Ex-Twins in the Box Scores

[ashbury]

Speed and defense guys are being replaced out of the game by speed and defense guys who also have power. 

That's been the formula since probably the days of Babe Ruth, if not earlier. You would always prefer the latter over the former, taken literally. I assume you mean, though, that you'd give up some of the speed and defense, in return for power, and I agree, and the amount that teams would give up is probably greater than in recent memory. (Or, they'd give up more resources, than ever before, to get that complete package.)

 

I'm assuming also that Ben's arm hasn't exactly gotten better, with age. That factors in just a bit too. His defense is just a smidgen less than his range would otherwise suggest. Hm, he's 30 - how's his range?

[Riverbrian]

 

That's been the formula since probably the days of Babe Ruth, if not earlier. You would always prefer the latter over the former, taken literally. I assume you mean, though, that you'd give up some of the speed and defense, in return for power, and I agree, and the amount that teams would give up is probably greater than in recent memory.

 

I do mean that. 

 

In today's environment, Willie Wilson would have a real hard time reaching 7700 AB's. 

 

I also mean that there are GM's in the game that wouldn't consider Dee Gordon for their roster. 

 

And I also mean that the game is producing more 5 tool players then ever before.

 

The Refrigerator that is also connected to the internet will eventually replace the refrigerator that just keeps your food cool. 

[Squirrel]

Ex-Twin Brian Dozier was scratched from the lineup yesterday due to dizziness. When tested he had an abnormal EKG. Further testing will be done today. Hopefully it’s nothing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I also mean that there are GM's in the game that wouldn't consider Dee Gordon for their roster. 

That's a bit extreme. Gordon was a good 2B for three of the past four seasons (it appears he was injured in 2016, his only sub-3 fWAR season).

 

Then the Mariners moved him to center and... not awesome things happened.

 

Gordon is the type of complementary player most GMs would love to have on the roster unless they have an elite guy already at second.

[nicksaviking]

 

I agree that Gordon would still be attractive at least in some capacity to most teams.

 

However, Revere was drafted in a time when guys like Juan Pierre, Luis Castillo, Eric Young, Chone Figgens, Tom Goodwin, Scott Podsednik and Tony Womack were still having long careers and batting at the top of the order well into their 30's. I don't think that happens much anymore with these kinds of hitters.

 

Like Revere, I'd guess in today's game most of those guys would have had a nice moment or two, find themselves a couple of nice bench gigs after a few seasons before fading out of the game with little fanfare. I'll bet that path is right around the corner for Gordon as well. His IF/OF flexibility might help him stave off extinction more than his bat.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I agree that Gordon would still be attractive at least in some capacity to most teams.

 

However, Revere was drafted in a time when guys like Juan Pierre, Luis Castillo, Eric Young, Chone Figgens, Tom Goodwin, Scott Podsednik and Tony Womack were still having long careers and batting at the top of the order well into their 30's. I don't think that happens much anymore with these kinds of hitters.

 

Like Revere, I'd guess in today's game most of those guys would have had a nice moment or two, find themselves a couple of nice bench gigs after a few seasons before fading out of the game with little fanfare. I'll bet that path is right around the corner for Gordon as well. His IF/OF flexibility might help him stave off extinction more than his bat.

Oh, definitely. I'm just pointing out there's a country mile of difference between Dee Gordon and the likes of Ben Revere.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Speed and defense guys are being replaced out of the game by speed and defense guys who also have power. 

 

Plus, way less balls in play makes those guys way less valuable.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Ex-Twin Brian Dozier was scratched from the lineup yesterday due to dizziness. When tested he had an abnormal EKG. Further testing will be done today. Hopefully it’s nothing.

 

Yikes. Good luck to him!

[stringer bell]

I saw that Dozier was 1-4 yesterday, but did leave the game. I presumed he left the game in a double switch, but maybe it was health related.

 

Edit: The recap says Dozier left in the eighth inning with the symptoms listed.

[Squirrel]

 

I saw that Dozier was 1-4 yesterday, but did leave the game. I presumed he left the game in a double switch, but maybe it was health related.

Edit: The recap says Dozier left in the eighth inning with the symptoms listed.

 

 

Ex-Twin Brian Dozier was scratched from the lineup yesterday due to dizziness. When tested he had an abnormal EKG. Further testing will be done today. Hopefully it’s nothing.

 

I didn't realize he had actually played some and then was removed. I thought he had been removed prior to game start, but I posted my above quoted post this morning.

[nicksaviking]

 

Oh, definitely. I'm just pointing out there's a country mile of difference between Dee Gordon and the likes of Ben Revere.

 

Could be, but I guess I'd still tend to lump him in with the likes of the players I mentioned above. I don't think a guy with a .688 career OPS tends to last long these days. 

 

But above I said his positional flexibility may help him survive. I take that back, it's his salary that'll do it. Ouch, two more years of 13+M/year for stolen bases? He'll be around through 2020 at the very least.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Ouch, two more years of 13+M/year for stolen bases? He'll be around through 2020 at the very least.

Dee Gordon has been a solid 2+ bWAR player the past 5 years. Only thing keeping from that level this year seems to be the move to CF. Not a great value at $13 mil each of the next 2 years, but not really an "ouch" either. (Unless perhaps you're the Mariners and you gave up prospects just to move him to CF...)

[Riverbrian]

 

That's a bit extreme. Gordon was a good 2B for three of the past four seasons (it appears he was injured in 2016, his only sub-3 fWAR season).

 

Then the Mariners moved him to center and... not awesome things happened.

 

Gordon is the type of complementary player most GMs would love to have on the roster unless they have an elite guy already at second.

 

I wasn't comparing Gordon to Revere directly but I was lumping them all into a light hitting speed genre that is losing supporters in this day and age. Don't get me wrong though... I love speed and I fully admit being in love with Revere during his short tenure with the club. Personally, I'd take Dee Gordon on the Twins roster with his new found flexibility of 2B and CF (Even SS) on his resume.

 

I'm saying that there are some GM's that have moved away from this type of light hitting ball player. At the same time... I believe there are old school GM's (like Dipoto) who still find value in Gordon but those old school guys are starting to fade in numbers.  

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "not awesome things happened". If you were referring to his defense... I haven't heard reports of horrible play in CF and the defensive metrics are too small of a sample size to trust, since he made only 39 starts in CF before moving back to 2B before Cano was suspended.

 

If you were referring to his offense... If a position change was impacting his offense... that would make him a china doll and I'm not a sports psychologist.   

 

Players have switched positions without collapse.

 

Besides... I wasn't referring to his current numbers or even saying bad things about Gordon. I was just lumping him into a Genre that includes Ben Revere just like lumping Chris Carter and Aaron Judge into a power hitting genre.

 

There will be degrees of ability in every genre. 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Could be, but I guess I'd still tend to lump him in with the likes of the players I mentioned above. I don't think a guy with a .688 career OPS tends to last long these days. 

 

But above I said his positional flexibility may help him survive. I take that back, it's his salary that'll do it. Ouch, two more years of 13+M/year for stolen bases? He'll be around through 2020 at the very least.

 

The Mariners don't have much of a minor league system so the trade didn't yield much for the Marlins.

 

It looks like a salary dump and the Marlins were undeniably dumping salary during the off season. 

 

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I wasn't comparing Gordon to Revere directly but I was lumping them all into a light hitting speed genre that is losing supporters in this day and age. Don't get me wrong though... I love speed and I fully admit being in love with Revere during his short tenure with the club. Personally, I'd take Dee Gordon on the Twins roster with his new found flexibility of 2B and CF (Even SS) on his resume.

 

I'm saying that there are some GM's that have moved away from this type of light hitting ball player. At the same time... I believe there are old school GM's (like Dipoto) who still find value in Gordon but those old school guys are starting to fade in numbers.  

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "not awesome things happened". If you were referring to his defense... I haven't heard reports of horrible play in CF and the defensive metrics are too small of a sample size to trust, since he made only 39 starts in CF before moving back to 2B before Cano was suspended.

 

If you were referring to his offense... If a position change was impacting his offense... that would make him a china doll and I'm not a sports psychologist. 

 

Players have switched positions without collapse.

 

Besides... I wasn't referring to his current numbers or even saying bad things about Gordon. I was just lumping him into a Genre that includes Ben Revere just like lumping Chris Carter and Aaron Judge into a power hitting genre.

 

There will be degrees of ability in every genre. 

I'm not sure this is old vs. new. A guy like Dee is still valuable when you have an Escobar on the team. The flexibility thing is that you have a 4th guy who play 3 OF spots at a starting level or 4 IF spots at a similar level. There's still plenty of other guys on the team. Yeah, having an IF that can play some corner is beneficial, but it's the Escobar/Zorbrist type that gives the manager a ton of room to work with. 

 

Everyone doesn't need to do this. You just need a few that can provide the flexibility to give the manager options. 

[Riverbrian]

 

I'm not sure this is old vs. new. A guy like Dee is still valuable when you have an Escobar on the team. The flexibility thing is that you have a 4th guy who play 3 OF spots at a starting level or 4 IF spots at a similar level. There's still plenty of other guys on the team. Yeah, having an IF that can play some corner is beneficial, but it's the Escobar/Zorbrist type that gives the manager a ton of room to work with. 

 

Everyone doesn't need to do this. You just need a few that can provide the flexibility to give the manager options. 

 

Diehard... You had me at Hello. 

 

You are preaching to the choir. I would welcome Dee Gordon to my roster because I like guys who can move around. I see the value in that and like I said... I like speed. 

 

But, I do believe that we are no longer talking about a 5 year 50 million guy. Not because his skills have declined but because his skills that produced the 5 year 50 million are not as valuable today. 

[Squirrel]

Back on topic ... Ryan LaMarre hit his 1st MLB homerun tonight against the Tigers.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Back on topic ... Ryan LaMarre hit his 1st MLB homerun tonight against the Tigers.

 

Wow! Is that on topic, btw?

[ashbury]

Wow! Is that on topic, btw?

Ex-Twin? Check.

In the Box Scores? Check.

 

[Han Joelo]

I came here hoping to find out what Brian Dozier had for breakfast, and instead I'm reading about Ryan Lamarre.  Come on, stay on topic, people!  I think he had a breakfast burrito.  The burrito is one of the most versatile food delivery systems out there, if not the most versatile.  I have a son who would wrap up a bag of gummy worms in a tortilla and call it dinner if I let him.

 

I kid of course--glad to see Doze back in action, and Esco smashing dingers.  Valencia on the street again.    Niko Goodrum (sounds like the name of a James Bond CIA buddy) still cruising the big leagues in a Chevy Nova.  Somebody pointing out the Giants may have finally got there karmic return for the A.J. trade via D-Rod (and also pointing out that the only other person the Twins drafted that year to make the big leagues was...Jason Wheeler.). Fernando Rodney has three appearances with the A's, 1-0, 3Ks, 0BBs, 2 hits in three innings.  Hat still crooked; invisible bow and arrow has not been sighted. Duke helped the Mariners sweep the Astros, picking up a hold and a win.  Brandon Kintzler was not Deep Throat.

 

Also, ex-(and future?) Twin Byron Buxton had a good game.  My in depth research noted that his three run homer came off of the one pitcher, out of four that appeared, who had the lowest ERA of the group.

[AceWrigley]

Kudos to the Dodger's Brian Dozier who hit game winning sac fly in the bottom of the 12th to beat the Giants 4-3. He also had a double and 2 walks a day after being removed from a game for an irregular heart beat. I guess it was sinus medication being bad; he's ok. Rock on man!

[Vanimal46]

Old friend Phil Hughes was released by San Diego... He had a 6.10 ERA in 16 appearances for them.

[yarnivek1972]

Old friend Phil Hughes was released by San Diego... He had a 6.10 ERA in 16 appearances for them.

Wonder if Hughes will latch on somewhere next year. They basically would get him for free.

[Vanimal46]

Wonder if Hughes will latch on somewhere next year. They basically would get him for free.

Meh. Maybe on a minor league deal. He hasn't been MLB quality since 2015. Pretty sure it's over for him.

[yarnivek1972]

Meh. Maybe on a minor league deal. He hasn't been MLB quality since 2015. Pretty sure it's over for him.

That’s all any team would need to do. It’s literally zero risk. Maybe he can learn a knuckle ball.

[old nurse]

I see Lance Lynn was doing well again  https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/yankees-lance-lynn-had-a-first-inning-to-forget/

[Otto von Ballpark]

Wonder if Hughes will latch on somewhere next year. They basically would get him for free.

As my wife tells me when I browse Craigslist, lots of things are free but still not worth the price.

[Otto von Ballpark]

That’s all any team would need to do. It’s literally zero risk. Maybe he can learn a knuckle ball.

The same could be said about every player available in minor league free agency. Yet we know that some will be valuable, and a team can't sign and evaluate every one of them. I hope my team would target their selections a little more carefully than "meh, he's free."

[akmanak]

The Dozier trade is looking better and better. He went 0 for 4 again tonight.

[jorgenswest]

The Dozier trade is looking better and better. He went 0 for 4 again tonight.

How does that make the trade look better?