Article: Official Winter Meetings Wednesday Thread

[HitInAPinch]

 

Drew Pomeranz is also rumored to be expendable for Boston too. Do you like Bucholz more than Pomeranz? 

Well, if the Twins rebuild was further along and they  had an open spot in the rotation, personally, I might be interested.  We've still got a few veteran starters that we need to move.  Somehow.  Any way possible.

 

On the surface,  Pomeranz over Bucholz, for being younger than Bucholz and his continuing ability to remain left-handed.

[wsnydes]

 

Drew Pomeranz is also rumored to be expendable for Boston too. Do you like Bucholz more than Pomeranz? 

I lean more with you Vanimal in that I'm more interested in Pomeranz.  Though, I wouldn't turn my nose up at Bucholz either.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I am surprised that I have heard nothing about E Santana.  I thought with the poor FA market and the high price of controllable pitching, his name would surface in a rumor or two.

[markos]

 

Odd question, but looking at the numbers and Soler's subpar defense. Why is someone like Jorge Soler valued so much more than an Eddie Rosario?

 

Career Stat Lines:

 

Jorge Soler: .258 / .328 / .762 - 765 PA, 87 Runs, 27 HR, 98 RBI, 211 SO, 35 2B, 2 3B, 4 SB, Career WAR of 1.1

 

Eddie Rosario: .268 / .298 / .735 - 828 PA, 112 Runs, 23 HR, 82 RBI, 209 SO, 35 2B, 17 3B, 16 SB, Career WAR of 3.3

 

Too me, it looks like there career offensive numbers are a wash AT WORST with Soler striking out even more than Rosario in less PA's. I would actually give the advantage to Rosario offensively. Plus his WAR is much higher

 

When it comes to defense, Rosario has proven he is much better and has a gold glove ceiling. 

 

Am I missing something here?

Soler walks a lot more than Rosario, and he has shown a lot more power in the minors as well. So there is definitely the possibility that Soler has a higher ceiling right now. But I agree that it is mostly projection right now, and that it certainly wouldn't be shocking if Rosario ends up as the more valuable player going forward.

 

Hard to believe that Wade Davis is only worth Soler considering the packages that Miller and Chapman received.

[wsnydes]

 

I think I'm okay with that, but wouldn't be bashful about dealing him if the right offer comes around either.

[Vanimal46]

 

That's a risky proposition to keep Erv... Crossing fingers that he can put together another solid season at 34 years old. 

[Mill1634]

 

 

Found this interesting, who starts against LHP? JRM?

Edited December 7, 2016 by milldaddy35

[Mr. Brooks]

•Mike Berardino informed us early in the day on Tuesday that the Twins had re-signed RHP Yorman Landa to a minor league deal. That is almost surprising because why wouldn't they wait until after Thursday's Rule 5 draft to do that. Assuming he's actually signed (and hasn't just agreed to terms) before Thursday morning's Rule 5 draft, he would be eligible to be selected.

 

I was confused on why the Twins just dropped Landa from the roster, but I'm liking how they handled this now. If they tried to get him through waiver, any team could have claimed him and kept him by putting him on the 40 man roster. By letting him become a free agent and resigning him after the draft, you can keep him in the organization without exposing him to waiver or the rule 5 draft. Even if he is exposed in the rule 5 draft, the team has to commit a roster spot for the year.

Why would anyone select Landa in the Rule 5 draft, and have to carry him on the mlb roster, when they could have just signed him as a minor league free agent?

[nicksaviking]

 

Soler walks a lot more than Rosario, and he has shown a lot more power in the minors as well. So there is definitely the possibility that Soler has a higher ceiling right now. But I agree that it is mostly projection right now, and that it certainly wouldn't be shocking if Rosario ends up as the more valuable player going forward.

 

Hard to believe that Wade Davis is only worth Soler considering the packages that Miller and Chapman received.

 

I don't think Soler has shown more power in the minors but the guy is 6'4" and goes about 225 and has a pretty powerful swing, I think it's all about projection for him, he looks like he might be a power guy. Maybe.

 

I'm also surprised by this. Does Soler have more value than I'm giving him credit for, or does Wade Davis have less for some reason. With how much money and more importantly years Chapman, Jensen and Melancon are going to get/have got, I'd have thought there would have been a feeding frenzy for one year of Davis.

[Seth Stohs]

Ian Desmond to the Rockies.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Ian Desmond to the Rockies.

They also forfeit the 11th pick in the draft. 

[wsnydes]

 

They also forfeit the 11th pick in the draft. 

If that's the case, the move is a bit of a head scratcher in my mind.  I know that he had a nice season, but I still kind of view him as a bit of a risk.

[KGB]

Does this mean the Twins made a mistake when they waived ABW?

 

Landa is still subject to the Rule 5 draft.

What happen with ABW is the normal process, so I don't think they made a mistake. They made Landa a free agent, so he could have gone to any team. It just worked out well for the Twins that he didn't sign with another team.

 

I think it might work out better for the player too, instead of getting bounced around on waivers like ABW is doing now, probably until a team can get him to clear waiver and sent back to the minors. If a team really wants Landa, they would have to put him pay him a major league salary.

 

Landa may have been agreeable to resign with the Twins as a free agent prior to the move where ABW might have not agreed to resign, so trying the waiver move would have made more sense for him.

[Mike Sixel]

 

If that's the case, the move is a bit of a head scratcher in my mind.  I know that he had a nice season, but I still kind of view him as a bit of a risk.

 

Tough call.... if he's about the same player for the next few years, that's a lot more value than a pick is LIKELY to put up, buy they are giving up upside for sure......

 

 

[wsnydes]

 

Tough call.... if he's about the same player for the next few years, that's a lot more value than a pick is LIKELY to put up, buy they are giving up upside for sure......

Fair point.  At 5 years, $70M, it makes even less sense to me.  It seems odd that a team like the Rockies would be interested in that, but we shall see I guess.

[gunnarthor]

Any word on who else gets comp picks in the upcoming draft?  

[markos]

 

I don't think Soler has shown more power in the minors but the guy is 6'4" and goes about 225 and has a pretty powerful swing, I think it's all about projection for him, he looks like he might be a power guy. Maybe.

I guess it is a small sample, but he did have a .360 ISO and 1.132 OPS in 2014 between AA and AAA.

[d-mac]

 

 

Maybe now that they are going into rebuild mode they'll try another strategy. Or maybe Dayton Moore kind of lucked his way into the previous winning formula and perhaps isn't a great GM, which is what most people were saying prior to the 2014 season.

 

This is still my opinion. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Fair point.  At 5 years, $70M, it makes even less sense to me.  It seems odd that a team like the Rockies would be interested in that, but we shall see I guess.

 

Dave Cameron's thoughts:

 

acesfull2312:04 What in god's name are the Rockies doing?

 

Dave Cameron
12:04 Apparently, every year one NL West team has to get tired of their position and try to win prematurely. Two years ago, it was the Padres. Last year, it was the D'Backs. Now it's the Rockies turn.

[Gheggs08]

 

Drew Pomeranz is also rumored to be expendable for Boston too. Do you like Bucholz more than Pomeranz? 

I think Buchholz would cost less and I think he has more upside than Pom. Although I would be fine with either as long as Boston isn't asking too much. I would be happy with E San, Gibson, Buchholz/Pom, Berrios, and whoever to battle for the 5th spot. 

[d-mac]

 

Odd question, but looking at the numbers and Soler's subpar defense. Why is someone like Jorge Soler valued so much more than an Eddie Rosario?

 

Career Stat Lines:

 

Jorge Soler: .258 / .328 / .762 - 765 PA, 87 Runs, 27 HR, 98 RBI, 211 SO, 35 2B, 2 3B, 4 SB, Career WAR of 1.1

 

Eddie Rosario: .268 / .298 / .735 - 828 PA, 112 Runs, 23 HR, 82 RBI, 209 SO, 35 2B, 17 3B, 16 SB, Career WAR of 3.3

 

Too me, it looks like there career offensive numbers are a wash AT WORST with Soler striking out even more than Rosario in less PA's. I would actually give the advantage to Rosario offensively. Plus his WAR is much higher

 

When it comes to defense, Rosario has proven he is much better and has a gold glove ceiling. 

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Soler has nearly 3x the walk rate of Rosario. And then it depends on how much you buy into defensive metrics. The Royals seem to be a bit old school when it comes that, but my impression of them may be wrong. 

[d-mac]

 

 

Ugh, then why keep Santiago?

[wsnydes]

 

I think Buchholz would cost less and I think he has more upside than Pom. Although I would be fine with either as long as Boston isn't asking too much. I would be happy with E San, Gibson, Buchholz/Pom, Berrios, and whoever to battle for the 5th spot. 

You might be correct on Bucholz being cheaper, but the idea would be that Pomeranz is a young controllable pitcher which fits the Twins needs more than Bucholz.  

[gunnarthor]

I don't have a problem keeping Santana since he is a solid ML starter with a proven track record and we need at least one.  But I am a little surprised that there are no rumors on him.  I suspect we might hear things after the FA well dries up.  

 

But would you rather have Santana or Rich Hill for the next three years?  

[clone52]

 

I don't have a problem keeping Santana since he is a solid ML starter with a proven track record and we need at least one.  But I am a little surprised that there are no rumors on him.  I suspect we might hear things after the FA well dries up.  

 

But would you rather have Santana or Rich Hill for the next three years?  

 

Ervin Santana by far.  Younger, cheaper and you are not locked into his 2019 contract.  Plus, Santana has more than 1 good year as a starter since 2010.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

To me the biggest news was the fact that the Nats offered Giolito, Robles and Reynaldo Lopez for Chris Sale, and that offer wasn't enough, as the White Sox instead opted for Moncada. If these sorts of packages are being offered, are we positive Urias is untouchable?

Yes, we are positive that Urias is untouchable. Urias just came up at age 19 and had MLB success. The only reason we didn't see him more in October is they were protecting his arm. He's graduated from prospect to budding star.

 

By comparison, Giolito is 22 years old and kind of scuffled in his debut.

 

Notice who the Nationals said was untouchable in trade talks?  Trea Turner.  Notice who the Yankees refuse to consider dealing (and actually cleared a spot for)?  Gary Sanchez.  Braves? Dansby Swanson. I don't know if those guys will continue performing like superstars, but Urias is closer to that group than he is to the prospects being moved and discussed this winter.

 

And of course, even if there was a hypothetical package that could make Urias not untouchable (touchable? ), it wouldn't be led by Brian Dozier.

Edited December 7, 2016 by spycake

[d-mac]

 

I don't have a problem keeping Santana since he is a solid ML starter with a proven track record and we need at least one.  But I am a little surprised that there are no rumors on him.  I suspect we might hear things after the FA well dries up.  

 

But would you rather have Santana or Rich Hill for the next three years?  

 

Exactly, so the you'd imagine the return would be high. It has to be a sellers' market for starting pitching. 

[Mike Sixel]

Trea Turner was selected after Nick Gordon....................sigh.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I was confused on why the Twins just dropped Landa from the roster, but I'm liking how they handled this now. If they tried to get him through waiver, any team could have claimed him and kept him by putting him on the 40 man roster. By letting him become a free agent and resigning him after the draft, you can keep him in the organization without exposing him to waiver or the rule 5 draft. Even if he is exposed in the rule 5 draft, the team has to commit a roster spot for the year.

Assuming Landa has already signed, he is still eligible for the Rule 5 draft.  (The draft is tomorrow, Thursday Dec. 8.)

 

After the Twins non-tendered him, any team could have signed Landa and given him a 40-man roster spot.  (And he would have taken a 40-man spot if it was offered elsewhere, better pay and benefits.)

 

The Twins played it well because they correctly identified no one else was willing to give Landa a 40-man roster spot right now, much less make him a Rule 5 pick.  But they didn't sneak him past anybody, procedurally.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

But would you rather have Santana or Rich Hill for the next three years?  

 

 

Ervin Santana by far.  Younger, cheaper and you are not locked into his 2019 contract.  Plus, Santana has more than 1 good year as a starter since 2010.

 

Depends on what you need.  If I already have a playoff team, I'd take the risk on Hill.  If I need to fill out a rotation just to get to the playoffs, I'd take Ervin.  (And if I'm pretty far from the playoffs, I'd probably take the risk on Hill too -- if he works out, he's easier to flip for an impact prospect. I think teams will continue to have interest in Ervin, but will ultimately be fairly wishy-washy about ponying up much to acquire him,)