Was the Tyler Mahle Trade the Worst Trade In Twins History?

Christian Encarcion-Strand is the guy to regret for what he will soon become. I wonder what it would take to get him back? His defense is lacking and he strikes out quite a bit, but he is going to absolutely mash in the middle of a lineup.

Worst trade? "Don't look back ..... "

I never cared for Tyler Mahle when he pitched for the Reds. He was, undeniably, a decent pitcher, but the nibbling, the home runs, and his general approach never did it for me. Good for Mahle that he has signed another contract and I was glad that Falvey sat that one out.

Giving partial credit to whatever we gave up to get Ron Davis.

15 minutes ago, Chachi said:

Giving partial credit to whatever we gave up to get Ron Davis.

That would be Roy Smalley. That trade also brought Greg Gagne to the Twins..

Nettles for Tiant is the worst one on my list, but that's mainly the release of Tiant that makes it so bad.

December 10, 1969: Graig Nettles traded by the Minnesota Twins with Dean Chance, Bob Miller and Ted Uhlaender to the Cleveland Guardians for Luis Tiant and Stan Williams.

If Rich Reese would not have had his miracle 1969 year hitting .322, would the Twins have made this terrible trade?

I would do a Mahle type trade again given an opportunity this summer.

The Santana trade was bad from the start. They didn’t get anyone that was the headline of the deal. We see those kinds of suggested deals often on this board where several Twins are offered for a single very good player. A bunch of 1-2 WAR players do not replace a 5+ WAR player.

The Capps deal was a terrible trade. He had saves and ERA in his favor but the peripherals behind those suggested a mediocre pitcher.

Brunanksy for Herr 

Lawton for Reed

Hicks for Murphy

Carew for Engle

42 minutes ago, Chachi said:

Giving partial credit to whatever we gave up to get Ron Davis.

I think I'm still traumatized by him. It was like groundhog day. Blown save, rinse, repeat....

I think the Mahle deal is right up there. Top five. Could be worse if Steer, and especially CES, prove to be very good players. 

5 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Brunanksy for Herr 

Lawton for Reed

Hicks for Murphy

Carew for Engle

 

The Twins got two very good years of Ken Landreaux as part of the Carew trade, but agree with the rest.

I don't think it was even the worst trade they made at the deadline that year.

Trading 4 guys for a reliever that had been good for half a season was just a worse process forced by not caring about the bullpen preseason and the costs of doing business at the deadline.  It is more surprising in hindsight; I wouldn't have expected Cano to be more than a mediocre reliever, while I did have high hopes for Steer and CES (I did have somewhat high hopes for Povich at the time too).  But it still just feels so much worse in retrospect giving the Orioles a premier set-up man, under control for 6 years, in exchange for a terrible reliever.

I always hated the Brunansky for Herr trade. Tommy Herr was not a team player.

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Brunanksy for Herr 

Lawton for Reed

Hicks for Murphy

Carew for Engle

 

Bruno for Herr is the worst. 

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Brunanksy for Herr 

Lawton for Reed

Hicks for Murphy

Carew for Engle

 

Lawton for Reed wasn’t a bad trade.  What puts it in this category is we traded from a position of need for a position of need but less need and Terry Ryan was unable or unw To do the second trade that was supposed to occur to replace Lawton.

The all time worst move is still giving up David Ortiz for nothing.  

There are two ways to evaluate trades.

One, judge the trade based on available knowledge at the time of the trade.

Two, judge the trade based on the entire trade tree. Judge the performance of all involved players for all teams. Include all players involved in all subsequent trades. To be complete, include the performance of players who continued their careers elsewhere after they were released, DFA'd, or non-tendered, and the performance of players they were traded with and for. Trade trees can continue for decades, and it's far too soon to attempt to evaluate the Mahle trade at this point.

How about the Pressly trade? So far the Twins have gotten negative WAR out of it.

45 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

There are two ways to evaluate trades.

One, judge the trade based on available knowledge at the time of the trade.

Two, judge the trade based on the entire trade tree. Judge the performance of all involved players for all teams. Include all players involved in all subsequent trades. To be complete, include the performance of players who continued their careers elsewhere after they were released, DFA'd, or non-tendered, and the performance of players they were traded with and for. Trade trees can continue for decades, and it's far too soon to attempt to evaluate the Mahle trade at this point.

 

 

The book on the Mahle trade has closed on the Twins side.  That is why the trade is being evaluated.  There are no more branches on this side of the deal. The other side of the deal already has more value and likely so much more projected on the way.  Hence the  evaluation which is now legit.  And it will update to be either less bad or even worse than what people think now.  There is no way around it.  This trade turned out bad for the Twins.
 

While at the time of the trade it didn’t look good in that we knew we overpaid for Mahle with the talent we gave up.  We gave up duplicate talent.  Meaning the players we gave up were blocked by other young players.   So the trade looked to be good for the Twins to get a #2 starter for prospects.  
 

My analysis of the trade is it was a bad one but I’m not mad at the front office for going for it.  I hope they do this trade type of trade again.

20 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

How about the Pressly trade? So far the Twins have gotten negative WAR out of it.

Among the big 3 valuation systems, only Fangraphs has the Twins' side as negative (-0.6 WAR total).  BBref has it at +0.5 WAR and BP has it at +1.2 WARP.

Pressly only had 1 1/2 years of control remaining, and was extended at around $10 MM AAV, something the Twins would never do and frankly probably shouldn't given their overall budgets, so I probably wouldn't factor any value in his extended years very heavily.

Alcala still has time to provide value and though Celestino was never that good in the majors he was desperately needed at the time.  Getting two MLB caliber players for a closer with one year of control honestly doesn't seem too bad to me as is, and it could still get better in the next two years.