Article: Tampa Open To Trades

[Cody Christie]

Earlier this week, Tampa Bay made an organization-altering trade. Evan Longoria has been the face of the Rays organization for the majority of the last decade. The Rays dealt Longoria to the Giants as he enters his age-32 season. It will be weird to see him in different colors than Tampa’s but the Rays seem to be shifting toward a new direction.

 

Could Minnesota take advantage of Tampa’s need to part with higher-paid players?Marc Topkin ofThe Tampa Bay Times reported that the Rays are “open to trading most of their higher-paid players.” Those players would include former All-Star Chris Archer, a starting pitcher, and closer Alex Colome. Both of these players are going to come at a high cost. There are other options in Tampa though and those might be the players Minnesota should target.

 

Archer is under team control for four more years for only $34 million. He has a decent track record and he’s under 30-years old. Colome was an All-Star in 2016 and he is arbitration eligible for the first time in 2018. That means he can be a free agent until 2021. That being said, it is going to take a king’s ransom to pry either of them out of Tampa.

Another trade target for Minnesota could be right-handed pitcher Jake Odorizzi. Over the last three seasons, he’s pitched over 500 innings with a 3.71 ERA and a 1.19 WHIP. Compared to the players above, he has fewer years of team control as he will be a free agent in 2020. He could come at a cheaper cost based on his years of control and his 2017 performance.

At the Winter Meetings, the Rays were not in much of a hurry to deal away any assets. However, things have changed with Longoria being dealt. If Tampa wants to capitalize on Odorizzi’s value, this off-season might be the opportunity to trade him. Tampa might run out of options as Odorizzi moves closer to free agency.

 

If the Twins are serious about dealing with Tampa, Odorizzi seems like the most likely target. Archer would instantly become the Twins’ ace but the Twins might not have the prospects to strike a deal. My guess is Royce Lewis would need to be included and Minnesota is unlikely to part with their top prospect. Colome could help the Twins to get closer to a “super bullpen” but he would also come at quite the cost.

 

Tampa isn’t going to be trading away their top assets for peanuts. Small market organization like Tampa are built on being smart with their assets and trading away pieces with value to rebuild. The Rays are open to trades and Minnesota needs to be smart about this opportunity.

 

If the right deal can be struck, Minnesota should pounce on the opportunity. Otherwise, it might be better to look for other available options on the starting pitching market.

 

Should Minnesota target any of Tampa’s trade assets? Leave a COMMENT and start the discussion.

 

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[Otwins]

Have we ever made a good trade with Tampa? Hope we don't over pay for Odorizzi.  I do not feel he would be a difference maker.

[nicksaviking]

Any trade for a starter is going to be painful. I'd pay extra to get the better pitcher for four years than the lesser pitcher for two.

 

No more half measures.

[old nurse]

Archer is still only 6-7 million a year. Kyle Gibson money.  Tampa took Span who makes slightly less than Longoria.  When Tampa trades it will be to significantly improve the team, not a salary dump like Miami.

[Tommygun921]

I'd say no to all unless we are able to "win" big on the trade. I'd rather they spend money for free agents than to spend prospect assets.

[Whammy]

Span at Tampa could provide two things as it relates to a trade with MN.

A) if Tampa is trading Archer, then they will not want Span's salary on the books

B.) if they want Rosario or Kepler, then Span would be a decent stop-gap that would cost $23m for his remaining two years

Edited December 22, 2017 by amjgt

[nytwinsfan]

Absolutely zero interest in Odorizzi. He's been trending down and was last year basically a number 5 starter. His ERA of 4.14 last year is extremely misleading and is belied by his FIP/xFIP of 5.43/5/10 and his BB rate of 3.83 and HR rate of 1.88. He's trending the wrong way in all kinds of ways. Needless to say his K rate of 7.97 doesn't make up for it. I'll take my chances with Mejia, May, Gonsalves and/or Little, thank you very much. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Have we ever made a good trade with Tampa? Hope we don't over pay for Odorizzi.  I do not feel he would be a difference maker.

 

not in recent memory... then again, Tampa has always been more analytically focused

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Any trade for a starter is going to be painful. I'd pay extra to get the better pitcher for four years than the lesser pitcher for two.

No more half measures.

Yeah, if you're going to make a trade, go big.

 

I'd prefer free agency but if a trade is to be made, I'd want it to be a blockbuster.

[Linus]

Any trade for a starter is going to be painful. I'd pay extra to get the better pitcher for four years than the lesser pitcher for two.

 

No more half measures.

This. Whether it's trades or free agency - this. Solve a problem for an extended time period or save your prospects and money.

[ThejacKmp]

Maybe this is falling in love with prospects but I want to sign Darvish/Arietta/Cobb even if the last years of the deal are painful rather than trade for Archer or Cole or whomever. Prospects are the best.

[gocgo]

 

Maybe this is falling in love with prospects but I want to sign Darvish/Arietta/Cobb even if the last years of the deal are painful rather than trade for Archer or Cole or whomever. Prospects are the best.

I'm kind of thinking of the opposite.  We have a good core group of fielders set up for the future.  What we don't have is a frontline pitcher that we can throw for the future.  I see Archer as that guy.  I see Sano moving to first after Mauer retires and it wouldn't shock me to see Dozier move to 3rd when that happens.  I wouldn't want to trade away middle infield unless we feel we have excess.  I don't like the idea of trading away any of our current outfielders as they really cover well and should continue to improve their hitting.

[laloesch]

 

I'm kind of thinking of the opposite.  We have a good core group of fielders set up for the future.  What we don't have is a frontline pitcher that we can throw for the future.  I see Archer as that guy.  I see Sano moving to first after Mauer retires and it wouldn't shock me to see Dozier move to 3rd when that happens.  I wouldn't want to trade away middle infield unless we feel we have excess.  I don't like the idea of trading away any of our current outfielders as they really cover well and should continue to improve their hitting.

 

If the Twins want Archer it's going to cost them A FORTUNE in prospects to get him and i say PASS.

 

The Rays would want Lewis, Romero, Thorpe, Gonsalves, Gordon possibly Rosario in some combination.  No way what i'd consider giving up that much talent  for one pitcher.  

[Doomtints]

Odorizzi isn't the type of player you trade for, esp. not that he is now making arbitration money.

 

Also, Archer is cheap so why would they trade him?

 

Colome is cheap....

 

Neither Archer nor Colome have peaked.

 

I don't see any trading going on with these guys. Cobb, now a free agent, is the only possibility for the Twins to pick up. 

 

The media is running with stories of many teams trading for Archer and Colome, but if either are traded Rays fans would have every right to pull out the pitchforks. The Rays will not get better players at these prices.

 

Longoria was the only "high paid" player on their entire roster, and yes even for him "high paid" has to be in quotes....

The Rays were a .500 team last year and weren't that far from making the playoffs. Plus, they need pitching, so why would they trade off pitchers?

 

The Rays and Twins are teams with similar problems to address, so I don't see a trade happening. They want pitching, the Twins want pitching.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Doomtints

[Mike Sixel]

I don't see how trading a declining, expensive player, indicates anything about Tampa's direction with any certainty.

[South Dakota Tom]

I don't see a great fit with the Rays.   Not only is there the "once bitten, twice shy" syndrome but they are seeming to want to be blown away for any non-FA, which is not where we need to go in dealing for the future.  Would Archer look good for four years?   Sure, but would you trade Berrios right now for a couple-three minor-leaguers, even A-list guys?

 

Darvish for money.   Cole for prospects, or Cole/McCutcheon for more prospects (Kiriloff, Gonsalves, Thorpe and Gordon) plus one existing outfielder not named Buxton.   One FA reliever (best available in February after the dust settles and panic sets in). 

[Doomtints]

 

I don't see how trading a declining, expensive player, indicates anything about Tampa's direction with any certainty.

 

Especially when the Rays had exactly one player who fit this profile.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Since the Rays traded their 32 year old third baseman, maybe the Rays would be in the market for a really young third baseman with tremendous upside in power, (can anybody think of someone like that?) in exchange for Archer?

[gocgo]

 

If the Twins want Archer it's going to cost them A FORTUNE in prospects to get him and i say PASS.

 

The Rays would want Lewis, Romero, Thorpe, Gonsalves, Gordon possibly Rosario in some combination.  No way what i'd consider giving up that much talent  for one pitcher.  

I'm not convinced that they would want THAT much.  and keep in mind two things - first, they are prospects...many prospects do not succeed at the highest level.  second, only 9 can be in the lineup at one time.  having great prospects in the pipeline with a mediocre at best pitching staff is kind of a waste of resources.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The Rays and Twins are teams with similar problems to address, so I don't see a trade happening. They want pitching, the Twins want pitching.

Well, every team wants pitching to some extent. But the Rays strength right now is pitching (4th in AL in ERA, with SP prospects emerging to replace Cobb), and their weakness is offense (2nd to last in AL runs scored, losing Longoria and Morrison, and no offensive-minded prospects ready to emerge).

[sploorp]

The team has plenty of money with even more coming off the books next year.  Any trade with Tampa will clean out the farm.  The team should hang onto their prospects (they'll be needed for depth) and buy whatever they need in free agency.

[Riverbrian]

 

Well, every team wants pitching to some extent. But the Rays strength right now is pitching (4th in AL in ERA, with SP prospects emerging to replace Cobb), and their weakness is offense (2nd to last in AL runs scored, losing Longoria and Morrison, and no offensive-minded prospects ready to emerge).

 

Yep

 

The Twins and Rays actually seem to match up well as trading partners. We got some young hitters and they got some experienced pitching. 

[laloesch]

MLBtraderumors is reporting that Alex Cobb is asking for 20 million a year. That's pretty high for a guy that has never come close to 200 innings in one season or 30+ starts.

[MN_ExPat]

I look at Archer and the rays and the only​ thing that I can even remotely picture is at best a Pyrrhic victory.

 

For those that are in a bromance love with his contract and potential, that's fine, I totally can comprehend that view point.   But... the cost.   I truly feel that he would come at more of a cost than the franchise could bear right now.

 

I was taught a saying many moons ago when I entered my chosen profession... You can never miss fast enough to win a gunfight.   ​Trading for Archer (just to make a trade in effect) would make waves in the media world, and the talking heads would gush and wake prosaic about the pluses and minuses of the deal, and many would feel a sense of vindication for the aggressive posturing of the FO, but... would it truly be worth it.  

 

If Falvine "go big" and make the splash, the glut of prospects it would take leaves the franchise with little potential for future growth or replacement of the current "core" players.    Maybe this is the direction they might wish to go, but I seriously have my doubts.   Our beloved Twins would bleed mightily to gain this ground.

 

Once again I can only sit, wait and watch and be glad that the folks actually running the show are smarter and know way more about the game than I do.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

MLBtraderumors is reporting that Alex Cobb is asking for 20 million a year. That's pretty high for a guy that has never come close to 200 innings in one season or 30+ starts.

And remember when Ervin Santana was talking about a $100 million contract too...

[Mr. Brooks]

I look at Archer and the rays and the only​ thing that I can even remotely picture is at best a Pyrrhic victory.

 

For those that are in a bromance love with his contract and potential, that's fine, I totally can comprehend that view point. But... the cost. I truly feel that he would come at more of a cost than the franchise could bear right now.

 

I was taught a saying many moons ago when I entered my chosen profession... You can never miss fast enough to win a gunfight. ​Trading for Archer (just to make a trade in effect) would make waves in the media world, and the talking heads would gush and wake prosaic about the pluses and minuses of the deal, and many would feel a sense of vindication for the aggressive posturing of the FO, but... would it truly be worth it.

 

If Falvine "go big" and make the splash, the glut of prospects it would take leaves the franchise with little potential for future growth or replacement of the current "core" players. Maybe this is the direction they might wish to go, but I seriously have my doubts. Our beloved Twins would bleed mightily to gain this ground.

 

Once again I can only sit, wait and watch and be glad that the folks actually running the show are smarter and know way more about the game than I do.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think everyone who is proposing packages necessarily want to do those trades, but rather just being realistic about what the cost would be.

 

Archer is too costly for my tastes. I'd rather get Cole and a top FA.

[ahart10]

Isn’t Darvish, Santana, Berrios, and an emergence from one of the next group enough to make Twins contenders? Go after the still needed but lesser priced Alex Colome, if targeting Rays in a trade.

[Mr. Brooks]

Isn’t Darvish, Santana, Berrios, and an emergence from one of the next group enough to make Twins contenders? Go after the still needed but lesser priced Alex Colome, if targeting Rays in a trade.

Maybe, but probably not.

One guy, even as good as Darvish, can't turn a rotation from poor to great.

If a prospect emerges, it likely won't be a difference maker until 2019. Remember how much Berrios struggled his first season, and he was a better prospect than any of the pitching prospects we have now.

[MN_ExPat]

 

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think everyone who is proposing packages necessarily want to do those trades, but rather just being realistic about what the cost would be.

Archer is too costly for my tastes. I'd rather get Cole and a top FA.

Well said, I'd have to agree good Sir.

[OldManWinter]

I would hate to see the Twins part with the best farm prizes!