Heyman on Twins Middle Infielders

[Seth Stohs]

Just now, Jon Heyman tweeted about interest being shown in two Twins middle infielders:

 

 

been a lot of interest in twins middle infielders dozier and escobar due to their depth. minn very reluctant to move

 

Understandably, the Twins would ask a lot for Dozier who already has produced, power, speed and defense, plus intangible leadership kinds of things. Escobar showed that he could be a full-time middle infielder if needed, and though he will likely enter 2015 as the Twins utility infielder, he provides a very good option should Danny Santana struggle at shortstop or be put back in centerfield. That said, Escobar's value may never be higher. 

[nicksaviking]

 

 

 That said, Escobar's value may never be higher. 

 

Yes, if someone will overpay, you have to sell someone who looks to be a bench player.

[beckmt]

Still think we should sell high on Dozier.  Have 2 years to see if one of the Twins prospects in middle infield(we have several we be a replacement).  Could bring some very good pitching(though not a fit with Cinni which is looking to trade some).

[SwainZag]

Still think we should sell high on Dozier.  Have 2 years to see if one of the Twins prospects in middle infield(we have several we be a replacement).  Could bring some very good pitching(though not a fit with Cinni which is looking to trade some).

 

I wouldn't trade Dozier unless you get totally blown away.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think Escobar should be on the block before Dozier in my opinion. That said, I'm not sure I move either unless its a good price. I think there's more risk in holding Escobar at this point in that there's question of whether or not he can keep up the offense, but I also think Santana could use more seasoning in the minors as a SS and letting g Escobar get a chance to build on his value for another year at SS may not be a bad thing.

 

Sell high.

[DaveW]

I still think Santana sees at least 25-30 games in CF this year.

 

Dozier should be close to untouchable (unless someone blows you away with a controllable #2 upside type pitcher)

I wouldn't be in a hurry to trade Escobar as well, especially after the disasters we have seen at SS over the past 10-15 years as Twins fans. Anything other than a hard throwing starter, a young catcher or a legit big hitting bat is of no real interest to me.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Yes, if someone will overpay, you have to sell someone who looks to be a bench player.

Agreed, but I am not sure anyone is lining up to overpay for Escobar.  With the shortstop position still a bit of a question, I'd be reluctant to trade a cheap solid utility guy for Dillon Gee too.

[nicksaviking]

Agreed, but I am not sure anyone is lining up to overpay for Escobar.  With the shortstop position still a bit of a question, I'd be reluctant to trade a cheap solid utility guy for Dillon Gee too.

 

Well sure.  Though some surely would disagree based on ERA or something silly, I wouldn't consider Dillon Gee or any other 88 MPH junkballer an overpay.

 

I'm guessin the front office doesn't feel the same way, but my return in any one of this prospective trades wouldn't necissarily require current MLB talent.

[Brandon]

if the Twins sign Santana they will be pretty much done with their offseason.  They go dumpster diving for reliever options but that's it. They won't trade either of the MI's this offseason. 

[Dman]

I wouldn't trade Dozier as his talent, Power, speed, defense is hard to find at 2nd base.  I would be reluctant to lose Escobar as he is likely more valuable to the Twins than what he is worth in a trade.  He is a great insurance policy should Santana face a sophomore slump or someone in the infield gets injured long term.  I agree his value may never be higher but get a very good piece then or we will likely regret losing him this year for sure.  

 

FWIW I do believe he can and will be a good to very good MLB shortstop.  

[Mike Sixel]

If he's a very good MLB SS......he's worth a lot to most every team, isn't he?

[twinsfanstreif]

The Nationals need a 2B pretty bad, Maybe we could get Giolito from them for Dozier?!

[Champuckett]

Dozier is the type of player we have been lacking in the post Pierzynski/Hunter era around 2007.  Someone with some passion, flare, and leadership.  We had been limping along uninspired with the likes of Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer lead group for years and we saw how that turned out.  We need a steady, fiery, inspirational force on the team like Dozier.  Regardless of his statistics and trade value, which are pretty good, he is currently untradeable if the front office has any understanding of what they are doing.  If it wasn't for his "intangibles" and leadership qualities, I would say trade him if the deal was right, but he has more to offer than what a stat line says.

 

As for Escobar, I say he is expendable and like others mentioned, may be at  his peak trade value in his career right now after exceeding expectations last year.  I like him, but I don't think it is completely necessary to hold onto him for this franchise to have future success.  If the trade value return is right, pull the trigger.  Plouffe is another guy in the same place, but we have a high caliber replacement coming up soonish with Sano.

[Thrylos]

Dozier is the type of player we have been lacking in the post Pierzynski/Hunter era around 2007.  Someone with some passion, flare, and leadership. 

 

That did not make the Twins competitive the last 2 seasons.

 

Sell high. 

[brvama]

As a rebuilding team, If you sell high on your good players you never get better. You only become a feeder system for othrt teams. Certainly it's imperative you listen, but the trade has to favor the Twins. That said, I really believe that Dozier is a cog for the future, at least until a competent replacement is available.

 

The problem moving Escobar, is we really don't know if Santana is ready for SS. We do know what Escobar brings. Worst case, he stays as a serviceable utility INF. With the demand for MI he could be moved this summer or next season. But if someone is disparate, then.....?

[jay]

That did not make the Twins competitive the last 2 seasons.

 

Sell high.

Show me some precedence of trading an above-average position player with four years of pre-arb and arb control still remaining. Doesn't happen much... Even rebuilding teams wait longer than that.

 

We need more players like Dozier to get competitive, not less. Trading him away is a terrible idea unless the return is truly too good to be true.

[Dman]

If he's a very good MLB SS......he's worth a lot to most every team, isn't he?

Agreed, but from what I understand most teams don't necessarily value him as starter but as a utility player. Granted that kind of is his current role but he held his own and then some last year so I think he can be a very good starter. The question is will another team feel the same way and give us something decent in return.

 

I don't think anyone will and I think in that case he has more value for the Twins in his current role.

[Champuckett]

We need more players like Dozier to get competitive, not less. Trading him away is a terrible idea unless the return is truly too good to be true.

 

Yes.  It's nice to see some of our young guys already getting interest in them, no doubt about it.  But we need to start building up and start from somewhere and I think Dozier has displayed he is more than capable of helping start this new foundation for the future.  Our offense was one of the strong points of this team with Dozier being a large contributor to that.  He is the spark we need at the beginning of the lineup.  He's better than what his offensive statistics tell us and he is just about to enter his prime or has already entered it.  Reminds me of a young Danny Gladden.

 

His value is going to increase and we will know what we have with this current crop of rookies + the new guys coming up in 2015 in terms of competitiveness in the very near future.  Assess trading him at that point, but let's see where this crew goes, if anywhere.  

[Seth Stohs]

Yeah, I would not trade Dozier unless absolutely overwhelmed.  He's a leader, but he's been a 1st and 2nd year player... now he's got more time and wsuccess under his belt. This is about to become his team. If Torii will let him.

[jay]

let's see where this crew goes, if anywhere.

Exactly.

 

I could understand a case to trade Dozier now to kickoff a rebuild if the Twins had a barren farm system and no real hopes of contending in the next few years. That's absolutely not the case. Trading proven performers with significant team control for prospects is a great way to be stuck in a perpetual rebuild.

 

A trade for MLB talent to fill a hole elsewhere can make sense if there's excess MLB talent at the position, but we most definitely aren't to that point. Not yet.

[USAFChief]

I would like to see the Twins hold onto Dozier.

 

I would be actively trying to sell high on Escobar.

[ashbury]

I would be actively trying to sell high on Escobar.

... and not being surprised in the slightest if all 29 other GMs view him as a good backup only, in which case I keep him in preference to receiving a relief prospect in single-A ball.

[drock2190]

... and not being surprised in the slightest if all 29 other GMs view him as a good backup only, in which case I keep him in preference to receiving a relief prospect in single-A ball.

 

Yeah I think everyone's thinking that they would be buying high on Escobar. If Escobar can have another nice year then he might get some interest.

 

Remember only like two years ago everyone overlooked Dozier.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah I think everyone's thinking that they would be buying high on Escobar. If Escobar can have another nice year then he might get some interest.

 

Remember only like two years ago everyone overlooked Dozier.

 

You only know if you are aggressively shopping him.  There appears to be pretty good interest out there in middle infielders.

[jorgenswest]

In the 34 seasons since Roy Smalley was the Twins regular shortstop, Twin shortstops have had two seasons with and OPS+ above 100 (2001 and 2014). Might be a good idea to keep Escobar around.

 

At 2B, Todd Walker (1998) was the last to have an OPS+ over 100 until Dozier did it last year. It would be good to keep him around also.

 

These two guys and their team control are part of the solution. Any return has to be a player that comes with similar team control.

[beckmt]

After signing Santana, do not think Dozier will be traded.  Would have preferred trading Dozier for a #2 type starter that had stuff with some team control or would accept an extension(Zimmerman of Washington would have been my pick).  Will live with this, but selling high when contention is 2-3 years away is a good thing.

[The Wise One]

After signing Santana, do not think Dozier will be traded.  Would have preferred trading Dozier for a #2 type starter that had stuff with some team control or would accept an extension(Zimmerman of Washington would have been my pick).  Will live with this, but selling high when contention is 2-3 years away is a good thing.

Look what Detroit received for Porcello. Dozier alone might get you someone equivalent to Kyle Gibson

[LaBombo]

This is probably an odd and unpopular take, but one reason not to move Dozier is Sano.  If he's healthy, can hit and play a passable third base at AAA by midseason, it would be nice to see the Twins test the market for Plouffe. 

 

But it would be hard to do that for a team that's trying to build and spend back to respectability if they've moved their other good late 20's infielder and still have it look like there's an easily understood roadmap for relevancy in the coming season and contention soon after.

 

There's no pressing need to move either unless someone like the Giants, who are rumored to be interested in trading an A-/B+ starter prospect from their bottomless barrel of them, overpay a bit for Plouffe.  Dozier is better, younger and less imminently replaceable with a superior player from the minors.  If you can only trade one, it's Plouffe.

[stringer bell]

Expanding the topic to include Plouffe, here is what we have:

 

Dozier--A floor of an above-average second baseman, ceiling of perhaps All-Star.  Not yet arb-eligible and under team control for four more years.

 

Santana--Wide range between his floor (one flukey good offensive season w/ unproven defense) and his ceiling (.300 hitter w/ great speed, range and rocket arm).  He needs to prove he can be an everyday SS defensively.

 

Plouffe--Forgetting his "Babe Ruth month" a few years ago, the floor is mid-range regular 3B.  The ceiling is top quartile 3B.  He is entering his second year or arbitration and has a Top Ten prospect behind him in the minors.

 

Escobar--Floor of quality switch-hitting 3-position infielder.  Ceiling of capable regular SS.  He's still young and has improved with increased playing time. 

 

If one is to be moved, it is Plouffe.  Escobar is a short-term replacement and Sano is the long-term answer at third.  Before it is safe to trade Escobar, the Twins need to know about Santana.  To me, Dozier is the lynchpin of a dramatically improved Twins team, especially given his contract situation, keep him.