Ervin Santana is cooked

[John Kelsey]

Discuss....

[Vanimal46]

.... Is there anything to discuss?

[USAFChief]

Stick a fork in him?

[Mike Sixel]

 If I had any idea how to share media, there would be a Twilight Zone meme here instead of words....

[Doomtints]

I would expect it to take 6-8 weeks for him to be good. Sure, he is worse than "not good" right now, but this wouldn't be the first time the Twins brought someone off the DL at the wrong time.

 

If the Twins have any thoughts at all about bringing him back next year they have to keep letting him play. If he is doing well in September he could be worth a look next year.

[howieramone2]

He's an All-Star compared to Berrios in 2016.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Ervin Santana is cooked

 

Does he taste like chicken?

[South Dakota Tom]

There are several examples of pitchers who could succeed with velo akin to Santana's, but that would be reinventing himself.    The hope of a reinvented Santana is not worth a $13M flier for 2019.    If he cannot regain his previous velocity (which pitching every 5 days to major league hitters will not improve any more than pitching on the side) he is only hurting the team right now.

 

As suggested elsewhere, my first call is to the doctors.    If they believe he will regain his former ability, I think you proceed with that belief into the offseason.    If they don't believe it will happen, well - see Hughes, Phil.

[mickeymental]

he should run for governor.

[jkcarew]

If ever he needed the secret healing juice...he needs it now.  Hopefully, it will be even better...and considerably more secret...than it was in 2015.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

36 year old pitchers don't regain their velocity.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I would probably wait till next season to conclude that personally... that said, no way I pay him 14 M to find out. 

[wsnydes]

Umm, I agree? Not sure what more there is to say.

[alarp33]

Nice season Ervin, better to blame the FO for trading some players than take any personal responsibility for the team's standing. 

[RatherBeGolfing]

Yes

[70charger]

Thank you to Erv for being a nice bright spot in a pretty dismal era for Twins pitching. Especially last year. Man, that was fun. Those first couple months of the season were just insane.

 

I wish him the best in retirement or on his next team.

[mrmpls]

His record here is 30 wins and 25 losses since being a twin, ya he had 1 good year . but out of 4 years he has missed a full year or more? with this injury and the suspension, Ervin,s made over 111, million in his career, . Think he will be ok, But shouldnt be a part of 2019, Good luck Ervin!!

[Vanimal46]

His record here is 30 wins and 35 losses since being a twin, ya he had 1 good year but look at the other 3

He has 30 wins 25 losses.

[jimbo92107]

Cooked? Insufficient data. First, the finger injury is an odd one, so we don't know how long it will keep affecting his delivery. Second, Santana's command is not good, not for him anyway. Hitters are feasting not on any particular pitch, but on pitches that are right down the middle. Third, Santana clearly has been trying to work around his lower velocity heat, but with worse command overall, it's just not working.

 

Assuming Santana gets marginally better during the remainder of this season, his future as a pitcher is hard to predict, but I would not bet against the return of his command. Pitchers can survive with heat around 89 mph, if they scrupulously avoid the middle. Santana has demonstrated command at that level. He may be "cooked" as a front line starter, but he could contribute as a back end starter, possibly and innings eater that does not implode very often.

 

That said, I don't see how Erv fits into a very crowded group of younger, cheaper arms arriving in camp next spring. Best case, Erv is a slightly lower velocity version of Odorizzi. How is that better than Gonsalves, Romero, Thorpe, Pineda, Mejia, etc? Santana's career might not be over, but probably it's over with the Twins.

[Brandon]

I say to the DL with him.  put him on a minor league rehab till the minor league season ends then bring him back up.  Let him get a few more starts in September to finish out the season.  This gives him whats left of this season to find more velo or to figure out how to reinvent himself.

[yarnivek1972]

Maybe he needs to get baked instead. Maybe it would help.

[Vanimal46]

Maybe he needs to get baked instead. Maybe it would help.

Pictured: Ervin after reading your post...

[jimmer]

His 2016 was very nice. IMO, his 2016 season was even better than his 2017 season (also nice). His 2015, after he came back, was nice too. He did well for us overall and was well worth his contract.

[jorgenswest]

His 2016 was very nice. IMO, his 2016 season was even better than his 2017 season (also nice). His 2015, after he came back, was nice too. He did well for us overall and was well worth his contract.

I see two good years out of four. A half year is not OK particularly when you hurt your team and teammates by taking steroids.

 

I will acknowledge his two years is probably better than the expected return for a mid 30s free agent pitcher.

[jimmer]

I see two good years out of four. A half year is not OK particularly when you hurt your team and teammates by taking steroids.

 

I will acknowledge his two years is probably better than the expected return for a mid 30s free agent pitcher.

well, IMO this is about how he pitched for us. Obviously the suspension was bad, but I was looking at his time on the field.

[jorgenswest]

well, IMO this is about how he pitched for us. Obviously the suspension was bad, but I was looking at his time on the field.

It is a team game and the Twins went 1-6 the first week of the season after their newly signed leader of the rotation was suspended. No way does he get a pass with a mediocre 4.00 ERA for half a season combined with a suspension that left the team without their opening day starter.

[jimmer]

It is a team game and the Twins went 1-6 the first week of the season after their newly signed leader of the rotation was suspended. No way does he get a pass with a mediocre 4.00 ERA for half a season combined with a suspension that left the team without their opening day starter.

yeah, you have made your position clear.

[Kelly Vance]

Well, Erv gets criticized because he is only throwing 89-90.

Moya topped out there tonight.

Heck, high schoolers can top that velocity.

 

 

But Erv's velocity is not the problem. He is throwing meatballs is the problem.  A heater at 90 mph in the middle of the plate gets hit.... in MLB, AAA, AA A college, high school, middle school and little league. He is grooving his fastball and getting hit. 

 

But he still knows how to pitch and he can right this ship. Give him time. The decision is stillaways off.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Last year at the trade deadline I really wanted them to trade him. He was pitching out of his mind. I posted a post I can’t find, in which I looked at a bunch of similar pitchers that were his age, and noted that they all were basically out of baseball or in steep decline within the next 1-3 years of being Ervin’s age.

 

He would have netted a good return; at least a couple of decent prospects.

 

Sure, he pitched fine the rest of the year (worse than he did the first four months), and helped them make the playoffs, but he blew the 3-0 lead in the wild card game.

 

If they don’t make the playoffs last year, it’s possible Molitor doesn’t win Manager of the Year, and it’s more likely he is fired this offseason.

 

Too bad they didn’t trade him at the deadline.

[old nurse]

 

Last year at the trade deadline I really wanted them to trade him. He was pitching out of his mind. I posted a post I can’t find, in which I looked at a bunch of similar pitchers that were his age, and noted that they all were basically out of baseball or in steep decline within the next 1-3 years of being Ervin’s age.

He would have netted a good return; at least a couple of decent prospects.

Sure, he pitched fine the rest of the year (worse than he did the first four months), and helped them make the playoffs, but he blew the 3-0 lead in the wild card game.

If they don’t make the playoffs last year, it’s possible Molitor doesn’t win Manager of the Year, and it’s more likely he is fired this offseason.

Too bad they didn’t trade him at the deadline.

Manager of the year awards are not job security for the following year.   In the general public's eye, after Mauer Molitor would be the face of the franchise. 

Given age and money owed to Santana you would have received less than what came back in the Garcia trade unless they were buying the prospects.