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    Twins Should Extend Tyler Mahle


    Cody Schoenmann

    Although the Tyler Mahle trade has been deemed a failure, the Twins shouldn't cut the cord just yet.

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    On August 2, 2022, the Minnesota Twins traded Spencer Steer (7th-ranked prospect), Christian Encarnacion-Strand (23rd-ranked prospect), and Steve Hajjar (18th-ranked prospect) to the Cincinnati Reds for starting pitcher Tyler Mahle. At the time, fans and analysts almost unanimously viewed the trade as a win for the Twins. Ten months later, the trade is considered one of the worst in Twins history. 

    Steer has become an everyday utility player for the Reds, hitting .286/.365/.482 (.861) and a wRC+ of 124. Steer also sports an fWAR of 0.8 which is higher than every Twins position player not named Ryan Jeffers (1.0 fWAR), Michael A. Taylor (1.0 fWAR), Byron Buxton (0.9 fWAR), Willi Castro (0.8 fWAR), or Alex Kirilloff (0.8 fWAR). 

    As he did in the Twins system last year, Encarnacion-Strand has skyrocketed through the Cincinnati Reds minor league system and is hitting .353/.413/.706 (1.11) with a wRC+ of 172 with the Triple-A Louisville Bats, and Hajjar has since been traded to the Cleveland Guardians as part of the Will Benson trade between the Reds and Guardians on March 25. Meanwhile, Mahle started nine games and pitched 42.0 innings before the Twins announced that Mahle would need to undergo Tommy John surgery on May 11. 

    The Twins lost this trade. There is no more room for interpretation. Steer has been incredible, Encarnacion-Strand looks like he will be incredible, and Twins fans will inevitably be upset when Hajjar throws seven scoreless innings against the Twins while pitching for the Guardians in 2026. 

    Although the Twins gave away three talented prospects that fans will have to watch perform well for other teams for what could be the next decade, those who follow the Twins shouldn't be too upset with the organization as the process the front office took in trading for Mahle was sound and the right move at the time, as the Twins were in first place and contending for a division title, it just happened not to work out. That said, the Twins should not be done with Mahle just yet. Instead, they should extend him to a multiyear contract. 

    It may seem like I am falling victim to the sunk-cost fallacy, but Mahle is an above-average pitcher that the Twins should look to sign while his perceived value is relatively low. Through nine games with the Twins, Mahle has achieved a 3.64 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, and 4.73 FIP while giving up nine walks, 35 hits, and 40 strikeouts. When looking at Mahle's performance as a Twin, the number that catches one's eye is his elite WHIP of just 1.05. Mahle is elite when it comes to limiting baserunners, which is a skill that every franchise values highly. 

    Mahle throws an above-average slider and splitter to confuse both left and right-handed batters, but what makes Mahle truly special is his elite fastball. Mahle, who stands at six-foot-three, pointedly bends his knee at the end of his wind-up, creating a rising effect on his fastball, similar to fellow Twins pitcher Joe Ryan and Cleveland Guardians pitcher Triston McKenzie

    Mahle's ability to generate what is essentially a "rising fastball," which is an optical illusion in itself, is evidenced by Mahle's 80th-percentile extension rate and 76th-percentile Fastball Spin rate. Mahle's elite fastball, which sits around 93-94 MPH, led to him generating a K% of 27.5% and a BB% of just 4.9%, both elite numbers on each end of the spectrum. 

    Mahle, like any pitcher, is not perfect. Mahle is a fly-ball pitcher, and although this archetype tends to work well while pitching most of one’s games at Target Field, it does mean that Mahle is prone to giving up home runs, especially on the road, which was evidenced during his start against the Yankees on April 15, when he gave up two home runs through only 4.1 innings pitched. Although Mahle occasionally struggles with home runs, he is an above-average pitcher who, if given more opportunities while healthy, would greatly benefit from throwing most of his starts at Target Field, where Ballpark Pal currently ranks as the tenth hardest ballpark to hit home runs.

    What would Mahle's contract extension look like?
    Although signing a pitcher who recently underwent Tommy John surgery feels like something that would be complicated to work through, this iteration of the Twins front office has done this more than once. In December 2017, the Twins signed Michael Pineda, who had undergone Tommy John surgery in July of that year, to a two-year, $10 million contract that paid him $2 million while he recovered during the 2018 season and eight million dollars during what was expected to be Pineda's first full year back from surgery. Also, the Twins recently signed Chris Paddack, who underwent Tommy John surgery in May 2022, to a three-year, $12 million contract on January 14, 2023. 

    Using Pineda and Paddack's contract as reference points, it would be fair to assume that Mahle's hypothetical contract would be in a similar ballpark. Mahle is a better pitcher than Pineda and Paddack were when they signed their respective contracts, so it is fair to assume that Mahle would require more of an investment if the Twins wanted to extend him. 

    To predict, Mahle would likely request a contract somewhere in the two-year $20 million range that would pay him five million dollars to recover with the Twins in 2024 and then $15 million to pitch in what would hopefully be his first completely healthy season since his surgery in 2025.

    Evidently, the Twins find value in signing or extending high-variance starting pitchers whose value is low since they recently underwent Tommy John surgery. Many fans will label this as the Twins shopping in the "bargain section" for pitchers, but, on the flip side, this process could be seen as a savvy process in accruing low-cost pitching talent, especially when it comes to an above-average pitcher like Mahle.

    Should the Twins extend Mahle? What do you think Mahle's contract would look like?

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    It will always boil down to "how much?". I'm not sure I want to pay him 2/$20M.  It seems like $5M is a lot to be paid to "recover" and $15M is a lot to pay for the first year back, which tends to be just OK in the best of circumstances.  The contract either needs to be for less money or for more years so that we can benefit from the recovery.  Three or four years seems better at $25M or if it must be two, then 2/$12M.  There is also the question of how his shoulder is doing.  If that is directly related to the TJ than it should be fine, but if not. . . . hmmmm. . . . .

    I'm fine with extending Mahle for something similar to Paddack and Pineda, but a "a savvy process in accruing low-cost pitching talent" it is not.  If the FO (of which I generally support) acquired Mahle with the strategy of well-if-he-needs-TJ-then-we'll-be-buying-talent-low, that's a very risky, not savvy, strategy.  And the cost of Mahle likely will bite the FO for quite a while.  Don't shrink from calling it what is was, a really bad deal, learn from this mistake and move on hopefully wiser.

    I'm not sure Mahle showed us much. Even if he gets the elbow in order, how's that shoulder looking? The deal for Pineda was a good one for the Twins, maybe something similar with little commitment or risk would be ok. On the other hand we already have one of these deals on the books with Paddack, isn't that enough? 

    If the money is right I am all for it.  Can't have enough pitching in the system.  If they want to move on I would be fine with that as well.  TJ recovery really takes a long time for pitchers and no guarantee he comes back the same player.  I like how he pitches and agree it fits the Twins philosophy but the money would have to be low as the risk is high.

    I can see a contract as high as 3 the first year and 12 for year 2 of a 2 year deal.  With incentives to allow him to make it to 17 million.   That would or should be the high point on a 2 year extension.  A third season would have to guarantee 14 / 15 million or so. That’s a 3 year 30 million contract with incentives to push the value up to say 34 million.  Because of the shoulder injury before the tommy John surgery I would just pass and move on.  You are taking on too many risks in this scenario.

    Paddack's extension can be a starting point for thinking, but the two pitchers' contract situations are very different.  Paddack still had two arbitration years ahead of him, so he had less leverage when considering whether to accept the team's offer to guarantee him some money.  Mahle is already eligible for free agency after this season.

    Look at it a different way. Before signing his extension, Paddack had earned about $5M in major league salary*, which is good money but not quite at the "set for life" level for a variety of reasons.  The Twins' offer did take him past that threshold.  By contrast, Mahle has earned above $15M to date.  Assuming he's invested wisely, the Twins can't really approach him and his agent with "we'll guarantee you life-changing money" because his life is already changed for the better.

    Paddack chose not to gamble on a far higher payday at some intermediate point, during which something unrelated might also go wrong, while still maintaining the potential for a good outcome in free agency further down the road.  Mahle might see the gamble as less dependent on anything besides recovery from the elbow surgery, and he's better placed to shoulder** the risk if he wants to roll the dice.  Paddack thereby assured his own financial future; for all I know Mahle might be trying to fund a charitable foundation next, for example.

    I think signing Mahle's going to be harder, because from the Twins' perspective the two situations are indeed pretty similar.  The team will have to risk more, with more or less the same potential reward.

     

    * I'm taking my numbers from b-r.com, which I find sometimes to be unreliable for the kind of analysis I want to do.

    ** No pun intended, but there it is.

    He's not particularly forthright about his health (if the comments we got from him were reflective of what he was saying to Twins staff), he's not particularly dominant, and he's not particularly young. I think we can do better elsewhere. 

    If the money is right (meaning low) it's worth talking to him about, but I wouldn't count on him at all for next year so we're looking at 2025 as the year he'd be back in the rotation. Ryan, Lopez, Ober, Varland, and Paddack are all still under contract then. I'm not writing them in stone as our 2025 rotation, but if they can't produce any more pitching by then there's a massive problem. I just don't see the need. If I'm the owner I'm telling the FO they can sign Mahle for peanuts, otherwise it's time for them to produce their own pitching because that's what I pay them for. It's pipeline time. They need to be able to back up those 5 starters the next 2 years with internal development. There should be no more trades, or signings, needed. They have 5, and it's time to turn SWR, Festa, Enlow, etc. into the next wave to provide the depth for the 5 big leaguers they have.

    You're not suggesting a timing for the extension, but by writing it now, you may be inclined to do it now. In that case, a signficant difference is that Pineda signing didn't come until the offseason, so he was further along in his rehab than Mahle is now. 

    I would be interested in signing him to an extension, but $20M/2 years seems too high. I could see something in the ballpark of $14M/2 years as a more palatable deal. The best-case scenario would be that he is able to return to form in 2025 and the Twins extend a qualifying offer.

    I'd rather stick with just having the Paddack contract rather than having him and Mahle. With Ryan, Varland, and Ober on their rookie deals and Lopez just signing an extension, I think we are good with the rotation the way it is. And that's not mentioning what to do with Sonny Gray. Hard pass.

    He probably wouldn't pitch any until Aug/Sept of 2024 at the earliest. We have 5 plus Maeda right now. Of the guys in the system who could we bring up when another injury appears. The 6-8 spots for starters look pretty weak right now. When Maeda is back, spot #6 is not so bad. But what if Maeda goes down again next month. They had set rotation plans for a fill in start every 3-4 weeks to give the regulars in the rotation a break, but that's fallen by the wayside.

    I think we may need to sign a pitcher who can start next year with the money we would be gambling on Mahle with. Otherwise if both Grey and Maeda leave, then we will just be short 2 starters for next year.

    8 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

    It will always boil down to "how much?". I'm not sure I want to pay him 2/$20M.  It seems like $5M is a lot to be paid to "recover" and $15M is a lot to pay for the first year back, which tends to be just OK in the best of circumstances.  The contract either needs to be for less money or for more years so that we can benefit from the recovery.  Three or four years seems better at $25M or if it must be two, then 2/$12M.  There is also the question of how his shoulder is doing.  If that is directly related to the TJ than it should be fine, but if not. . . . hmmmm. . . . .

    I would love if the Twins were able to sign Mahle to a, as you proposed, four year $25 million or two years $12 million contract, but I don't think either of those are realistic. Hypothetically, if Mahle pitched the rest of this season healthy and stayed on the trajectory he was on, he would have been given a four or five year deal north of $20 million per year this off-season. Also, the Twins would have more likely than not offered Mahle the Qualifying Offer, which is valued at $19.65 million. Mahle and his agent will take a discount for 2024, as he will be recovering, but I don't think it will be for less than five million dollars, and he for sure won't accept an extremely discounted offer for 2025, as he and his agent plan on him being healthy for that season. Extending Mahle would be an expensive gamble, but I think it is an expensive gamble that would be worth it. 

    6 hours ago, ashbury said:

    Paddack's extension can be a starting point for thinking, but the two pitchers' contract situations are very different.  Paddack still had two arbitration years ahead of him, so he had less leverage when considering whether to accept the team's offer to guarantee him some money.  Mahle is already eligible for free agency after this season.

    Look at it a different way. Before signing his extension, Paddack had earned about $5M in major league salary*, which is good money but not quite at the "set for life" level for a variety of reasons.  The Twins' offer did take him past that threshold.  By contrast, Mahle has earned above $15M to date.  Assuming he's invested wisely, the Twins can't really approach him and his agent with "we'll guarantee you life-changing money" because his life is already changed for the better.

    Paddack chose not to gamble on a far higher payday at some intermediate point, during which something unrelated might also go wrong, while still maintaining the potential for a good outcome in free agency further down the road.  Mahle might see the gamble as less dependent on anything besides recovery from the elbow surgery, and he's better placed to shoulder** the risk if he wants to roll the dice.  Paddack thereby assured his own financial future; for all I know Mahle might be trying to fund a charitable foundation next, for example.

    I think signing Mahle's going to be harder, because from the Twins' perspective the two situations are indeed pretty similar.  The team will have to risk more, with more or less the same potential reward.

     

    * I'm taking my numbers from b-r.com, which I find sometimes to be unreliable for the kind of analysis I want to do.

    ** No pun intended, but there it is.

    I agree with everything you wrote and I appreciate your insight. I didn't mention Paddack's situation in my article, which I probably should have, so thank you for adding that context. Paddack and Mahle's situations are very different, and Mahle, as you wrote, not only has made more money than Paddack during his playing but has also performed at a higher level. Mahle will for sure cost more money than Paddack and even Pineda, but I think it is worth the risk. 

    Edited by Cody Schoenmann
    3 hours ago, Danchat said:

    I'd rather stick with just having the Paddack contract rather than having him and Mahle. With Ryan, Varland, and Ober on their rookie deals and Lopez just signing an extension, I think we are good with the rotation the way it is. And that's not mentioning what to do with Sonny Gray. Hard pass.

    For me, I don't think it would be smart for the Twins to put that much trust in Paddack and Varland. Paddack has had Tommy John Surgery twice, so we don't know if he is going to be able to maintain the velocity and movement that he possessed before his second surgery and Varland is still an unknown commodity who has struggled during his past two starts against the Rays and Blue Jays while sporting a HR/FB rate of 21.6%, which is very concerning. López, Ryan, and Ober are relatively known commodities who will be mainstays in the Twins rotation for a long time, but I don't think the Twins have much guaranteed beyond those three. It appears Gray is likely going to leave after this season, Varland has a HR issue, and once promising prospect Simeon Woods Richardson is struggling mightily in Triple-A. Extending Mahle gives the Twins, at the very least, another fall-back option who has shown that he can be a top of the rotation starting pitcher when healthy. 

    You can never have too much pitching. And a healthy Mahle is a pretty good rotation arm. So is Paddack,  based on the early returns after he joined the Twins. But for each guy, you just don't know how they will come back. Some guys are the same. Some better than ever. And some never make it back fully. So while I have hope for Paddack in 2024 and beyond, he's no sure thing. And there's no way, right now, to predict 2025. So why not have Mahle as a possible answer/option?

    But repeating pretty much everyone else, the numbers have to make sense. Not sure I agree with a troubled shoulder issue in 2022, and now TJ, and paying him $5M to recover. If so, then it should shrink the 2nd year value. 

    They can get him for 2yrs and $15M total with some IP incentives that could bump him to $17-18M, then I'm on board and the Twins should be as well. It's really not that big of a risk.

    But I'm also OK walking away and focusing any Mahle attention and $  elsewhere. 

    It would be wonderful to try, but Mahle also needs to agree.

    If you look at Mahle for 2 years, $20m. And a qualifying offer of, say, $20m for Gray (which you probably should offer and hope he balks...but as a team can probably afford it going into 2024)...that's $40 m you MIGHT spend on pitchers you have/had. You can probably find some ncie replacement arms.

    So that is the rub.

    Will Varland, Ober, Ryan be strong still come September? That sets up 2024. You hope Lopez remains the innings eater he has proven to be. Paddack will hopefully be back. 

    I wish names like Woods Richardson, Winder, Henriquez and already-under-contract Dobnak would be striking hope for being real contenders come 2024. Maybe Enlow will be THAT darkhorse, which means the Twins just need a solid journeyman to offer some competition and hold a few bodies back for more AAA development come next season.

    I don't know how many ways to say no but I'm tired of having players paid for recovery or for the IL. We have Buxton and perhaps Correa, plus polanco is now at a stage where he's having trouble staying healthy. We paid Pineda to recover and then let him go. We're paying paddock to recover and who knows what will happen then. Now you want to pay Mahle. I feel like we're an extension of essentia hospitals. 

    I like Cody's idea of loading up Tyler Mahle's extension offer with incentives. When he comes back, it will absolutely be a "prove it" year for him, just as the second half of this year could be for Chris Paddack. 

    I'd give Mahle $4 mil for a comfy recovery year, then offer him $15m first year back, with incentives that could pump it up to $20m. If he meets those, then the third year starts at $20m with incentives to get to $25m. If his first year back is disappointing, then repeat the first year back base and incentives.

    That would be my offer.

    10 hours ago, Cody Schoenmann said:

    For me, I don't think it would be smart for the Twins to put that much trust in Paddack and Varland. Paddack has had Tommy John Surgery twice, so we don't know if he is going to be able to maintain the velocity and movement that he possessed before his second surgery and Varland is still an unknown commodity who has struggled during his past two starts against the Rays and Blue Jays while sporting a HR/FB rate of 21.6%, which is very concerning. López, Ryan, and Ober are relatively known commodities who will be mainstays in the Twins rotation for a long time, but I don't think the Twins have much guaranteed beyond those three. It appears Gray is likely going to leave after this season, Varland has a HR issue, and once promising prospect Simeon Woods Richardson is struggling mightily in Triple-A. Extending Mahle gives the Twins, at the very least, another fall-back option who has shown that he can be a top of the rotation starting pitcher when healthy. 

    All good points. As it's always said; you can never have too many arms. I'm onboard with offering him an extension, but with the usual conditions: how much and for how long? I didn't know much about Mahle previous to last year's trade, but if his "stuff" is good enough, and if his shoulder issues are addressed, we should consider it. Yeah, yeah yeah; lots of ifs and buts, but I wouldn't hate an extension.

    I'm a no on this one. The concept has worked for the Twins before, but the price tag it would take to keep Mahle in the fold isn't going to be cheap and he's been unavailable too much to feel confident about him having a clean recovery from TJ. There's another price that you have to pay when you make a deal like this too: the 40-man roster spot. While teams usually have several fringe players on their 40-man by the end of a season that can get dropped, right now with the Twins farm system depth they're going to be tighter up against it when it comes to protecting prospects from the Rule 5 draft. Injured players can't get moved to the 60-day list and exempted from the 40-man until the start of the season after the Rule 5, so you're also potentially costing yourself a player that way as well.

    The trade busted. It was a reasonable move at the time (I still think the only one we'll truly regret losing is CES, but YMMV) but it crapped out because Mahle got hurt in both seasons. That sucks for the Twins (especially because Mahle could have been a difference-maker last season in holding the rotation together) but in this case you're throwing good money after bad in trying to find a way to extract value from this one. Move on.

    25 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

    I'm a no on this one. The concept has worked for the Twins before, but the price tag it would take to keep Mahle in the fold isn't going to be cheap and he's been unavailable too much to feel confident about him having a clean recovery from TJ. There's another price that you have to pay when you make a deal like this too: the 40-man roster spot. While teams usually have several fringe players on their 40-man by the end of a season that can get dropped, right now with the Twins farm system depth they're going to be tighter up against it when it comes to protecting prospects from the Rule 5 draft. Injured players can't get moved to the 60-day list and exempted from the 40-man until the start of the season after the Rule 5, so you're also potentially costing yourself a player that way as well.

    The trade busted. It was a reasonable move at the time (I still think the only one we'll truly regret losing is CES, but YMMV) but it crapped out because Mahle got hurt in both seasons. That sucks for the Twins (especially because Mahle could have been a difference-maker last season in holding the rotation together) but in this case you're throwing good money after bad in trying to find a way to extract value from this one. Move on.

    I'm sold. I was playing checkers while Mr Lease was playing chess, bravo. 




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