3 Twins Players It's Time to Move On From This Offseason

[Czelgert]

I’m glad someone is finally willing to cut bait with Royce.  His swing is too long and his plate discipline has largely disappeared.  If you haven’t figured it out, the league has, which is to pitch him away, away, and further away and he’ll swing his away out of ABs.  Now, the question is whether the FO can find a 1B with some pop rather than the pea shooters they waste cycling through at 1B. 

[Twins GFP]

10 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Says more about the twins pitching staff as a whole, then it does about Ober, doesn't it?

 

Well, considering pitching WAR is valued inn the neighborhood of $8m plus, I think Ober's 1.8 WAR this season warrants a hard look at keeping him, especially if he is arbitrated around $8m.

[SteveLV]

I am fine with Ober, but not at $8M.  If he would sign for half that, sure.

Lewis will be a decision after Spring Training. If he doesn't turn it around, gonzo.

Larnach will not be tendered, IMO.

Bell, he is an average DH who cannot help at all defensively.  Meh.

Martin, see Lewis above.

Kremer is under contract, and they appear to like his stuff.  He is a depth SP.

Rogers will not be re-signed, IMO.

Jeffers should be offered a contract but will walk in FA.

Caratini?  Trade him is someone wants him. Poor signing.

Jackson, who knows?  Backup C I guess.

Kreidler can't hit.

Ross should be given a chance in Spring Training.  Hard to believe he could hit worse than Kreidler.

Gabby Gonzalez?  Who knows?  Spring Training audition for 1B/DH.

ERod should get at least half a season at MLB to see what he can do.  At least he can field. Hope he stays on the field.

Wallner?  I would like to see him in Spring Training competing for DH.

This is not a good roster, folks.

 

 

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

9 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

It says he’s not one of the top three players to move on from.

Agreed he is not in the top 3 to move on from and not even top 5, Larnach, Wallner, Gray, Roden, Lewis, and others on the 40 man. But also doesn't mean they shouldn't be looking to upgrade from him. As of right now, today the rotation for next year is set in the top three  Ryan, Lopez, Bradly, and some combo of Prielipp, Abel, Matthews for the next two/three. Those 3 have to be on the major league roster in some role, you don't send down 25, 26 and 27 year olds to roster guys like Ober and Kremer. I get there isn't much depth after that, and that is something they need to solve in the offseason, any maybe they do that by trading Pablo and/or Ryan and that opens up a spot for a Ober/Kremer. They pissed away an option for Ober back in 22 when the brain "no so" trust decided he should be in the minors at age 26 for Bundy and Archer pissed away a season. 

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

14 minutes ago, Twins GFP said:

Well, considering pitching WAR is valued inn the neighborhood of $8m plus, I think Ober's 1.8 WAR this season warrants a hard look at keeping him, especially if he is arbitrated around $8m.

So who aren't you aren't you starting? Lopez, Ryan, Bradly, Prielipp, Abel, Matthews, or even Rojas?

[NYCTK]

37 minutes ago, Andy MacPhail said:

Twins handled him very poorly, from throwing him in CF, tinkering with his swing, to poorly handling his temperamental personality.

I don't know enough about the last two (nor does anyone else frankly), but this idea that the Twins screwed up by asking an athletic baseball player to play CF is just so insane. The coddling of players needs to stop. 

The Twins were 100% RIGHT to ask their top and super athletic prospect to play CF with his primary position currently blocked. And the retroactive criticism is just plain wrong. 

[terrydactyls]

56 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Ober has the 3rd highest WAR on the pitching staff this season.

That's like saying I'm the second fastest in my two-person household.

[NYCTK]

28 minutes ago, Road trip said:

I saw a headline from the Trib today, and an earlier article in the Pioneer Press, that Wallner does not expect to ever be called up to the Twins again.  I can't blame him as he tore up AAA all summer and never got a call back.  

Sad fact is, despite the results being good, his under the hood performance is significantly worse than his last extended stint in AAA in 2024, suggesting he'd still be likely to struggle back in the majors. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, StiltedGopher said:

Lanarch is preventing trying someone who could be a better solution - we wasted time using him this year already.  

Royce gets to compete, but it should be a competition. Don’t dump him for a rental scrap heap first baseman.  

Kreidler - hard to believe we gave that guy over 200 plate appearances.  
 

Larnach has a better OPS and BA than Lewis; Lewis should hit the road.

Kreidler saved the day from Mr. Grand Slam Gray and tiny range Lee.

Lewis love comes from his Grand Slams  very early on, Nothing else; Gray and he actually look a lot alike.

[NYCTK]

33 minutes ago, Czelgert said:

I’m glad someone is finally willing to cut bait with Royce.  His swing is too long and his plate discipline has largely disappeared.  If you haven’t figured it out, the league has, which is to pitch him away, away, and further away and he’ll swing his away out of ABs.  Now, the question is whether the FO can find a 1B with some pop rather than the pea shooters they waste cycling through at 1B. 

Hey man, some of us wanted to trade him when he still had SOME value back in 2024. 

[terrydactyls]

44 minutes ago, Linus said:

So you would rather have Travis Adams?

You guys certainly missed the point.  All I was commenting about was the Twins "philosophy" of looking for broken down players that were good two or three years ago.  I never mentioned Ober.  You and DJL44 brought up his name.

[HarmonK03]

26 minutes ago, SteveLV said:

Kremer is under contract, and they appear to like his stuff.  He is a depth SP.

Kremer is arb eligible, he can be non-tendered and should be or else put in the bullpen.  He is just another vet blocking younger guys which is this team's m.o.  Both him and Ober are in the same boat.

[Twins GFP]

16 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

So who aren't you aren't you starting? Lopez, Ryan, Bradly, Prielipp, Abel, Matthews, or even Rojas?

Prelipp, Matthews, and Rojas are no guarantees. You know what you are getting with Ober. Lopez still needs to return...

Did you look at how many SP the Twins went through this year? Moving proven SP that pitch at or above their contract should not be taken lightly.

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

5 minutes ago, Twins GFP said:

Prelipp, Matthews, and Rojas are no guarantees. You know what you are getting with Ober. Lopez still needs to return...

Did you look at how many SP the Twins went through this year? Moving proven SP that pitch at or above their contract should not be taken lightly.

I have said before if they start with a 6 man rotation to ease Lopez and Abel back in and keep Ryan fresh, then keep Ober or Kremer around, but either of those two starting at the expense of the those guys is the same crap they have been doing for the last few years, and in case you haven't noticed it hasn't worked out to well for them. Prielipp, Abel and Bradley and hopefully Rojas are the future for the Twins rotation, not Ober, so get them in. 

[IndyTwinsFan]

1 hour ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Says more about the twins pitching staff as a whole, then it does about Ober, doesn't it?

 

BINGO! 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

This team is not so flush with pitchers that they can throw away Bailey Ober.

We have 9,  count em 9 MLB caliber starting pitchers.  We don't have enough innings for all of them.  

Lopez, Ryan, Bradley, Abel, Kremer, Ober, Matthews, Priellip, Rojas and #10 is Paredes who acquitted himself quite well.  

[S Bart]

1 hour ago, Andy MacPhail said:

It breaks my heart too, to see how many promising young Twins players fizzling out. Royce Lewis tops that list. A potential MVP candidate. Twins handled him very poorly, from throwing him in CF, tinkering with his swing, to poorly handling his temperamental personality. There were other conditions but it seems like Lewis is broken. I had big hopes in Lewis, even though Boras is his agent, I thought Lewis loved it here & a reasonable extension was possible. Now, IMO, his attitude has changed, MN is no longer his team. IMO, Lewis would still turn it around but not as a Twin. It saddens me but the sooner we trade Lewis the better.

They trade him....not against it... but probably will make him a winner somewhere else...happens to Twins. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

38 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Kremer is arb eligible, he can be non-tendered and should be or else put in the bullpen.  He is just another vet blocking younger guys which is this team's m.o.  Both him and Ober are in the same boat.

Could say the same thing about Lewis.  The difference is you like Lewis.  

[Road trip]

56 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

So who aren't you aren't you starting? Lopez, Ryan, Bradly, Prielipp, Abel, Matthews, or even Rojas?

I'd be quite surprised if Abel doesn't start the year in AAA.  He's coming back from surgery, and has only limited MLB experience anyway.  He may or may not be effective out of the gate.

That doesn't mean Abel won't be in the Twins rotation by May, replacing whichever of the original 5 has suffered the semi-inevitable injury requiring an IL stint.

[S Bart]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

We have 9,  count em 9 MLB caliber starting pitchers.  We don't have enough innings for all of them.  

Lopez, Ryan, Bradley, Abel, Kremer, Ober, Matthews, Priellip, Rojas and #10 is Paredes who acquitted himself quite well.  

Half will probably be injured by May..

[MeleMouth]

1 hour ago, Twins GFP said:

This article needs to be re-written:

Players currently guaranteed roster spots next year:
Luke Keaschall
Kody Clemens
Byron Buxton
Brooks Lee
Taj Bradley
Joe Ryan
Yoendrys Gomez

That's it. A few more are in the "probably" category (Culpepper, Caratini), but everyone else is subject to salary, proving it, or the Twins finding someone better.

Good points and list, except Ryan should be traded.

[HarmonK03]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Could say the same thing about Lewis.  The difference is you like Lewis.  

You are correct and I think they should give him another year unless it's a clear upgrade and that doesn't mean Clemens.   But Lewis isn't necessarily a vet yet in my opinion, in another year then it is a different discussion.  But he's not blocking anyone, they have no one else to play first currently.  

If you keep both Kremer and Ober or even one, as things stand Prielipp and or Matthews are in AAA and I think they have pitched well enough to start spring training in the rotation.  Kremer is not a clear upgrade over either one of them.  I think Ober has pitched better this year than others do, so I can go either way with him.  They would still have 8 to 9 starters, you aren't going into the year with 15 starters it's not feasible, injuries happen.

[MeleMouth]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

We have 9,  count em 9 MLB caliber starting pitchers.  We don't have enough innings for all of them.  

Lopez, Ryan, Bradley, Abel, Kremer, Ober, Matthews, Priellip, Rojas and #10 is Paredes who acquitted himself quite well.  

That's 9 pitchers who have started in the MLB, but only three or four have proven they are or still are MLB caliber starting pitchers, and one of them is coming back from his second TJ.

[HarmonK03]

35 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

I have said before if they start with a 6 man rotation to ease Lopez and Abel back in and keep Ryan fresh, then keep Ober or Kremer around, but either of those two starting at the expense of the those guys is the same crap they have been doing for the last few years, and in case you haven't noticed it hasn't worked out to well for them. Prielipp, Abel and Bradley and hopefully Rojas are the future for the Twins rotation, not Ober, so get them in. 

Abel should start in St. Paul, others have passed him by.  He has not done enough to be handed a starting job.  This is what happens when you are injured.  He has great stuff and had a couple of good outings but still struggled to throw strikes at times.  I am not altering my rotation for Abel, he can start the year in St. Paul and show he is better than the other options up here.

[Mai.K]

It’s already been three years...

At this point, I have far more memories of Lewis struggling than playing well, but even so, I’m not ready to give up on him yet.

He can provide some versatility at third base and first base (and maybe even second base or shortstop?), he still has one option year remaining next year, and a right-handed bat is valuable for our team. On top of that, I don’t think his arbitration salary next year will be all that expensive.

So I’m hoping we give him at least one more year to see what he can do.

[mikelink45]

1 hour ago, Twins GFP said:

This article needs to be re-written:

Players currently guaranteed roster spots next year:
Luke Keaschall
Kody Clemens
Byron Buxton
Brooks Lee
Taj Bradley
Joe Ryan
Yoendrys Gomez

That's it. A few more are in the "probably" category (Culpepper, Caratini), but everyone else is subject to salary, proving it, or the Twins finding someone better.

I am sorry to have to add Caratini - but someone has to catch.  And what about Pablo? I suspect Morris is a sure keeper too. 

[MeleMouth]

I am not a Lewis fan, having never liked playing or working with someone who carries himself like he's the best, but then regularly failing to do things that smart players and team guys do and not performing  anywhere near as well as his talent suggests he should or the big shot way he presents himself.

However . . .

If they let Royce go, there is no clear answer on the roster to replace him with; and

He's still very talented and not costly.

If they replace Shelton or anyone on their coaching staff, it could benefit everyone to get an old school coach who will give Royce tough love and hard messages instead of the constant boomer parent affirmation and glass half full excuses he's used to. It would be kind of like how, in the movie Moneyball, the Billy Beane character gave the David Justice character a hard dose of reality to take him down a peg or three.

[Jacksson]

AND..

Matt Wallner, Josh Bell, Joe Ryan, Ryan Jeffers, Byron Buxton, Luke Keaschall, Travis Adams, Jeff Hoffman, Eric Orze, Taylor Rogers, Cole Sands, Tristin Gray, Austin Martin, Alan Roden, Aaron Sabato, David Banuelos, Ron Marinaccio, German Marquez, Julian Merryweather, Aaron Rozek, Cody Laweryson,  Anthony Banda, and others.

[MeleMouth]

1 hour ago, Road trip said:

I saw a headline from the Trib today, and an earlier article in the Pioneer Press, that Wallner does not expect to ever be called up to the Twins again.  I can't blame him as he tore up AAA all summer and never got a call back.  

This thought may be a misconception. Good stats at AAA against lesser pitchers don't mean as much anymore. What is much more important is quality and frequency of contact. The data we have about Wallner's quality of contact in AAA is that he's OK, but not great, but Wallner's frequency of contact in AAA remains sub-standard, even though his raw skills allow him to frequently go yard off lower quality pitches.

Also, and this is me projecting, but I'm hopeful that the Twins' reluctance to bring Wallner back is partly due to their deciding not to roster bad fielders any more.

So net-net, despite his good HR and SLG stats, what the Twins could see with Wallner is decent but not great quality of contact, poor strike zone control, and possibly even worse defense. Previously, the Twins were good with that profile, but now it actually could be a good sign that they are backing away from it.

Wallner should have been traded at the deadline for a Class A pitching prospect, kind of like how the Twins traded Julien, or be converted to pitching.

[Andy MacPhail]

Always had hope that Ober would regain his velo, but he continues to drop. Ober is still an asset & you can't have too much pitching, so I'd not trade him for anything. I've been willing to trade him when his price was high & there was a glut, but the Twins were reluctant. There's still a glut & there is still a market so find a trade.