Yahoo Sports Says Both Twins and Cardinals Pursuing Trade with Rays for Chris Archer

[strumdatjaguar]

Just read it on Yahoo Sports.  Apparently, the Twins want to see if they can sign Yu Darvish first.  I'd rather have the younger Chris Archer (great contract), but don't tell that to my Japanese, Twins-fan Mother-in-Law.

[AZTwin]

Why is Archer's cost so high?  I get that he strikes out a lot of guys but look at that ERA.  Seems like a 3 or 4 at best.

[Roaddog]

I like both, but Darvish is better.

[nicksaviking]

Archer is making peanuts, go get them both, the team would be a real contender then. If for some reason Archer's 6M is too much after signing Darvish, unload Santana.

 

But exciting news either way!

[gunnarthor]

 

Why is Archer's cost so high?  I get that he strikes out a lot of guys but look at that ERA.  Seems like a 3 or 4 at best.

A few reasons but the main one is that contract is pretty good.

His era and era+ aren't anything great but people who like fip like him a lot more. I think there's probably a middle ground but I don't think Archer is an ace like some do. But if you're the Rays, you're demanding a big return because supply/demand favors you and his contract is reasonable enough that they don't have to move him.

[Craig Arko]

Archer is making peanuts, go get them both, the team would be a real contender then. If for some reason Archer's 6M is too much after signing Darvish, unload Santana.

But exciting news either way!

Nothing to it.

[Old Twins Cap]

Finally, the hot stove.

[mikelink45]

Archer please.  I want a younger, livelier arm.  I am worried that Darvish is turning that inevitable corner.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Just read it on Yahoo Sports.  Apparently, the Twins want to see if they can sign Yu Darvish first.  I'd rather have the younger Chris Archer (great contract), but don't tell that to my Japanese, Twins-fan Mother-in-Law.

 

 

[jorgenswest]

Chris Archer and Jose Quintana are good comps. They are about the same age. They have a similar amount of team control. They have nearly the same fWAR over past three seasons. They both had relatively poorer 2017 campaigns to their previous two seasons. The Rays should be seeking a deal similar to that of Quintana or be patient.

 

Quintana’s return was Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Bryant Flete and Matt Rose. The Twins can’t match a prospect like Jimenez so they will need to give up their best and then do better with one of the other pieces. Crease has been in the top 100 and a Sickels B+ last season. Flete and Rose are C prospects.

 

It is going to hurt and will gut the system but it must start by giving the Rays the choice of Lewis/Gordon and choice of Gonsalves/Romero plus another B prospect. Even with Tommy John if Alex Reyes is in the conversation I don’t think the Twins can top the Cardinals in this deal.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Just read it on Yahoo Sports.  Apparently, the Twins want to see if they can sign Yu Darvish first.  I'd rather have the younger Chris Archer (great contract), but don't tell that to my Japanese, Twins-fan Mother-in-Law.

Link?  I looked for it on Yahoo Sports, but only this article mention the Cardinals interest. 

[Nine of twelve]

Darvish will cost money whereas Archer will cost prospects. I'm not Jim Pohlad but I'd rather spend money.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Chris Archer and Jose Quintana are good comps. They are about the same age. They have a similar amount of team control. They have nearly the same fWAR over past three seasons. They both had relatively poorer 2017 campaigns to their previous two seasons. The Rays should be seeking a deal similar to that of Quintana or be patient.

Quintana’s return was Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Bryant Flete and Matt Rose. The Twins can’t match a prospect like Jimenez so they will need to give up their best and then do better with one of the other pieces. Crease has been in the top 100 and a Sickels B+ last season. Flete and Rose are C prospects.

It is going to hurt and will gut the system but it must start by giving the Rays the choice of Lewis/Gordon and choice of Gonsalves/Romero plus another B prospect. Even with Tommy John if Alex Reyes is in the conversation I don’t think the Twins can top the Cardinals in this deal.

Ummm, Lewis/Gordon are not even remotely of comparable value after Gordon's terrible 2nd half and Lewis's excellent post-draft debut. When he was first drafted they were considered around equal prospects, but not anymore. 

 

It may be that the Rays will ask for Lewis plus either Gonsalves/Romero, but neither team is going to be indifferent between Lewis and Gordon. Not by a long shot. 

 

I personally would be very reluctant to give up Lewis for Archer, but I also realize the chances of getting Archer without giving up Lewis are probably pretty low. You don't give up a player like Archer for a couple B+ prospects. You want an A or borderline A prospect. 

[70charger]

 

Ummm, Lewis/Gordon are not even remotely of comparable value

 

 

I mean, they absolutely are. 

 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/10/24/16537288/minnesota-twins-top-20-prospects-for-2018

 

A- vs. A-/B+. #1 vs. #2. Floor vs. Ceiling. Yeah, they're comparable, especially when you consider immediate needs. In fact, I'll bet I could find you some teams that would want Gordon even when their evaluations lead them to believe that Lewis is better, simply because they can plug Gordon into the lineup pretty much now.

 

Fine if you like Lewis better; I mean, I guess I do too, but it's close. But "not even remotely comparable"? That's hyperbolic.

[DocBauer]

Darvish will cost money whereas Archer will cost prospects. I'm not Jim Pohlad but I'd rather spend money.

This is where I'm at too.

 

I like a lot of what Archer brings, though I don't like his ERA the past 2 years. (Know ERA isn't everything, just like W/L). He pitches 200 innings, gets lots of SO. But he's 29. Is he ready for the next step? Could he become truly dominate the next few years? And are we ready to give up 4-5 really good prospects to get him?

 

Darvish keeps the prospects at home for depth, competition, and the promotion the next few years. Part of the reason I think Darvish is the priority is not only talent, but keeping the system flush for the future, and future trades as well.

 

If it's one or the other, I take Darvish. If we can get both??? OK, do it and GO FOR IT! Then move Gibson for what you can get, probably lower level guys with upside, and maybe a bullpen flip mid season for similar.

[jud6312]

Found this on NESN: https://nesn.com/2018/01/mlb-rumors-rays-in-trade-talks-over-chris-archer-twins-cardinals-interested/

[DocBauer]

I mean, they absolutely are.

 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/10/24/16537288/minnesota-twins-top-20-prospects-for-2018

 

A- vs. A-/B+. #1 vs. #2. Floor vs. Ceiling. Yeah, they're comparable, especially when you consider immediate needs. In fact, I'll bet I could find you some teams that would want Gordon even when their evaluations lead them to believe that Lewis is better, simply because they can plug Gordon into the lineup pretty much now.

 

Fine if you like Lewis better; I mean, I guess I do too, but it's close. But "not even remotely comparable"? That's hyperbolic.

I have come on board the Gordon train the last year or so after being "meh" on his initial drafting. Talented, filled with potential, and still very young, I'm not too wrapped up in his half season of "collapse" last season.

 

No matter how much I like Lewis, he is still a teenager with half a pro season, no matter how good it was. There's at least a middle ground there somewhere, isn't there? I find it interesting how the waves great and dive from half season to half season sometimes with prospects.

 

Not so sure Javier isn't the best of them all and have said so before.

 

Still not sure I wouldn't keep everyone and focus on Darvish and be super-happy with him and hold on to prospects for NOW.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Chris Archer and Jose Quintana are good comps. They are about the same age. They have a similar amount of team control. They have nearly the same fWAR over past three seasons. They both had relatively poorer 2017 campaigns to their previous two seasons. The Rays should be seeking a deal similar to that of Quintana or be patient.

Quintana’s return was Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Bryant Flete and Matt Rose. The Twins can’t match a prospect like Jimenez so they will need to give up their best and then do better with one of the other pieces. Crease has been in the top 100 and a Sickels B+ last season. Flete and Rose are C prospects.

It is going to hurt and will gut the system but it must start by giving the Rays the choice of Lewis/Gordon and choice of Gonsalves/Romero plus another B prospect. Even with Tommy John if Alex Reyes is in the conversation I don’t think the Twins can top the Cardinals in this deal.

That is a nice comparison. Unfortunately, Quintana is probably (well, is ) the better pitcher, though not necessarily by much, and Quintana also fetched a top prospect.

 

However, I think Gonsalves or Romero are easily better bets than Cease, who was the only other pitcher involved in that deal. Cease has yet to reach AA ball. To close the rest of the value gap, maybe you offer to address their present needs -- maybe the Rays like Vargas or Garver, or would take a chance on a relief pitcher like Chargois. Maybe the Twins then ask for a piece in return. 

 

Leaving Lewis out of the deal, could you see a fair offer for Archer that consists of: Gordon, Gonsalves or Romero, plus another MLB-ready piece or lower minors pitcher? 

 

[jorgenswest]

I can’t see leaving Lewis out of the deal and still coming up with the best offer. It is going to hurt to get a pitcher. At one point Sano might have helped but the allegations against him really hurt his value. Guys like Rosario and Kepler just won’t help get a good pitcher. Corner outfielders unless they are elite won’t have enough value.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The Twins have a productive, young core of a lineup. Gordon will arrive maybe this year, but they really don't need any position players to graduate for a few more years. Rooker or Lewis aren't going anywhere.

 

 

[Blackjack]

 

This is where I'm at too.

I like a lot of what Archer brings, though I don't like his ERA the past 2 years. (Know ERA isn't everything, just like W/L). He pitches 200 innings, gets lots of SO. But he's 29. Is he ready for the next step? Could he become truly dominate the next few years? And are we ready to give up 4-5 really good prospects to get him?

Darvish keeps the prospects at home for depth, competition, and the promotion the next few years. Part of the reason I think Darvish is the priority is not only talent, but keeping the system flush for the future, and future trades as well.

If it's one or the other, I take Darvish. If we can get both??? OK, do it and GO FOR IT! Then move Gibson for what you can get, probably lower level guys with upside, and maybe a bullpen flip mid season for similar.

 

Go for it??? And gut the farm system??? No!!!!!!!! I'd rather see them build for some long term sustainable success.

[jorgenswest]

Darvish is first choice but ultimately it may be easier to persuade the Rays to trade Archer than persuade Darvish to sign with the Twins.

[Thrylos]

 

Darvish will cost money whereas Archer will cost prospects. I'm not Jim Pohlad but I'd rather spend money.

 

And let the prospects go away in a Rule 5 draft or as minor league free agents...

[Thrylos]

 

Why is Archer's cost so high?  I get that he strikes out a lot of guys but look at that ERA.  Seems like a 3 or 4 at best.

 

And that win-loss record is horrible as well

/sarcasm

[Nine of twelve]

And let the prospects go away in a Rule 5 draft or as minor league free agents...

Do you think the Rays would trade Archer for prospects that would be likely to be available as Rule 5 choices? I certainly don't. It will take at least one very high level prospect to land Archer.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Archer is making peanuts, go get them both, the team would be a real contender then. If for some reason Archer's 6M is too much after signing Darvish, unload Santana.

 

But exciting news either way!

or, figure out how to unload Hughes. If not Hughes, Gibson. Santana is due to regress, but even regressed Santana is better than either of those two.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Do you think the Rays would trade Archer for prospects that would be likely to be available as Rule 5 choices? I certainly don't. It will take at least one very high level prospect to land Archer.

The point is not the Rule 5, the point is that there is not room for everyone. Gordon and Lewis cannot both be the shortstop of the future.

[Thrylos]

 

Do you think the Rays would trade Archer for prospects that would be likely to be available as Rule 5 choices? I certainly don't. It will take at least one very high level prospect to land Archer.

 

Sure.  Where do you see Nick Gordon and Stephen Gonsalves play the next 3 seasons?

[Winston Smith]

Just sign Cobb and save the prospects and/or a lot of money. Probably close to the same value for a lot less.

[twinsfanstreif]

So what are we looking at as far as prospects? I'm bad at evaluating these kind of things