this point. There were, and are, moves they could make which would solidify the back end. They certainly wouldn't be sexy, and I'm not exactly pounding the table for the addition of another 4-5 type pitcher because the hope is Gonsalves or Littell might become just that., However it'd be an improvement over crossing your fingers that either of them turn things around after looking uninspiring in limited appearances last season, especially if the team is serious about putting Romero in the pen to start the year.

 

As for Pineda, the stuff might still be wholly intact but his durability is a real concern. Whether it's ability or availability, to be relied upon he has to stay on the field, and there are serious concerns about whether he'll be able to do that for a significant part of the season. If I'm the Twins there's no way I'm comfortable banking on him making 25+ starts, which enhances my concern about the "depth," in the rotation.

Honestly, it's hard to be comfortable with very many guys making 25+ starts. Injuries happen in the pitching world. That's why I like the depth they have. It's not Slegers is gone by any means, but there are 6 other guys on the 40 man right now (Stewart, Gonsalves, Littell, DeJong, Thorpe, and Romero) with more upside and 2 more (Graterol, Wells) that could be added and called up if needed. I'm not sure that extra depth piece matters that much. 

 

You can add Mejia to that list if they sign another SP (which I don't think they will). 

 

SP depth is not the problem on this team. I'd agree that SP upside is somewhat lacking, but that's also part of why they need to get guys like Romero and Thrope on the mound in the majors. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

That seems a bit extreme. Ideally they'd address the front end and improve the back via others sliding down the ladder but that seems unlikely at this point. There were, and are, moves they could make which would solidify the back end. They certainly wouldn't be sexy, and I'm not exactly pounding the table for the addition of another 4-5 type pitcher because the hope is Gonsalves or Littell might become just that., However it'd be an improvement over crossing your fingers that either of them turn things around after looking uninspiring in limited appearances last season, especially if the team is serious about putting Romero in the pen to start the year.

 

As for Pineda, the stuff might still be wholly intact but his durability is a real concern. Whether it's ability or availability, to be relied upon he has to stay on the field, and there are serious concerns about whether he'll be able to do that for a significant part of the season. If I'm the Twins there's no way I'm comfortable banking on him making 25+ starts, which enhances my concern about the "depth," in the rotation.

I agree that the best way to fill out the back of a rotation is by making the front of it better but that's a really risky way to play and often turns out disastrous. Pretty much all of us wanted Darvish last season and... whoops. That didn't work out so hot for the Cubs. Still lots of time left on the contract but losing the first year, the year in which you're most guaranteed the performance you paid to get, makes it very difficult (and unlikely) that the contract will ever work out for the team.

 

Though there's nothing stopping the Twins from making a trade for a guy they can control for 2-3 seasons.

[Seth Stohs]

Slegers was claimed by the Pirates.

 

https://twitter.com/dohyoungpark/status/1083812683001090048 

[ashbury]

Slegers was claimed by the Pirates.

 

https://twitter.com/dohyoungpark/status/1083812683001090048 

The waiver period lasts 3 days, right? So the Twins apparently did not put him on waivers at the same time they DFA'ed him. A team has 10 days to decide what to do with someone, once they're designated. This episode is a good example of the separation between the two processes.

[Dman]

I am a little bummed but good for Aaron. He should get fair shot in Pittsburgh. They always seem to do well with our cast off pitchers anyway.

[Thrylos]

 

I am a little bummed but good for Aaron. He should get fair shot in Pittsburgh. They always seem to do well with our cast off pitchers anyway.

 

I would not put FranKKKKKKKKKKKKKKie and Slegers in the same sentence...

[Jacksson]

So, the REAL COST of adding 38 year old Cruz, who in reality has no defensive position and only plays DH - unless there is an emergency, is the COST of the loss of Slegers.

He was drafted in the 5th round in 2013 out of Indiana University.

He cost us his bonus payment PLUS the opportunity cost of drafting somebody else.

Then there is the cost to the organization each year.

Not only what was paid to Slegers, but also a portion of what was paid to the managers, coaches, trainers for the teams he was on as well as a pro-rated share of organization management.

2013 = Rookie, Elizabethton APPY League - Rookie

2014 = A, Cedar Rapids, Midwest League AND A+ Fort Myers, Florida League

2015 = A+, Fort Myers, Florida League AND AA, Chattanooga, Southern League

2016 = AA Chattanooga, Southern League

2017 = AAA Rochester, International League AND a cup of coffee with the Twins

2018 = AAA Rochester, International League AND a Bigger cup of coffee with the Twins

 

All that time, all that MONEY, all those resources just thrown away for a $20,000 waiver fee.

[Danchat]

 

So, the REAL COST of adding 38 year old Cruz, who in reality has no defensive position and only plays DH - unless there is an emergency, is the COST of the loss of Slegers.
He was drafted in the 5th round in 2013 out of Indiana University.
He cost us his bonus payment PLUS the opportunity cost of drafting somebody else.
Then there is the cost to the organization each year.
Not only what was paid to Slegers, but also a portion of what was paid to the managers, coaches, trainers for the teams he was on as well as a pro-rated share of organization management.
2013 = Rookie, Elizabethton APPY League - Rookie
2014 = A, Cedar Rapids, Midwest League AND A+ Fort Myers, Florida League
2015 = A+, Fort Myers, Florida League AND AA, Chattanooga, Southern League
2016 = AA Chattanooga, Southern League
2017 = AAA Rochester, International League AND a cup of coffee with the Twins
2018 = AAA Rochester, International League AND a Bigger cup of coffee with the Twins

All that time, all that MONEY, all those resources just thrown away for a $20,000 waiver fee.

Um, what? Players like Slegers are released/DFA'd/waived all the time. Guys like him fit free agency with no offer from their long-time MLB teams that have developed them. Slegers was a low upside starter and pitched poorly in the majors, so it was a reasonable move to let him go. Oh, and Cruz and Slegers have nothing to do with each other (didn't we have a conversation like this last year?). Cruz's defensive problems are totally unrelated to Slegers - it's not like Nelson is taking Aaron's 25 man roster spot that he was going to have. Even if the Cruz signing never happens, Slegers still gets DFA'd due to the Blaker Parker signing.

[USAFChief]

So, the REAL COST of adding 38 year old Cruz, who in reality has no defensive position and only plays DH - unless there is an emergency, is the COST of the loss of Slegers.

He was drafted in the 5th round in 2013 out of Indiana University.

He cost us his bonus payment PLUS the opportunity cost of drafting somebody else.

Then there is the cost to the organization each year.

Not only what was paid to Slegers, but also a portion of what was paid to the managers, coaches, trainers for the teams he was on as well as a pro-rated share of organization management.

2013 = Rookie, Elizabethton APPY League - Rookie

2014 = A, Cedar Rapids, Midwest League AND A+ Fort Myers, Florida League

2015 = A+, Fort Myers, Florida League AND AA, Chattanooga, Southern League

2016 = AA Chattanooga, Southern League

2017 = AAA Rochester, International League AND a cup of coffee with the Twins

2018 = AAA Rochester, International League AND a Bigger cup of coffee with the Twins

 

All that time, all that MONEY, all those resources just thrown away for a $20,000 waiver fee.

I agree...Cruz was a bargain.

[Squirrel]

The waiver period lasts 3 days, right? So the Twins apparently did not put him on waivers at the same time they DFA'ed him. A team has 10 days to decide what to do with someone, once they're designated. This episode is a good example of the separation between the two processes.

I thought once a player is DFA’d they have 7 days to trade him or put him on waivers. I’m not sure when he was put on waivers, but the 7 days would seem about right for him to be claimed today. Yes? No? Seth?