Brewers 7, Twins 3: Middle Relief Falls Short, Julien Plays First

Why would you leave Floro on to give up 6 hits and 5 runs, Baldelli gave the game away. You could see it going bad pull him already.

It was painful to watch Floro stay in there.  Agree with others, when a pitcher doesn't have it, why let him continue to get pounded?  That was giving up on the game early.

6 hours ago, hitterscount said:

It was clear that Ober wasn’t at his best… after mowing down 8 straight? Give me a break… I have said it repeatedly, Rocco is clueless in his pitching staff management. Pulling a pitcher who is under 80 pitches that hasn’t given up a run in four innings is just another example of just how terrible he is with in game decisions and substitutions. I said last week he has cost this team 12-15 wins, make it 13-16. Another solid outing by a starter wasted. What a horrible decision to extend this clown.

Everything you said is God's honest truth. Might I add on the offensive side a philosophy of putting the ball in play and not swinging for the fences on every count has worked for over 100 years.

Nibbled to death by ducks. Sigh. Just one of those days/nights at the ballpark. Let's hope bats ignite tomorrow!

I can’t decide which was worse.  Floro’s performance or Rocco’s decision to use him clinging to a one run lead in the sixth inning when of the rest of the bullpen was “fresh”.  What is he,  The 5th best bullpen option at best?

Ober should’ve pitched in 6th inning. Only 78 pitches that was bad mistake by Rocco taking him out. Floro was horrible and this can’t continue or keep happening. This is tough stretch of games and we need to win these. 

If Correa catches that soft liner with the runner going, that’s a double play and they are out of the inning down 4-3.  That  hurt.

Rocco is perhaps the biggest reason the Twins cannot be taken seriously.  The decision to pull Ober after only 5 innings and 78 pitches to "save his arm" is typical Baldelli nonsense.  Leaving Floro in so long to get beat up and give another game away is inexcusable.  I believe it is at least 12 games Rocco has thrown away in game by all of a sudden deciding to not be competitive.  It slaps in the face of fans and the players not to at least give the appearance that you are trying to win games.  This is one of the biggest reasons it is so hard to get behind this team.

6 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Rocco is perhaps the biggest reason the Twins cannot be taken seriously.  The decision to pull Ober after only 5 innings and 78 pitches to "save his arm" is typical Baldelli nonsense.  Leaving Floro in so long to get beat up and give another game away is inexcusable.  I believe it is at least 12 games Rocco has thrown away in game by all of a sudden deciding to not be competitive.  It slaps in the face of fans and the players not to at least give the appearance that you are trying to win games.  This is one of the biggest reasons it is so hard to get behind this team.

What good does it do to do this.  They won't have a down the stretch with moves like this "Ober had bounced back from a rough start to the outing. Having retired eight in a row, he rebounded well. Baldelli indicated that limiting innings for him down the stretch will be a thing, and tonight this was the spot."

What good does it do to do this.  They won't have a down the stretch with moves like this "Ober had bounced back from a rough start to the outing. Having retired eight in a row, he rebounded well. Baldelli indicated that limiting innings for him down the stretch will be a thing, and tonight this was the spot."

Another perfect example of Baldelli mismanaging the bullpen. 

Baldelli managing Ober like the Twins have already won the division and just giving games away as if the division's already clinched. 

This is typical of Rocco - he gives up on games and always plays with tomorrow in mind rather than going for wins TODAY. Gives up wayyyy too easy. The whole team does, in fact. 

52 minutes ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

If Correa catches that soft liner with the runner going, that’s a double play and they are out of the inning down 4-3.  That  hurt.

Anyone know if there are stats that warrant bringing the IF in? Seems that the majority of the time, bringing the IF in doesnt pay off and you give up easy bloopers. The Turang blooper would have been an out if we were playing at normal depth, the hit over Correa would have been an out and then the trickle up the middle would have been an out too. 

I thought I had read somewhere that the Twins SP are in the top 2 or 3 in IP this year.

Also, this year Ober has also blown past the most innings he has thrown in any professional season.

Maybe a little insight into the decisions being made last night...   

Floro gave up six singles. He wasn’t walking batters. He didn’t give up home runs. Two of the singles had an XBA in the 100s. Correa should have been given an error on the missed double play. There was another throw from Wallner offline that put runners in scoring position. Farmer could have come off the bag there also. 

As for Baldelli he sees Floro strike out batter three and the next two batters hit balls for singles with exit velocities in the 60s. Batter number six hits a double play soft liner to Correa that he gets every time except yesterday. I don’t see indicators in batters three through six that Floro was not effective. I will argue that Baldelli should not have had the infield in as early as he did that inning.

The sixth inning was a team effort and the biggest burden of letting the game get away should be on Correa’s shoulders with an assist from Baldelli playing the infield in at that point.

45 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

So I'm legitimately curious if there's any limit fans around here would put on him, or would you all just let him throw an unlimited amount of innings?

The season ends in October. I'd let him rest then. That should be about 8 more starts.

That's a snarky response but I think way too much emphasis is placed on "innings" and not enough on current physical condition. If he's pitching through fatigue and soreness then he needs rest. If he's feeling good then he should pitch.

I am not a believer that an extra day off for a starter makes a significant difference long term. They just had three days off in 11. I wrote heading into it that they had an opportunity to run a 4 man rotation for about two weeks through the 24th. My interest was dropping Keuchel but it could have been used for Ober.

Instead of giving Ober an extra day off twice why not give him real rest that might make a difference the rest of the season? That is probably not a field staff decision but one that comes from the front office who would have needed to option Ober or IL him to get that rest.

Watched the game on TV here in Wisconsin....FWIW - The In-Game announcers voiced surprise and relief when Ober did not come out for the 6th. It was also one of the first mentions by the Brewer's post-game show. The game time temperature last evening was a comfortable 78 degrees. Today's game will be nearly 20 degrees warmer with an equal bump in humidity. Would that not play into your managerial strategy with said "Fresh Bullpen"??!! Ober appeared to have 1 - 3 more outs in him. Why not have arms up in the bullpen with watchful eye. Facing Burnes today the pressure is on Maeda. Conditions such as these can wilt a bullpen quickly. The effects of a short start could have large repercussions.  Remember the series at Wrigley a few years ago??? Whew!! Did our manager and shortstop wilt a bit last evening??

38 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

So I'm legitimately curious if there's any limit fans around here would put on him, or would you all just let him throw an unlimited amount of innings?

It's not like fans are clamoring for him to have pitched another 12 innings yesterday.  I'm positive his arm wouldn't have fallen off with ONE more inning yesterday.  I don't understand the argument that 5 innings last night falls within the realm of safe, responsible workload but 6 would have crossed the line.  Why not yank him after 4?  After 3?  Wouldn't that be more responsible?  For god's sake, he only pitched 70 innings last year!

This is going to be a thing in the playoffs, folks.  Due to the terrible Central the Twins are going to have a long time to script out the playoffs.  Get prepared for 5 inning starts out of Gray and Lopez.  After all, the bullpen's gonna be fresh just like it was last night, right?  Listen to Rocco:  the decision to yank Ober had nothing to do with pitch count/innings limits.  It was because Rocco thought turning it over to Dylan Floro gave the team the best chance to win.  That should be the A topic today, not innings limits.

I was stunned when Ober was pulled.  He had settled down and was in a groove with a relatively low pitch count.  It is worth noting that Ober didn't appear happy with the decision either.

There is no way the infield should be in with runners on first and third with one out.  At some point outs become more important than runs to stem the hemorrhaging. 

Credit should also go to the Brewers who know that when the infield is in the important thing to do is make contact and good things will happen.  It would be great if Rocco would see stuff like this happen and encourage situational hitting in our dugout as well.  Is this too much to ask?