Target Field's Attendance Problem Goes Beyond the Organization's Inflated Numbers

[Twins_Fan_For_Life]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

Attendance will get better and crowds bigger!!! Last night was most important win of season as twins are must watch every game!!! Especially now as we are only 1.5 back of wild card and 4.5 back in division!!! It’s going to be intense action packed 2nd half!!! Buckle up!!! 

Tom Pohlad?  Is that you?

[Patzky]

44 minutes ago, David Maro said:

First off we have to stop blaming attendance on payroll. It's not payroll that's the problem with the Mets or how about the Guardians. The FO over the last few years was plain and simple terrible. They drafted poorly and made bad trades. You have players in the minors who everyone wants to see but can't stay healthy. You have players who can't perform on the big stage and have to return to the minors as well. And last but not least the location of the stadium is not good. The lack of law enforcement in the area is a concern.

The location is the biggest draw.. you can't be serious.  I wonder if people who barely follow the Twins even know who Walker Jenkins and Kaelin Culpeper are. Winning will help. The Light rail construction project will not 

[DJL44]

16 minutes ago, Sjoski said:

The math tells the story:

The Inventory Reality

The Minnesota Lynx: 20 home games \times ~19,000 capacity = 380,000 total tickets to sell per year.

Minnesota United (Loons): 17 home games \times ~19,500 capacity = 331,500 total tickets to sell per year.

The Minnesota Twins: 81 home games \times ~38,500 capacity = 3,118,500 total tickets to sell per year.

Comparing Twins to Lynx next door is classic "Apples to Oranges"... it's  not logical. 

That’s 750,000 times where MN sports fans had a decision about what ticket to buy and they decided they would rather watch the Lynx or Loons than attend a Twins game. 

[NYCTK]

13 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing.

My point is that winning is tied to attendance, viewership, and numbers of people listening on the radio. It seems fairly simple - Twins win a bunch, attendance goes up ......

Maybe I'm wrong. A poster said one could not give away a ticket to the Shohei-Joe game. That game was a sellout and scalpers made bank that night. I understand there are people who are angry at the Pohlads, but I'm not talking about them regarding attendance. I'm thinking most casual fans have no idea who owns the Twins. I don't follow the Vikings and don't know who owns them. I do know most of the minor leaguers for the Twins. 

Maybe a different way to look at it is if one conducted a poll in a public space (Mall of America or maybe at twenty five locations across the Midwest asking people to write down their top five choices of sports. Just riffing here.

In any event, my best guess is that if the Twins win games, their attendance will go up. This doesn't seem controversial or political .... at least it doesn't to me.

I misunderstood your comment then. Others have stated that the Twin Cities just won't support a baseball team in general and I thought you were echoing that sentiment. 

The Mets are now going through the same cycle. For two short years being a Mets fan was cool, people WANTED to go to Citi Field. The front office had built a buzzy product. But the GM absolutely screwed the pooch, flipped the identity of the team and now convincing friends to head out to Queens is a struggle. 

It's tied to winning but it's not dependent on it. What the Padres and Rockies have successfully done by making their games THE event in the city, win or loss, is quite remarkable.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I think there is more to this story of low attendance, which TD writers and posters ignore. I  don't think Minnesota and the surrounding areas are capable of successfully supporting a major league baseball team...

They sold out Target Field for years when it opened. Weather is not the driving reason people attend games. Right now, attendance is lower than it was in the Metrodome.

Fans hate the Pohlads and don't want to put any money into the Pohlad's pockets.

The Twins are not exciting or popular.

Baseball is not exciting or popular in general.

Attending Twins games is boring because the stadium is empty (catch-22).

Minnesota United sell out 20k fans every game. A diverse crowd of all ages and ethnicities, and honestly, I see demand continuing to rise. It's popular. Soccer is popular despite being intensely boring IMHO.

It's about the game day experience. It always has been. It always will be, and the Pohlad's are clueless.

 

[bean5302]

In regard to the arguments people care about players names or the game itself...

I've pointed this out before and I still remember @USAFChief vehemently disagreeing, but he's still wrong :p

Take me out to the ball game! (event)

Take me out with the crowd! (ambiance)

Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jack (event)

I don't care if I never get back (ambiance)

Root, root, root for the home team (ambiance)

If they don't win it's a shame (ambiance)

For it's 1 - 2 - 3 strikes, you're out! (is actually baseball related)

At the 'ol ball game! (event)

Almost nothing in that entire song is actually about baseball.

[NYCTK]

13 minutes ago, Sjoski said:

The Twins Fan Base:  relies heavily on suburban families pulling out of driveways from places like Lakeville, Woodbury, or Plymouth. They are looking for a classic, seamless, secure "family night out" experience.

This would be a disastrous base building.

Those families are going to 1-4 games a season, on the weekends. You want to make sure they're welcome but you need to build your attendance with more local regulars. People that work or live in Minneapolis, that are going to go 6-12 games a season with 1-3 friends. 

[DJL44]

13 minutes ago, Sjoski said:

Another "Apples to Oranges " comparison that fails with reality. 

● The Twins Fan Base:  relies heavily on suburban families pulling out of driveways from places like Lakeville, Woodbury, or Plymouth. They are looking for a classic, seamless, secure "family night out" experience.

vs

● The Loons Fan Base: Soccer clubs thrive on a younger, hyper-localized, urban demographic. 

I can only speak for myself.  I'm not risking a night downtown with my family when I can watch from home....but even watching from home is dropping off severely. 

No. There are plenty of suburban soccer fans. It is one of the most popular youth sports. They’re all fighting for the same corporate entertainment dollars for the suites.

Baseball fans like stats, right? Basketball and soccer participation are basically flat but youth baseball and softball participation rates have dropped 25% since Target Field opened.

https://projectplay.org/state-of-play-2025/participation-trends

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

No. There are plenty of suburban soccer fans. It is one of the most popular youth sports. They’re all fighting for the same corporate entertainment dollars for the suites.

Baseball fans like stats, right? Basketball and soccer participation are basically flat but youth baseball and softball participation rates have dropped 25% since Target Field opened.

https://projectplay.org/state-of-play-2025/participation-trends

Meanwhile the league just proposed banning players from going pro out of high school...

MLB owners are doing their best to kill the sport completely. 

[MikeNC]

For me it was the unbelivable dumbness of giving away Jax and Varland: 2 highly effective and yet CHEAP players.  That destroyed the bullpen.  The message sent to fans was: "We are ok destroying the team's competitiveness to save a nickel".  I got off the train.  I have wandered back because they are not totally horrible and I love baseball.  Now we have MLB's worst defense, and a bullpen that blows a 7 run lead to the worst team in MLB.  I don't need to win the pennant, just want to watch a decent product on the field.  Hopefully this new mgmt. will make sensible decisions, I get the cheap approach, that's ok with me.  MLB has created this by not having revenue sharing like the NFL.

[bean5302]

Also, pretty sure I've covered what the Twins SHOULD do to get people to the game.

1) Give away tickets to competing high schools. Fill entire sections with high school students. At least 1,000 seats a game during the school year. Give them a free hot dog and soft drink/water. Give them an exclusive meet and greet with players. Have give-away items for the winners (and losers) of the competition of who cheers loudest, etc. 

2) Good give-aways. Not a Truly fanny pack or a container of dental floss or whatever they give away. Something exciting. TWINGO too. Make it actually worth playing and going to the game potentially rewarding.

3) Market steep discounts to nearby apartments and condos on season ticket packages. Sign up rates for the building increase the discount. Give free season ticket packages away to those management companies for participating. Get season ticket holders back. There are none anymore.

4) Partner with local (North Loop) tap rooms and restaurants to give away non-transferable Twins tickets before events.

5) Partner with influencers and pop culture people to advertise on social media.

6) Work social media bonuses into contracts.

The Twins (and baseball) events need to be seen as popular and fun to attend. Pohlad still thinks it's about winning and losing. Idiot. Winning helps. Playoffs "help" but it's correlation vs. causation at work.

[bean5302]

10 minutes ago, MikeNC said:

For me it was the unbelivable dumbness of giving away Jax and Varland: 2 highly effective and yet CHEAP players.  That destroyed the bullpen.  The message sent to fans was: "We are ok destroying the team's competitiveness to save a nickel".  I got off the train.  I have wandered back because they are not totally horrible and I love baseball.  Now we have MLB's worst defense, and a bullpen that blows a 7 run lead to the worst team in MLB.  I don't need to win the pennant, just want to watch a decent product on the field.  Hopefully this new mgmt. will make sensible decisions, I get the cheap approach, that's ok with me.  MLB has created this by not having revenue sharing like the NFL.

Attendance went up after Mauer retired. Up after Puckett retired. Up after Santana was traded and Hunter left. Fans don't care about the names on the jerseys when it comes to game day attendance.

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, MikeNC said:

For me it was the unbelivable dumbness of giving away Jax and Varland: 2 highly effective and yet CHEAP players.  That destroyed the bullpen. 

Jax for Bradley was a kickass trade. 

[Omardog]

THERE IS NO COMMITMENT TO WINNING FROM THE GRIFTING POHLADS.   Ownership entered this season resigned to low attendance--all the promotion and gimmicks are cover for a business plan that accepts low attendance--and mediocre results--this season.   The Pohlads pulled back from selling last off season when they didn't get an offer they had counted on.  They now are counting on a new Basic Agreement between owners and the players' union to provide a mechanism for cost certainty when it comes to payroll, if not a salary cap then something like one.  That mechanism, the Pohlads believe, will add value to the franchise and raise the selling price.  That's all the Pohlads are in this for, they could not care less about the team's record, the fans or attendance.  They are true grifters.

[lecroy24fan]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Jax for Bradley was a kickass trade. 

I would say it's worked well for both teams at this point.

[krink]

I always get nervous with Sell talk, and hopefully a bunch of you will disagree with what I’m about to say and help assuage my fears. But the fact is, baseball is a very movable sport. I mean, look at the soon to be Vegas Athletics. The current Washington Nationals. The former Washington Senators.

My fear is that the Pohlads will sell to whoever offers top dollar, and not to whoever is committed to keeping the Twins in Minnesota. I’ve spent my entire life in Twins Territory, and I would be devastated if the place I’ve lived my whole life is suddenly not Twins Territory. Especially because, as another commenter has noted, there are some people who think Minnesota can’t support a team.

So, I’d rather continue to support what is currently the Pohlad’s Twins, because at the end of the day what I’m really supporting is Minnesota Baseball.

[MMBoys93]

1 hour ago, lecroy24fan said:

I would say it's worked well for both teams at this point.

Bradley has been the better pitcher AND he has two more years of club control. Pretty big win for the Twins at the moment 

[Mike Sixel]

Attendance is correlated with previous year's outcomes.... This shouldn't be a surprise. Also, if you keep trying not to win, at some point casual fans won't show. That's a good thing....

I'm sure there are people afraid to go downtown, but the stats are clear, it's safer than it was a decade or more in the past. I feel bad for those people. 

[MMBoys93]

16 minutes ago, krink said:

I always get nervous with Sell talk, and hopefully a bunch of you will disagree with what I’m about to say and help assuage my fears. But the fact is, baseball is a very movable sport. I mean, look at the soon to be Vegas Athletics. The current Washington Nationals. The former Washington Senators.

My fear is that the Pohlads will sell to whoever offers top dollar, and not to whoever is committed to keeping the Twins in Minnesota. I’ve spent my entire life in Twins Territory, and I would be devastated if the place I’ve lived my whole life is suddenly not Twins Territory. Especially because, as another commenter has noted, there are some people who think Minnesota can’t support a team.

So, I’d rather continue to support what is currently the Pohlad’s Twins, because at the end of the day what I’m really supporting is Minnesota Baseball.

The MLB as a whole would never allow the team to move states. At least not in the next 10-20 years 

[ashbury]

Congratulations, Pohlad family.  You right-sized the attendance.