I came across this rumor about Thor and the Mets and had to ask....

[Brandon]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/11/mets-seriously-considering-noah-syndergaard-trade-scenarios.html 

 

I came across the trade rumor that the Mets are considering trading Thor and would want close to MLB ready prospects for him.  I was wondering what it would take to get him from what we have. 

 

It looks like they need position players and maybe a pitcher to replace him in the rotation or pen arm.

 

So we can include Sano, Kepler, Cave, Rooker, Austin, Gordon, Maybe Larnarch and Jeffers if the Mets feel they are advanced enough.  

 

On pitchers we have lots of back end started.  Romero could be a mid rotation starter.  of the 14 prospects we aquired at the deadline, I don't know if any of them but Austin are close to the majors. or close enough for the Mets.

 

same with bullpen May and Hidenburger and a bunch of prospects.  

 

Would a package of Rooker, Cave, Romero, May and Gordon work?  or would it look better if we replaced Rooker with Sano?  Or do we need another combination altogether or do we need to include a third team.  

 

And lastly, is this worth pursuing?

[Vanimal46]

Any offer not including Lewis or Kirilloff is a non-starter.

 

They want an elite position player as the headliner https://elitesportsny.com/2018/11/20/new-york-mets-looking-for-elite-position-player-for-noah-syndergaard-report/

 

For the record, I would give up Lewis or Kirilloff plus other prospects they're interested in for 3 years of Thor.

[AceWrigley]

Thor belongs in Minnesota. Skol.

[jorgenswest]

Any offer not including Lewis or Kirilloff is a non-starter.

 

They want an elite position player as the headliner https://elitesportsny.com/2018/11/20/new-york-mets-looking-for-elite-position-player-for-noah-syndergaard-report/

 

For the record, I would give up Lewis or Kirilloff plus other prospects they're interested in for 3 years of Thor.

You are right. It will take an elite prospect. I am in if it is Kirilloff.

 

Suggestions of a package of second and third tier prospects is equivalent to not being interested in this deal.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

Would a package of Rooker, Cave, Romero, May and Gordon work?  or would it look better if we replaced Rooker with Sano?  Or do we need another combination altogether or do we need to include a third team.  

 

 

 

I'm all for getting Thor, but this doesn't make a lot of sense (not to mention very expensive). Thor is a win now move, so sacrificing the ML roster for him is a bad idea. Sano, Cave, and May are all major leaguers and now present holes to fill if they were moved. Sano and May are also potential impact players at their positions, and there's nothing on the team to backfill for them, meaning there's a good chance the 2019 team is worse with Thor if those 3 are gone. The jury is still out on Cave, but he's certainly Buxton insurance/ very good 4th OF at his worst and could potentially be more than that.

 

Rooker, Romero, and Gordon might be a place to start, but I don't see a scenario where AK and/or Lewis aren't involved, nor would it make sense to trade away your higher minor guys to a team looking to rebuild. As well, Romero is likely going to be in the rotation at some point this season, and likely to stay. Rooker and to a lesser extent Gordon could find themselves in the 2019 plans too. If you want Thor, my guess is you start with something like this:

 

1 of AK/Lewis (probably Lewis due to position), Graterol, Gordon or Gonsalves, and probably a high risk/reward guy in the low minors. That's two top 100 guys (Graterol is probably borderline in that area), 1 guy that is a pretty decent bet to be a ML starter and could be very good, and a lotto ticket. 

 

Personally, I'm still a bit salty about the Johann trade, so I would offer something along the lines of what we got from them. 

 

[mike8791]

Importantly, Heyman notes that the key for the Mets in any potential deal would be to “fill multiple holes with real impact.” That suggests, unsurprisingly, that new GM Brodie Van Wagenen will not be looking for lower-level prospects. And it also seems to indicate that there’s a rather high asking price for one of the game’s most talented hurlers.

 

Assuming there's some validity to this rumor and Heyman's comment above, a trade to bring Thor to the Twins would likely entail including a major league ready outfielder, infielder and catcher.  Yes, that's a haul, but would prefer giving up some current roster players who can be more easily replaced than one of Lewis or Kirillof.  

 

For example, a player like Kepler would likely be a good fit for NY, but would not necessarily leave a big void in the OF with Cave's presence.  Similarly, a trade chip like Sano would likely be attractive, as well(after all, the upside is still enormous), but he can (and should) be replaced with Josh Donaldson - a better hitter and fielder.  And offering either Castro or Garver would likely fill NY's need for catcher, but still leave the Twins in good shape with Astudillo as reserve.

 

Not saying some other team couldn't top the Twins package, but the FO should be all in for an ace like Thor if they are really serious about competing in 2019.  After all, with money available(assuming Pohlad does not want to pocket the $50MM for his portfolio), and a strong FA class, the Twins could easily fill their gaping holes in the bullpen, at DH, and 1B.  Adding Thor as an ace without having to give up Berrios or Gibson would go a long way to level the field at least in the Central Division.  This is a much bettter move than going after a much older Greineke.

 

The big question remains unanswered : should(and would) the FO go all in now for a 2019 run or should they sit back and wait until the next crop of prospects is ready to contribute in 2021-22?  Big decision here, and unfortunately, I would wager the second approach will be followed.  Too bad, because the window is opening in the Central Division if they go bold.  This truly is a franchise-deciding offseason.

[Kelly Vance]

Romero, Gonsalves and Sano for Thor seems a bit much.  Buck, Meijia, Gonsalves and Castro might draw interest.  Or am I all wet?

[nicksaviking]

Any offer not including Lewis or Kirilloff is a non-starter.

They want an elite position player as the headliner https://elitesportsny.com/2018/11/20/new-york-mets-looking-for-elite-position-player-for-noah-syndergaard-report/

For the record, I would give up Lewis or Kirilloff plus other prospects they're interested in for 3 years of Thor.

That still sounds like they want young elite MLB caliber position players. I’m not sure if the Twins have any of those. Maybe Rosario if he had more than three years of control left. The Mets are probably referring to Juan Soto and Glyber Torres types, which is probably aiming too high. If they want MLB position players, they might need to settle for quantity over quality.

[Han Joelo]

 

 

Personally, I'm still a bit salty about the Johann trade, so I would offer something along the lines of what we got from them. 

 

Yes!  Time to reverse engineer the Santana trade and break free of the bad juju it created.  Lets see:

 

Humber=Stewart

Mulvey= Gonsalves

Gomez= Kepler (Buxton?  Hicks?  Oh wait.)

Guerra= Balazovic?  Alcala?

 

Do it.

[beckmt]

 

Yes!  Time to reverse engineer the Santana trade and break free of the bad juju it created.  Lets see:

 

Humber=Stewart

Mulvey= Gonsalves

Gomez= Kepler (Buxton?  Hicks?  Oh wait.)

Guerra= Balazovic?  Alcala?

 

Do it.

I know the feelings, but Mets will get way more than this from some club. (Houston, NY, maybe the Cubs if they are willing to take Russell).

I might take the gamble and send them Sano (and then make sure I signed Donaldson for a couple to 3 years). Sano + Romero + a lottery ticket is where I would be looking.

[70charger]

Yes!  Time to reverse engineer the Santana trade and break free of the bad juju it created.  Lets see:

 

Humber=Stewart

Mulvey= Gonsalves

Gomez= Kepler (Buxton?  Hicks?  Oh wait.)

Guerra= Balazovic?  Alcala?

 

Do it.

Throw in Duensing and you got yourself a deal.

[DrNeau]

Rooker (or Sano), Cave, Romero, May and Gordon for Thor? Hell no.

[Physics Guy]

Rooker (or Sano), Cave, Romero, May and Gordon for Thor? Hell no.

Rooker (not Sano), Cave, Romero, May and Gordon. Hells yes. Mets say, hell no.

[mike8791]

Further down the MLBTR article, Todd hypothesizes that:

 

It stands to reason that the Mets would seek to land assets with at least some amount of control, rather than pure rentals, but also that they’d prefer players that have established themselves to some extent in the major leagues. It’s possible to imagine the club being intrigued by additions behind the plate, in center field, or just about anywhere in the infield. The bullpen is a clear need as well, though it’s tough to see a reliever driving a deal.

 

Of course, we have no idea if he is correct in this assumption, but interestingly, it would appear the Mets are not looking for starting pitching, but a catcher, infielder and outfielder.  Admittedly, the Twins are thin in these areas, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, Sano and Kepler must still be viewed as "major leaguers" with good upside potential.  Garver more so than Castro, as well.  With the emergence of Cave and Kirillof in a year or two, Kepler mustr be viewed as a valuable trade chip, at least by the Twins, if they are going to snag a top starter on the trade market.  Likewise, while it would hurt to trade Sano at a low point(but his mental as well as physical makeup just seems too big a risk for the Twins to tolerate much longer)  his trade value is certainly higher than any other Twins infielder and thus, might be very attractive to a rebuilding team like the Mets.  But this only makes sense if they could acquire a FA like Donaldson.  

 

Doubtful whether the Twins would give up this much and frankly, just as doubtful that these players would maximize value for Thor.  For example, the Cubs with Russell, Haap, Schwarber and even Contreras would have a lot better chance than the Twins in landing Thor.  All depends on what the Mets are willing to accept here(if they really are serious about trading Thor).

 

The Twins need for a starter to slot in ahead of Berrios is critical if they want to seriously contend in 2019.  Because of his age, contract, and performance, there is no one close to Thor who might be available either on the trade or FA market, so a bidding war is almost sure to emerge.  Doubtful the Twins could win this one, but I sure would hope they'd be in the discussions.

 

It is likely a more veteran pitcher like Greineke or Baumgartner would be more realistic, just in the return that would be needed, but neither one can be viewed as a long term piece of the Twins' rotation.  Here's hoping the FO can land one of these three this offseason, with Thor far and away the gold ring.

[beckmt]

I stand by my comment.  Thor is an ace and they do not come with three years control very often.  Sano + Romero + a third piece or Sano + Gordon + Cave might tempt them enough to do the deal.  You need aces to advance in the playoffs.  Let's start here.

Twins to get to the next level must take the risk.  High risk could very well equal high reward.  We could get burned on Sano, that is the risk, but do not view other two suggested pieces and non replaceable.

[jorgenswest]

I stand by my comment.  Thor is an ace and they do not come with three years control very often.  Sano + Romero + a third piece or Sano + Gordon + Cave might tempt them enough to do the deal.  You need aces to advance in the playoffs.  Let's start here.

Twins to get to the next level must take the risk.  High risk could very well equal high reward.  We could get burned on Sano, that is the risk, but do not view other two suggested pieces and non replaceable.

Someone will offer an A prospect in the package. If anyone is advocating for Syndegaard they really need to be willing to part with an elite prospect plus others in the package. If the Twins enter this negotiation with untouchables it will be a short phone call.

 

I would be willing to deal Lewis or Kiriloff. I would be willing to deal anyone on the 40 man roster other than Berrios who has an extra year of control. Kirilloff is close. He might be the guy the Mets would want to headline the deal. If they see him as low level and want an elite prospect ready to go in April, the Twins might not be a good fit. I don’t see them targeting a guy like Rosario who is already in arbitration and has the same amount of control as Syndegaard.

[nicksaviking]

I wouldn’t think the Mets would be interested in a package based on Sano’s potential, they’d base his value off of his production. I’d think he’d be a complementary piece only. I’d think the only way the Twins could do anything to provide the Mets what they want is for the Mets to be convinced Kepler is an everyday centerfielder. Even if they thought that though, it’s hard to believe other clubs be couldn’t blow the Twins offer out of the water. I don’t think the Twins have enough controllable MLB ready/experienced bats for their own team let alone to satisfy the Mets demands.

[howieramone2]

We have as much young talent as any team in baseball. I would take a shot, if the Met's are doing more than just kicking tires.

[Jham]

The Mets would not accept a package without Lewis. And that might not be what they want. His timetable means we have to give up more than other teams. He has been really good, a top prospect, but it's hard to protect him as an elite MLB star at this point, although further development is sure possible. I think they want Romero or gonsalves and Taylor Rodgers or hildenberger too. i'd probably do it out of sheer boredom. But it certainly has the opportunity to backfire.

 

Of course, why is Syndegaard even for sale unless something's up...

[Doomtints]

Syndergaard is injury prone, He is a couple of years behind Yu Darvish but on the same trajectory.

 

The Twins have enough guys whose body parts are in danger of falling off at any moment.

 

The silver lining is he would be cheap (salary-wise) if the Twins want to take the risk. I would say let some other team dole out prospects for a guy who will max out at 120-140 innings/yr until the inevitable 0-60 innings/yr injury event happens (again).

 

The Twins are (re-)building and sending prospects packing for a guy with this profile when there are 6-8 roles to fill doesn't make sense, in my opinion. The Mets don't need to salary dump the guy so the prospect price will be too high for how much risk this would be taking on.

[SF Twins Fan]

Would Kepler, Gonsalves, Romero and Gordon be enough for the Mets to make the trade? Kepler has a few years of experience, Gonsalves and Romero are both middle of the rotation and potentially a #2 or #3 in a rotation and Gordon even though he struggled this season has a lot of potential. He might not be an all star every year but should be a consistent contributor every season. That would be four players who are either at or knocking on the door of the MLB.

[DocBauer]

Syndergaard is injury prone, He is a couple of years behind Yu Darvish but on the same trajectory.

 

The Twins have enough guys whose body parts are in danger of falling off at any moment.

 

The silver lining is he would be cheap (salary-wise) if the Twins want to take the risk. I would say let some other team dole out prospects for a guy who will max out at 120-140 innings/yr until the inevitable 0-60 innings/yr injury event happens (again).

 

The Twins are (re-)building and sending prospects packing for a guy with this profile when there are 6-8 roles to fill doesn't make sense, in my opinion. The Mets don't need to salary dump the guy so the prospect price will be too high for how much risk this would be taking on.

I have to agree here. I don't believe the FO is planning on punting for 2019 in the least. And I believe we will absolutely see some solid FA signings, possibly a trade, along with a couple 1 year fliers.

 

But I believe them when they are talking about sustained success for the organization. And I feel there are enough questions to be answered from certain players, and certain holes to be filled, that they are not going to go in hard on a front line pitcher until 2020 or mid season 2019 of things break right.

 

And that may be the smartest thing to do. Find that infielder we need for the next couple of years, along with at least one bat, if not two. There may be financial room and roster room to bring in Santana for 1B/DH on a low prospect deal AND sign a guy who can clearly still play in McCutchen, for instance. Shore up the pen with a major signing and probably a bounce back flier.

 

I long for another top SP as well. But with these moves, better health and bounceback/development from on hand talent, maybe we ride a still improving Berrios, the solid Gibson, Pineda and Odorizzi and audition the 5th spot, (openers or not), between Romero, Stewart, Gonsalves, Littell and Thorpe and then make that big move once the FO and new coaching staff really determines what they have.

[DocBauer]

Would Kepler, Gonsalves, Romero and Gordon be enough for the Mets to make the trade? Kepler has a few years of experience, Gonsalves and Romero are both middle of the rotation and potentially a #2 or #3 in a rotation and Gordon even though he struggled this season has a lot of potential. He might be an all star every year but should be a consistent contributor every season. That would be four players who are either at or knocking on the door of the MLB.

Not saying I want to make that deal, but it makes sense to me. When a trade package hurts, it usually means it's a good offer. To me, losing those 4 hurts. So it's probably at least close.

[nicksaviking]

Would Kepler, Gonsalves, Romero and Gordon be enough for the Mets to make the trade? Kepler has a few years of experience, Gonsalves and Romero are both middle of the rotation and potentially a #2 or #3 in a rotation and Gordon even though he struggled this season has a lot of potential. He might not be an all star every year but should be a consistent contributor every season. That would be four players who are either at or knocking on the door of the MLB.

Romero is the only member of that group I’d resent losing, so I’d imagine that’s too light. Sounds like the Mets are most interested in MLB ready offense, multiple pieces too. It’s hard to see Kepler as the centerpiece and only MLB ready bat snagging Syndergaard.

 

Though you never know what other teams value I guess.

[Brandon]

Based on what is mentioned above we can make a package built around the following players:

 

Sano

Buxton

Kepler

Cave

Garver

Maybe Polanco

 

Gordon

Rooker

Killeroff

Lewis

 

May

Rogers

 

We also have several pitching prospects we could trade for other pieces to include in the trade.

 

Maybe trade Romero to the Cubs for Happ (i dont know if we need other prospects to balance trade)

 

But acquired player, Gordon, Garver, and Kepler or Cave and May or Rogers.

 

Getting 5 low cost players will do wonders for the Mets payroll. 3 starters, a role player, and a good reliever. While a reliever will not make or break the deal, one at 1 million who is real good is better than paying 8 million for free agents. This puts the Mets payroll in a good situation we will need a C and reliever to make up for talent traded since we have replacements for the other two.

 

But really we have lots of ways to make a deal work. Its all about making sure we have replacements for who we give up as we dont want too many more holes on our club.

[Major League Ready]

Syndergaard is a true ace entering his prime with 3 years of control. The Mets are going to ask for a ludicrous return. Absolutely no way the Mets trade him if they are no very confident 2 of the players coming back are going to have an impact for several years and the top player coming back will likely have a ceiling to be as impactful as Syndergaard.

 

The only teams that will be willing to play this price are teams that are currently contenders or very close to contention. Houston, NY, or Boston acquiring Syndergaard would have a significant impact on the balance of power among these “super teams”. The enormous cost might be worth it. With McCullers getting TJ, Houston needs a major SP acquisition to keep pace even if they retain Keuchel.

 

Acquiring Syndergaard would also position several NL teams on the same level as the top AL contenders. Atlanta is just starting their window of contention and have the farm system to make the trade. He would make a huge difference in Milwaukee and they can’t afford this type of SP in free agency even if one existed. The Dodgers and Cubs be willing to pay the price to keep pace. 

 

Bottom line is trading for Syndergaard right now makes far more sense for a number of teams not in MN.

[Kelly Vance]

The only way to get Thor is to overpay. 

 

We can use our assets in a better way.

 

I'd like them to sign  a couple stud FAs before Christmas. That makes it easier to tell other guys we are serious about competing. 

[AlwaysinModeration]

The Mets, in addition to potentially taking on Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz from the Mariners, are apparently “motivated” to move on from Noah Syndergaard, according to Kiley Daniels from Fangraphs. https://twitter.com/kileymcd/status/1068199123688583168. Interesting that he notes the new Mets GM happens to have previously been Syndergaard’s agent.

 

A recent MLB Trade Rumors piece says possible trade partners include the Padres (but who wouldn’t trade Fernando Tatis or Mackenzie Gore) or the Brewers.

 

The Mets don’t appear to be afraid to take on salary, and would apparently like established big leaguers and presumably prospects. I guess they view it as being able to get a haul of prospects/established players for Syndergaard, and then they could sign another pitcher like Corbin.

 

He’s 26 years old, projected at $5.9 million in arbitration this year, with two more years of arbitration to go. A quick review of his stats:

 

He’s posted 13 WAR in his 4 seasons, including 4 WAR in 2018. He pitched a max of 180IP in 2016. His career K/9 rate is 9.9, with 2.0BB/9, for a nice 4.94K/BB rate. His career ERA is 2.93, with his high being his rookie year at 3.24. His career WHIP is 1.13, but it was up to 1.21 last year.

 

His pitching repertoire is

Fastball: averaged 97.4mph in 2018, down from 98.3 in 2017 and 98.0 in 2016. Threw it 54% of the time last year.

Slider: average 92mph in 2018, 92.5 in 2017, throws 21% of time

Curveball: average 83mph, 10%

Changeup: average 90mph, 14%

 

In my blueprint (http://twinsdaily.com/topic/31636-create-your-own-offseason-blueprint/page-2?do=findComment&comment=806784) I proposed trading Kepler, Castro, Romero and Gordon. Both Gordon and Romero have made top 100 lists (including Gordon on some this year, although his evaluation is mixed). Kepler and Castro are established big leaguers that the Mets seem to want in deals.

 

I assume the Mets would ask for Royce Lewis, Alex Kiriloff or Brusdar Graterol. Sano would probably come up in conversations as well. Would strongly like to avoid including any of them in a deal. Graterol would be acceptable to trade, I suppose, given his distance from the show, and thus greater uncertainty, but I’d make the other three untouchable. I would consider including Jorge Polanco in any deal, or Gonsalves instead of Romero. I would not like to trade Buxton to get this done. Trevor May, Brent Rooker, or Trevor Larnach would certainly be on the table for such a trade, in my view. Rosario would also need to be on the table, I think. Berrios, no.

 

So here are three possible trades:

 

—Kepler, Castro, Romero, Gordon

 

—Polanco, May, Rooker, Enlow

 

—Rosario, Rodgers, Graterol, Baddoo

 

A rotation that looks like this is starting to look formidable:

 

Syndegaard

Berrios

Gibson

Odorizzi

Pineda/Mejia

 

Would any of my three scenarios above get it done? Would you do any of the three trade options above? I said Lewis, Kiriloff, Sano and Buxton should be untouchable. What trade package would you offer, and who would be off the table for you?

 

And most importantly, doesn’t it just seem inevitable that a guy nicknamed Thor lead a team from The North to battle?

[Tomj14]

I want THOR, but when I look at trades I try to put the shoe on the other foot, would you trade Berrios for any of those options?

I think the only one I would consider would be the last one.

And that one makes the Twins better in starting pitchers, but weaker in the outfield, relief pitching and prospects. I would rather add prospects and subtract Rosario or Rodgers.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

So apparently this still has some legs?

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/31784-i-came-across-this-rumor-and-had-to-ask/?fromsearch=1

 

The gist I got there was NY was looking for major league talent at OF, IF and C. I would offer:

 

Buxton

Gordon

Castro

Gonsalves