Ex-Twins in the Box Scores

[Doctor Wu]

 

I think this is good perspective.  I wouldn't mind having Goodrum as a utility infielder with some pop.  Palka on the other hand...guys that can only play corner outfield...poorly...are below average on the bases...and wRC+ at a 102 clip are not rare or particularly valuable.  Not that both aren't young enough, new enough to MLB pitching, to still get better.

I agree, Guys like Palka are a dime a dozen, But I like Goodrum's versatility. Always liked him as a minor league player, but frankly I'm shocked at how much power he's shown this year. And I'm guessing the Twins brass that let him go are surprised too!

[yarnivek1972]

Interesting take that guys like Palka are a dime a dozen. Then why haven’t the Twins had many?

 

They have run stiffs like Dustan Mohr, Brian Buchanan, RonDL White, Jason Tyner, Delmon Young, Josh Willingham, Darrin Mastroianni, Ryan Doumit out to the corners the last 15 years. The only guys that were better than what Palka has done this year were Jacque Jones (and he was really only BETTER one year), Shannon Stewart, Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel.

[Rosterman]

Lynn was a good one-season pickup and should've pitched better (I luv the guy, pitched for my fantasy teams...in the past). The Twins did get a decent return on someone who was using the Twins to build value (didn't happen) for another season down the road.

 

Pressly was closer material for a rebuilding team, perhaps(but I also felt that way about Jesse Crain). Molitor overworked the guy this season.

 

Overall, the Twins got a decent haul. Will be interesting to see what offers Dozier and Escobar entertain in the off-season. I don't want to say Dozier might end up with a career like Trevor Plouffe after leaving the Twins, he is better than that...but...

 

I'm really glad the Twins didn't need to argue about accepting the offer to keep Rodney for 2019.

 

Too bad they couldn't market Logan Morrison and Ervin Santana for anything, something, in return. I was also surprised that Addison Reed failed to draw interest.

[yarnivek1972]

Lynn was a good one-season pickup and should've pitched better (I luv the guy, pitched for my fantasy teams...in the past). The Twins did get a decent return on someone who was using the Twins to build value (didn't happen) for another season down the road.

 

Pressly was closer material for a rebuilding team, perhaps(but I also felt that way about Jesse Crain). Molitor overworked the guy this season.

 

Overall, the Twins got a decent haul. Will be interesting to see what offers Dozier and Escobar entertain in the off-season. I don't want to say Dozier might end up with a career like Trevor Plouffe after leaving the Twins, he is better than that...but...

 

I'm really glad the Twins didn't need to argue about accepting the offer to keep Rodney for 2019.

 

Too bad they couldn't market Logan Morrison and Ervin Santana for anything, something, in return. I was also surprised that Addison Reed failed to draw interest.

Seeing as all 3 have been impacted by injury to the point of borderline ineffectiveness, I’m not surprised at all.

[Winston Smith]

Dozier is hitting (or not hitting) .088 the last 2 weeks. Interesting to see what kind of contract he gets this winter, he sure has fallen off a cliff.

[Mr. Brooks]

Interesting take that guys like Palka are a dime a dozen. Then why haven’t the Twins had many?

 

They have run stiffs like Dustan Mohr, Brian Buchanan, RonDL White, Jason Tyner, Delmon Young, Josh Willingham, Darrin Mastroianni, Ryan Doumit out to the corners the last 15 years. The only guys that were better than what Palka has done this year were Jacque Jones (and he was really only BETTER one year), Shannon Stewart, Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel.

What am I missing with Palka?

He's got 0.1 bWAR in 104 games. He's the definition of replacement level.

[jokin]

 

Interesting take that guys like Palka are a dime a dozen. Then why haven’t the Twins had many?

They have run stiffs like Dustan Mohr, Brian Buchanan, RonDL White, Jason Tyner, Delmon Young, Josh Willingham, Darrin Mastroianni, Ryan Doumit out to the corners the last 15 years. The only guys that were better than what Palka has done this year were Jacque Jones (and he was really only BETTER one year), Shannon Stewart, Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel.

 

What am I missing with Palka?
He's got 0.1 bWAR in 104 games. He's the definition of replacement level.

 

Definition of replacement level? Crazy, deceptive WAR stat logic in play, yet again.

 

Palka's .757 OPS would place him 3rd on the Twins, behind only Rosario and Cave. His 21 HRs and .471 SLG (also 3rd best if a Twin) would look awesome in this lineup batting 4th or 5th. (Joe Mauer, by contrast, is in 8th place on the Twins at .709)

 

Guys who primarily DH don't give much love in terms of WAR.

 

Is he the 2nd coming? Nope. He's striking out a ton in his rookie season. But still... a Major Mis-assessment of Palka by the FO- dime a dozen? Evidently the FO was counting nickels, instead.

[yarnivek1972]

What am I missing with Palka?

He's got 0.1 bWAR in 104 games. He's the definition of replacement level.

It’s not that Palka is particular special. It’s that the Twins have managed not to consistently have players like him for 20 years. Oh, a few here and there. But not nearly as many as they should. It’s more an indictment on the sorry state of the franchise the last 20 years than props to Palka.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Interesting take that guys like Palka are a dime a dozen. Then why haven’t the Twins had many?

They have run stiffs like Dustan Mohr, Brian Buchanan, RonDL White, Jason Tyner, Delmon Young, Josh Willingham, Darrin Mastroianni, Ryan Doumit out to the corners the last 15 years. The only guys that were better than what Palka has done this year were Jacque Jones (and he was really only BETTER one year), Shannon Stewart, Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel.

It's almost as if wRC+ is only an offensive metric...

 

There's a reason why Palka has an fWAR close to zero.

[Mr. Brooks]

Definition of replacement level? Crazy, deceptive WAR stat logic in play, yet again.

 

Palka's .757 OPS would place him 3rd on the Twins, behind only Rosario and Cave. His 21 HRs and .471 SLG (also 3rd best if a Twin) would look awesome in this lineup batting 4th or 5th. (Joe Mauer, by contrast, is in 8th place on the Twins at .709)

 

Guys who primarily DH don't give much love in terms of WAR.

 

Is he the 2nd coming? Nope. He's striking out a ton in his rookie season. But still... a Major Mis-assessment of Palka by the FO- dime a dozen? Evidently the FO was counting nickels, instead.

It would be pretty tough to win a game with a pitcher and 8 DH's.

DH are penalized for good reason.

A DH needs much more bat than .757 to be impactful.

 

Baseball is more than just a hitting contest.

[ashbury]

Not to pile on, but Palka's .757 OPS in the majors, with barely adequate defense in one of the corner outfield positions, could easily be matched or exceeded by any of the 30 or so guys who are OPSing above .900 at AAA. A lot of these guys are age 25 or above, so they're not all hot prospects who couldn't be pried away. They wouldn't be better. But they wouldn't be worse. And you could stick nearly anybody, such as these guys, in right or left and get what Palka brings you on defense - not to mention the games Palka DHs.

 

Palka. Could. Be. Replaced.

 

At. Little. Cost.

 

So he's replacement level, unless and until he finds a way to step up some aspect of his game.

[Rosterman]

Palka? One that got away. Hopefully Tyler Austin does as well for the Twins. But, again, may be one of those one-year winners. Right now,Palka should be looking at a foreign contract!

[Winston Smith]

 

Not to pile on, but Palka's .757 OPS in the majors, with barely adequate defense in one of the corner outfield positions, could easily be matched or exceeded by any of the 30 or so guys who are OPSing above .900 at AAA. A lot of these guys are age 25 or above, so they're not all hot prospects who couldn't be pried away. They wouldn't be better. But they wouldn't be worse. And you could stick nearly anybody, such as these guys, in right or left and get what Palka brings you on defense - not to mention the games Palka DHs.

 

Palka. Could. Be. Replaced.

 

At. Little. Cost.

 

So he's replacement level, unless and until he finds a way to step up some aspect of his game.

If it's so easy why do we get to watch Grossman all year with his low .700 something ops?

[USAFChief]

If it's so easy why do we get to watch Grossman all year with his low .700 something ops?

Our DHs this year have posted a .686 OPS. 79 OPS+.

[ashbury]

If it's so easy why do we get to watch Grossman all year with his low .700 something ops?

You will search in vain for much defense of Grossman from these quarters.

 

Although, Replacement Level doesn't mean, cut summarily from the roster. It just means, don't get too worked up, one way or another. If we didn't have Grossman, we'd have Palka. If we didn't have Palka, we'd have Brian O'Grady from the Reds, or any of several clones.

 

Johnny Field probably comes to mind, too, on a different scale of fungibility - tweener CF glove, weak bat.

 

Anybody a step up from these guys... that's what is scarce. Palka's not scarce, is my point.

[big dog]

I was disappointed to lose Palka for nothing, but right now I'm too busy being frustrated about Hicks and Rodriguez to worry about Palka.

[jokin]

 

It would be pretty tough to win a game with a pitcher and 8 DH's.
DH are penalized for good reason.
A DH needs much more bat than .757 to be impactful.

Baseball is more than just a hitting contest.

 

Yup. But, but the American League created a new position- and pays hitters quite handsomely just to hit. Not properly reflected in the WAR metric.

 

You're still playing by the rules imposed by the WAR gods. It's blatantly apparent that on the 2018 MN Twins-  acknowledging that he will likely never be long-term a cut above the available prototypical DH/OF-  Palka's numbers would have been impactful, relative to the alternatives. And the FO mis-assessed and went with the alternatives.

 

Quick quiz:

 

Palka or Grossman in your lineup at DH?

[bird]

 

Yup. 

 

Palka or Grossman in your lineup at DH?

 

 

Nope. 

[ashbury]

 

Here's an interesting thought experiment:

There are two teams.

One team is full of great hitters, 1 through 9, these are .950 OPS, 40 HR types of guys, don't strike out much, can draw a walk, but they are sloppy with the defense, all of them, and some in fact are downright terrible (the worst one is trying to hide in left or right field). Also, let's say they don't run much and are station to station baserunners.

The other team is full of defensive whizzes, who make all the plays, throw to the right bases, great range, great gloves, rarely make an error, but are sub-.200 hitters.

The great offense hits against the great fielders, and the poor hitters hit into the poor defense.

All pitching is equal.

They play a game. What happens?

Now, the two teams play a 162-game season against each other. How does that turn out?

I've been as guilty as anyone in exploring a tangent or two here, but this is Ex-Twins in the Box Scores. Do you mind if I split this one off, as a thread of its own (probably in Sports Bar)? Or, if Cut'n'paste is easy for you, just start one yourself?

[Otto von Ballpark]

I've been as guilty as anyone in exploring a tangent or two here, but this is Ex-Twins in the Box Scores.

What if the 18 combined hypothetical great hitters and defensive whizzes are all ex-Twins?

[ashbury]

What if the 18 combined hypothetical great hitters and defensive whizzes are all ex-Twins?

[USAFChief]

What if the 18 combined hypothetical great hitters and defensive whizzes are all ex-Twins?

Now we know for SURE it’s hypothetical.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yup. But, but the American League created a new position- and pays hitters quite handsomely just to hit. Not properly reflected in the WAR metric.

 

You're still playing by the rules imposed by the WAR gods. It's blatantly apparent that on the 2018 MN Twins- acknowledging that he will likely never be long-term a cut above the available prototypical DH/OF- Palka's numbers would have been impactful, relative to the alternatives. And the FO mis-assessed and went with the alternatives.

 

Quick quiz:

 

Palka or Grossman in your lineup at DH?

His OPS barely above league average, which includes catchers and shortstops and centerfielders.

So, I don't agree that Palka hits enough to have any value at DH.

 

Just because the Twins are also trotting out replacement level DH/ reserve corner outfielders doesn't change that he's a replacement level player.

 

I'd hope the answer is neither to guys like him or Grossman.

[yarnivek1972]

You will search in vain for much defense of Grossman from these quarters.

 

Although, Replacement Level doesn't mean, cut summarily from the roster. It just means, don't get too worked up, one way or another. If we didn't have Grossman, we'd have Palka. If we didn't have Palka, we'd have Brian O'Grady from the Reds, or any of several clones.

 

Johnny Field probably comes to mind, too, on a different scale of fungibility - tweener CF glove, weak bat.

 

Anybody a step up from these guys... that's what is scarce. Palka's not scarce, is my point.

Not scarce in MLB. Just scarce on the Twins roster. For the last 15 years.

[yarnivek1972]

It's almost as if wRC+ is only an offensive metric...

 

There's a reason why Palka has an fWAR close to zero.

Of the players I listed, only Mastriaonni and Mohr would be considered plus defenders.

[old nurse]

 

Interesting take that guys like Palka are a dime a dozen. Then why haven’t the Twins had many?

They have run stiffs like Dustan Mohr, Brian Buchanan, RonDL White, Jason Tyner, Delmon Young, Josh Willingham, Darrin Mastroianni, Ryan Doumit out to the corners the last 15 years. The only guys that were better than what Palka has done this year were Jacque Jones (and he was really only BETTER one year), Shannon Stewart, Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel.

Palka is only better if you ignore his inability to play defense and only look at OPS

[Riverbrian]

 

If it's so easy why do we get to watch Grossman all year with his low .700 something ops?

 

Just to show how easy it is. 

 

Finding average to below average players isn't a Ringo Starr song. It's a Buddy Holly Song. 

[old nurse]

 

Definition of replacement level? Crazy, deceptive WAR stat logic in play, yet again.

 

Palka's .757 OPS would place him 3rd on the Twins, behind only Rosario and Cave. His 21 HRs and .471 SLG (also 3rd best if a Twin) would look awesome in this lineup batting 4th or 5th. (Joe Mauer, by contrast, is in 8th place on the Twins at .709)

 

Guys who primarily DH don't give much love in terms of WAR.

 

Is he the 2nd coming? Nope. He's striking out a ton in his rookie season. But still... a Major Mis-assessment of Palka by the FO- dime a dozen? Evidently the FO was counting nickels, instead.

Astudillo, nor Austin, count?  and the time Escobar, played does not count?   By woba Palka is no better than 10 other Twins.  Pick your stat to back your point and ignore the rest.

The people who figured out WAR figure that defense matters in an overall player's value.  Playing good defense adds, playing poorly subtracts.

[Doctor Wu]

Dozier went 1-for-1 yesterday, RAISING his batting average to a robust .189 for the Dodgers (his OBP is .302). Looking like his free agent dreams won't be too lucrative.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Palka hit a a home run which, well, almost stood for a 1-0 win over Cleveland.

 

I was listening to the game as i drove into western Pennsylvania, and lost radio signal in the 9th.

 

Since there is no Twins game tonight, i'm watching to see if Boston can clinch their division in Yankee Stadium.

 

As always, their games are very slow. Advertisers win, audience loses. I hope Hicks does something of note... I miss being able to follow ex-Twin David Ortiz in the box scores!