Lucroy Available

[Mike Sixel]

That's interesting.  Presumably, one of these years the Yankees will have to get younger (although they could use their $ and nab guys like Heyward and, in a few years, Harper).  Sanchez seems like the clear replacement for McCann but McCann's under contract for 4 more years(!) and if they could get some other younger bats in the process they might trade him.   They actually have a pretty young rotation.

 

Plouffe would be a good fit for them to replace Headley at third.  Kepler would be the type of exciting prospect they'd like in NY.  Jorge Polanco would probably be an improvement over Drew at this point. Hicks might hold some interest for them if they are giving up on Ellsbury in center.  Nick Gordon's dad used to play for them.  And we have some good arms if they wanted some.  Arcia can't play defense worth spit but his LH bat in that stadium would be pretty tantalizing.  I know nothing of their system so I don't know the internal options they have but I do think the Twins could make a package of some kind that would interest them.  (Or Boston with Swihart).

I don't see Boston dealing Swihart.....but I can see the Yankees dealing Sanchez. Supposedly he took the defense more seriously this year, and showed real improvement. You can either go "now" and deal Dozier or Plouffe or go "soon, but not yet" and deal Polanco and something good for him, I think. I don't think you can deal a far off prospect or two for him. Prospect for prospect deals are pretty rare, so I think it would take a MLB player to get him. I don't know what the cost would really be, frankly.

[Mike Sixel]

That said, if they dealt for Lucroy, and the cost wasn't outrageous, I'd be good with that decision.

[Vanimal46]

I'm a little confused. Half way through the 2015 season we discussed the cost of Lucroy, and it was a hefty price tag (Kepler, Berrios were thrown out as options at the time). That was even during his brutal 1st half. He rebounded in the 2nd half back to his accustomed .800 OPS and is still on a very attractive team friendly contract. And now his price has gone down? Highly doubt that's the case when there will be other teams in the mix for his services. 

 

However I would still be on the phone with the new GM because he's a clear upgrade over what the Twins have. Berrios is off the table, but I'd still have the feature piece of a trade be either Plouffe, Gibson, or Kepler + prospect(s)

[Willihammer]

Maldonado frames just as well, doesn't have the concussion, throws out baserunners at a slightly higher clip, has 2 more years control remaining, doesn't have as much bat but wouldn't cost as much either.

[Vanimal46]

 

Maldonado frames just as well, doesn't have the concussion, throws out baserunners at a slightly higher clip, has 2 more years control remaining, doesn't have as much bat but wouldn't cost as much either.

 

He looks pretty comparable to Herrmann or Fryer from an offensive perspective. We can do better than just targeting a .575 OPS player. 

[dxpavelka]

Why do the same folks that want to crucify Mauer for a .718 OPS want to give away the golden goose for a guy with a .717 OPS?
 

[Willihammer]

Are there any other Brewers the Twins should pursue? According to Olney, everyone's on the table.

[tobi0040]

 

Why do the same folks that want to crucify Mauer for a .718 OPS want to give away the golden goose for a guy with a .717 OPS?
 

 

Catcher vs. 1B. And that 1B is being crucified by some because he makes $23M a year.

 

[Willihammer]

Peralta looks like a fringey 5th starter that could thrive in relief maybe.

[gunnarthor]

 

Why do the same folks that want to crucify Mauer for a .718 OPS want to give away the golden goose for a guy with a .717 OPS?
 

I don't think we'll get Lucroy but everyone who does expects that he'll perform closer to his career numbers than the numbers he put up last year in an injury plagued season.  Lucroy could still be an all-star type at catcher while Mauer will not be one anymore.

[USAFChief]

Why do the same folks that want to crucify Mauer for a .718 OPS want to give away the golden goose for a guy with a .717 OPS?

 

Because there's a good chance he's not a 700 OPS guy, and he's a good defensive catcher?

[DaveW]

As long as it doesn't cost Berrios, Hicks, Rosario or Sano I am all for it.

 

Kepler+Plouffe+PTBNL

Or Gibson+Plouffe would be fine with me.

[stringer bell]

 

As long as it doesn't cost Berrios, Hicks, Rosario or Sano I am all for it.

 

Kepler+Plouffe+PTBNL

Or Gibson+Plouffe would be fine with me.

I don't think Plouffe is on their list. He'll be expensive this year and would be a free agent by the earliest time the Brew Crew would contend. I think major league pitching is pretty precious and I wouldn't have Gibson on the table unless the Twins got major league pitching back.

 

I'd sooner part with Hicks than Kepler, but I guess I haven't been the biggest Hicks booster for a long time.

[USAFChief]

 

I don't think Plouffe is on their list. He'll be expensive this year and would be a free agent by the earliest time the Brew Crew would contend. I think major league pitching is pretty precious and I wouldn't have Gibson on the table unless the Twins got major league pitching back.

 

I'd sooner part with Hicks than Kepler, but I guess I haven't been the biggest Hicks booster for a long time.

Yup.  Plouffe makes zero sense as a trade target for Milwaukee, if they're dealing Lucroy.  

 

They'll want youth in return, probably young pitching.  Stewart is a good starting point.

[dgwills]

 

Why do the same folks that want to crucify Mauer for a .718 OPS want to give away the golden goose for a guy with a .717 OPS?
 

That .717 is Lucroy at his worst. Mostly it was driven by injury. Usually he is .800+ OPS guy and one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. There are very few catchers who can do this in MLB today . The upgrade from the Twins catchers who have a OPS of below .600 would be huge. The median OPS for a 1B by contrast would be around .830, so .718 would be significantly below average and this was in a season where Mauer had no major injuries.

[tobi0040]

 

Yup.  Plouffe makes zero sense as a trade target for Milwaukee, if they're dealing Lucroy.  

 

They'll want youth in return, probably young pitching.  Stewart is a good starting point.

 

I think Kohl is a secondary guy in a package for Lucroy.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, I don't get why people think Plouffe is part of this deal.  The only way that happens is if you deal Plouffe for a prospect you use to acquire Lucroy.  (Which, I think, is a route to pursue)

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Stewart, Polanco and Arcia?

 

I'd be up for something like that.  If Milwaukee thinks they are a couple years away, I don't see them being interested in Gibson.  They want guys who they can develop.  This would be a pretty good haul.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Send Milwaukee Gibson, Arcia, Nolasco, and if needed, Polanco or ABWII.  Gibson gives the Brewers a still young with upside starter who should be even better in the NL.  Arcia still has promise as a hitter, and maybe his younger brother will re-instill some desire in him.  Nolasco (with the Twins covering 2/3 of salary for the next 2 years) gives the Brewers a guy who will either help them tank for picks if bad, or a nice trade chip come the deadline if he's doing well.  I don't know if Milwaukee says yes to this, but I think that's a decent starting point.

[KGB]

 

Send Milwaukee Gibson, Arcia, Nolasco, and if needed, Polanco or ABWII.  Gibson gives the Brewers a still young with upside starter who should be even better in the NL.  Arcia still has promise as a hitter, and maybe his younger brother will re-instill some desire in him.  Nolasco (with the Twins covering 2/3 of salary for the next 2 years) gives the Brewers a guy who will either help them tank for picks if bad, or a nice trade chip come the deadline if he's doing well.  I don't know if Milwaukee says yes to this, but I think that's a decent starting point.

I don't think there is any chance they take Nolasco even if you covered 2/3 of the salary.  They moved Garza out of the rotation last year to get younger players starts. 

 

With the injury history, you might be able to get him cheap so I think you have to look into it.  But if you are sending multiple young prospects, it might be better using them for a younger catcher.

[DaveW]

 

I don't think Plouffe is on their list. He'll be expensive this year and would be a free agent by the earliest time the Brew Crew would contend. I think major league pitching is pretty precious and I wouldn't have Gibson on the table unless the Twins got major league pitching back.

 

I'd sooner part with Hicks than Kepler, but I guess I haven't been the biggest Hicks booster for a long time.

Plouffe is a toss in basically, they can turn around and trade him or keep him as a warm body (even in rebuilding you need some legit players)

 

Gibson is a mid rotation guy, he is easily replaceable with May, Milone, Duffey etc.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Plouffe is a toss in basically, they can turn around and trade him or keep him as a warm body (even in rebuilding you need some legit players)

 

Gibson is a mid rotation guy, he is easily replaceable with May, Milone, Duffey etc.

 

Plouffe has value, but not really to a team like Milwaukee.  I think they would want young guys.  I do agree that Plouffe and Gibson are tradable assets, and should net nice pieces, but I really don't see any of them getting you Lucroy. 

 

I think Gibson would fetch quite a bit on the market if he was made available.  I'd center a deal for Lucroy around Gibson, but I wouldn't be tossing in much in terms of decent prospects at that point.  Gibson has a lot more control and is already an above average pitcher.  His peripherals moved quite a bit closer to his minor league numbers.  He's not a thrown in, he's a valuable piece.  I think he's being undervalued if he's being added to a prospect package for a concussed C with 2 years of control left.

[Tcrose3636]

Ish, I wouldn't trade anything more than Arcia and a low level prospect who's name I have never heard of.

 

I have no faith that Lucroy will have a healthy season again, concussions as a catcher....all you need is a foul tip off the mask to re-aggravate the symptoms...and getting hit in the mask is an every game event. No way would I trade anything significant for him.

[darin617]

No thanks, why do we want to take on another catcher who will command a high salary. We all know how that turned out last time. I would rather trade for a rookie or wait and develop one of our own prospects.

[beckmt]

I would guess he would ask for Plouffe plus more.  Would not trade May or Duffy, they will offset some bigger salaries needed elsewhere. 

[dbminn]

From 2012-2014, Lucroy was a 13 WAR player. He was good the last two months of the 2015 season after he came back from a broken toe. He did play a short time after the concussion, although he didn't catch. He's under control the next two years for a combined $9.2 million. That's a pittance.

 

Lucroy is going to cost at least three very good prospects. Polanco, Stewart and Arcia are not going to be nearly enough. Reed (or May)/Kepler/Polanco is probably in the range of what they'll ask. They are going to want the same future WAR back for what they trade, at a similar value. Since prospects haven't proven anything, they'll want upside.

 

I wouldn't make the trade, primarily because of the concussion.  

[mikelink45]

Are we over rating him?  These are not overwhelming statistics the way that the discussion seems to imply. These are from Baseball Reference:

Year Age Tm    G     PA     AB    R      H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB 

6 Yrs                710 2761 2500 298 705 140 16 66 337 24 9 217 391 .282 .340 .430 .770 109 1075

 

26% caught stealing rate 

 

WAR - 0.7, 1.5, 3.5, 3.4, 6.1, 1.1  - is 6.1 attainable again?  I doubt it.  We have seen catchers go down quickly and we have also seen concussions take down stars - Mauer, Morneau and they have not come back.

I would trade for him, but the ideas that have been written here are too high!

 

 

[nicksaviking]

I don't trust 30-year-old catchers.

 

That's probably knee-jerk, but I've been asking this team to go full-on youth since before the Astros and Cubs made it fashionable this year.  I'm probably going to stubbornly protest adding any more vets to this team unless two are removed for every one added..

[ashbury]

I think Gibson would fetch quite a bit on the market if he was made available. 

The same reasons he has high trade value are why I would not easily trade him. Pitching is just too scarce a commodity. We are not so far removed from the days of having to bring up AAA suspects to fill out a rotation.

[HitInAPinch]

 

That's interesting.  Presumably, one of these years the Yankees will have to get younger (although they could use their $ and nab guys like Heyward and, in a few years, Harper).  Sanchez seems like the clear replacement for McCann but McCann's under contract for 4 more years(!) and if they could get some other younger bats in the process they might trade him.   They actually have a pretty young rotation.

 

Plouffe would be a good fit for them to replace Headley at third.  Kepler would be the type of exciting prospect they'd like in NY.  Jorge Polanco would probably be an improvement over Drew at this point. Hicks might hold some interest for them if they are giving up on Ellsbury in center.  Nick Gordon's dad used to play for them.  And we have some good arms if they wanted some.  Arcia can't play defense worth spit but his LH bat in that stadium would be pretty tantalizing.  I know nothing of their system so I don't know the internal options they have but I do think the Twins could make a package of some kind that would interest them.  (Or Boston with Swihart).

I read on MLB Rumors that the Yankees are in desperate need of a second baseman.  Dozier for Sanchez, with the appropriate number of add-ins.  Need for prospect need.....