Earliest Manager Firings

[jorgenswest]

Can a team turn it around by firing a manager early in the season? Can the Twins? I was curious to look at teams that fired their manager early in the season and how they responded. My source was an article from mlb.com in 2018.

• 2002 Tigers started 0-6 and fired Phil Garner replacing him with Luis Pujols. They finished the season 55-106. Pujols was not retained as manager the next season
• 1988 Orioles started 0-6 and fired Cal Ripken Sr replacing him with Frank Robinson. They finished 54-107 after starting 0-21. Robinson led them to an 87-75 record in 1989.
• 1972 Padres started 4-7 and fired Preston Gomez replacing him with Don Zimmer. They finished 58-95. Zimmer led them to a 60-102 record in 1973
• 1991 Phillies started 4-9 and fired Nick Leyva replacing him with Jim Fregosi.  They finished 78-84. Fregosi led them to a 70-92 season in 1992 and a World Series appearance in 1993.
• 2001 Rays started 4-10 and fired Larry Rothschild replacing him with Hal McRae. They finished 62-100. McRae led them to a 55-106 record in 2002.
• 1982 Yankees started 6-8 and fired Bob Lemon the manager that led them to a title in 1981. He was replaced by Gene Michael who was later replaced by Clyde King. The Yankees finished 79-83. King was not retained as manager in 1983
• 2018 Reds started 3-15 and fired Bryan Price replacing him with Jim Riggleman, They finished 67-95. Riggleman was not retained as manager in 2019.

I was hoping to find a team that turned things around with so much season left to play but all teams finished with losing records. Now I wonder if a team can get off to a bad start like the Twins and finish with a winning record having retained their manager.

Addition…

There are at least a few teams that started similarly to the Twins and finished successfully after retaining their manager.

• 2002 Athletics started 4-11. They stuck with Art Howe and finished 102-60
• 1914 Braves started 3-12 (also 4-18). They stuck with George Stallings and finished 95-59-5 winning the World Series. This is probably the most famous of the turn around teams. It isn’t a parallel fit to the top set since I didn’t have a list of manager changes prior to the expansion era.
• 2021 Braves started 6-9. They stuck with Brian Snitker and finished 88-73 winning the World Series
• 1991 Twins started 5-10. They stuck with Tom Kelly finishing 95-67 and won the World Series.

[RpR]

Gardenhire was horrible his last three years, and inept in the post season his entire time here, so, I doubt Baldelli is in too much trouble, except, maybe , them ripping him a new anus , verbally.

[howeda7]

54 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Can a team turn it around by firing a manager early in the season? Can the Twins? I was curious to look at teams that fired their manager early in the season and how they responded. My source was an article from mlb.com in 2018.

• 2002 Tigers started 0-6 and fired Phil Garner replacing him with Luis Pujols. They finished the season 55-106. Pujols was not retained as manager the next season
• 1988 Orioles started 0-6 and fired Cal Ripken Sr replacing him with Frank Robinson. They finished 54-107 after starting 0-21. Robinson led them to an 87-75 record in 1989.
• 1972 Padres started 4-7 and fired Preston Gomez replacing him with Don Zimmer. They finished 58-95. Zimmer led them to a 60-102 record in 1973
• 1991 Phillies started 4-9 and fired Nick Leyva replacing him with Jim Fregosi.  They finished 78-84. Fregosi led them to a 70-92 season in 1992 and a World Series appearance in 1993.
• 2001 Rays started 4-10 and fired Larry Rothschild replacing him with Hal McRae. They finished 62-100. McRae led them to a 55-106 record in 2002.
• 1982 Yankees started 6-8 and fired Bob Lemon the manager that led them to a title in 1981. He was replaced by Gene Michael who was later replaced by Clyde King. The Yankees finished 79-83. King was not retained as manager in 1983
• 2018 Reds started 3-15 and fired Bryan Price replacing him with Jim Riggleman, They finished 67-95. Riggleman was not retained as manager in 2019.

I was hoping to find a team that turned things around with so much season left to play but all teams finished with losing records. Now I wonder if a team can get off to a bad start like the Twins and finish with a winning record having retained their manager.

2003 Marlins won the World Series. Can't leave them off. 

[howeda7]

Unless they somehow go 3-1 in the next four games, Rocco should be fired before the next road trip. This is as bad of a stretch as I've ever seen given the talent on the team. They are sloppy, disengage and disinterested. All a reflection on Rocco. 

[nicksaviking]

The impetus is selling the team at an inflated price, not winning a World Series. Firing the manager probably isn't even close to a thought for them right now.

[Blyleven2011]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

The impetus is selling the team at an inflated price, not winning a World Series. Firing the manager probably isn't even close to a thought for them right now.

That's to  bad that they are focusing on exploring a sale of the team and not the product they are selling ...

Fans want no part of Baldelli managing this team and falvey is right behind him ...

Listen to your true fans as attendance flounders , Saturdays paid attendance was over 20 thousand  , from my eyes the seats were empty and real attendance was well below posted numbers ...

Fans want a more exciting game of baseball and it's been unacceptable since really the allstar game of last year  , yes injuries can be a factor but not a true contributor,  the young players look unprepared and not properly coached at the major league level  ...

COACHING HAS BEEN UNACCEPTABLE AND UNPREPARED TO COACH THIS TEAM AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL  ...

some kind of a spark is needed , new hitting coaches hasn't made a dent in the players capabilities ...

[jorgenswest]

7 hours ago, howeda7 said:

2003 Marlins won the World Series. Can't leave them off. 

I appreciate the addition. Maybe I should have expanded towards 40 games. 

Left them off because they were 16-22 at the time of the firing. After 30 games the Marlins were 15-15. I was looking for a team that fired their manager early in the season. I was looking for hope that this season could be turned around by replacing the manager. So far I didn’t find it.

I think a new thread is warranted though. What elite managers are available to replace him? Is there a Jack McKeon out there to take over?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Good question. Here is a very similar one from 2015 that set the firing date to “first half of season” but only looked back 10 years (or you could say it looked back 12 years, since it discusses the 2003 Marlins as the ideal result).

How Common Are Early-Season Manager Firings?

[bean5302]

While I wouldn't say Baldelli getting fired is an absolute zero, it'd be utterly shocking to me. The sale of the club has been unsuccessful and Baldelli's contract is still ongoing. The attendance has been terrible and the Twins' budget has to be tight for the Pohlad's after they eliminated some front office positions last year. Canning Baldelli would require a new manager. Who are you going to call in?

The look would be rough for Falvey and Baldelli, too, after they scapegoated Popkins. Suddenly the Twins bats suck again and Falvey has to ditch Baldelli, who've been joined at the hip since Baldelli was hired?

[djvang]

Firing Rocco won't change the lack of talent in the lineup. They're just not a good team.

[jorgenswest]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

While I wouldn't say Baldelli getting fired is an absolute zero, it'd be utterly shocking to me. The sale of the club has been unsuccessful and Baldelli's contract is still ongoing. The attendance has been terrible and the Twins' budget has to be tight for the Pohlad's after they eliminated some front office positions last year. Canning Baldelli would require a new manager. Who are you going to call in?

The look would be rough for Falvey and Baldelli, too, after they scapegoated Popkins. Suddenly the Twins bats suck again and Falvey has to ditch Baldelli, who've been joined at the hip since Baldelli was hired?

I don’t disagree.

However, I am not trying to guess what the Twins will do. I was simply curious if changing managers in the first 10% or so of the season has successfully turned around a season.

You are right about wondering who they would call in? It should be its own thread and right now I haven’t done the work to make a list of who might be available.

[I Miss The Lakes]

23 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

1991 Twins started 5-10. They stuck with Tom Kelly finishing 95-67 and won the World Series.

I was in the Marines that year, and couldn't follow the team much from overseas.
That had to have been a helluva fun team to watch going 90-57 to finish out the season.
Fortunately, I made it back in time to see the World Series.

[Trov]

As the post pointed out, it is still very early in season.  We have plenty of time to turn things around.  The teams that fired those managers clearly were bad teams.  This team has the talent, but lets not forget there was an illness floating around the clubhouse.  The fact that just about every hitter has done terrible to me gives some hope because not everyone will hit like that all year.  

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

When it comes to Rocco, there are two different questions at play...

1. SHOULD he be fired?

Answer to me is a resounding YES.

2. WILL he be fired?

Answer to me is a resounding NO...or least a NO until the end of the regular season.

[chpettit19]

I'd be surprised to see Rocco fired this early in the season, but I don't think a list of candidates for replacement is necessary to come up with because they wouldn't hire an outside person to replace him. It'd be an internal promotion and there wouldn't be any added staff.

With that being said, it'd be an interesting (to me, at least) thought exercise on how much credit you'd give to Tingler or whoever replaced him internally if they fired Rocco. If the Twins ended up winning 90 games, 80 games, 70 games, whatever the total ended up being at the end of the year what amount of credit do you give to a guy who was already part of the original staff? Would likely depend on how noticeable of a shift there is in on field strategies. But I don't see them firing Rocco this early, and really don't see them bringing in someone from the outside.

As someone who believes talent wins and managers have a pretty minor impact on team win-loss records I'm not surprised that there aren't a lot of examples of teams that fired their managers early and saw drastic turn arounds.

[Jocko87]

In a fun with numbers type twist, did you know Bruce Bochy is under .500 for his managerial career?  It's a fickle mix.

[Jocko87]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6276167/2025/04/14/mlb-managers-job-status-change/

9 MLB managers whose job status could be in question by the end of the season

Then this just this morning from Ken Rosenthal.  Rocco is the top of the list.  Oddly enough, there are others on the list that would look great in other places and the mix might work great.

Everyone rotate!

 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

24 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6276167/2025/04/14/mlb-managers-job-status-change/

9 MLB managers whose job status could be in question by the end of the season

Then this just this morning from Ken Rosenthal.  Rocco is the top of the list.  Oddly enough, there are others on the list that would look great in other places and the mix might work great.

Everyone rotate!

 

Sometimes players need a change of scenery. The same can also be said for managers.

[howeda7]

On 4/12/2025 at 11:46 PM, nicksaviking said:

The impetus is selling the team at an inflated price, not winning a World Series. Firing the manager probably isn't even close to a thought for them right now.

Drawing 10K a game with plummeting TV ratings isn't helping the value of the team. The value is dropping a little bit every day this drags on. 

-Fire Rocco immediately.

-Get the sale done with ASAP.

-Trade all tradable assets at the deadline.

-The new owner should fire Derek Falvey the day after the season.

-Start over. 

[cmoss84]

This is what happens when Major League and Little Big League make a baby.

[laloesch]

9 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Drawing 10K a game with plummeting TV ratings isn't helping the value of the team. The value is dropping a little bit every day this drags on. 

-Fire Rocco immediately.

-Get the sale done with ASAP.

-Trade all tradable assets at the deadline.

-The new owner should fire Derek Falvey the day after the season.

-Start over. 

I'm not sure how likely the team is to sell.  The Pohlads were asking for a pie in the sky amount plus the 400+ million in debt.  It doesn't seem likely at this point, but what do i know. 

Either way I think if they continue on like this till the deadline, there will be multiple assets traded, most likely Lopez to start along with whatever other moveable low hanging fruit they can dump.  I don't see the organization moving Buxton or Correa unless both are willing to drop their no trade clauses and the front office picks up the phone and reaches out to the teams that reportedly expressed interest in both players in the preseason.  I think for them to move either player it will have to include the Twins paying large portions of their remaining salaries and that seems EXTREMELY unlikely given the team is for sale and the Pohlads are historically cheapskates in such matters. 

The firing of Rocco is another matter.  Will Falvey fire him at the deadline?  Not sure, it also doesn't seem likely given past Twin's history.  However, if the team is historically bad up until the deadline vs. improving a bit to just mediocre, it might happen.  We will just have to wait and see.  This thing is going south really fast.  I don't see a turnaround happening with as badly as the offense has played, just don't see it.  

[nicksaviking]

9 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Drawing 10K a game with plummeting TV ratings isn't helping the value of the team. The value is dropping a little bit every day this drags on. 

-Fire Rocco immediately.

-Get the sale done with ASAP.

-Trade all tradable assets at the deadline.

-The new owner should fire Derek Falvey the day after the season.

-Start over. 

Right, but none of your bullet points will improve attendance or TV ratings. Hence, there is no impetus for doing any of them other than selling the team.

[tony&rodney]

Pittsburgh, Oakland, Colorado, Anaheim, Miami, Tampa Bay, and others have some ownership issues as well. Minnesota Twins fans have company. It seems like a long shot that the team will sell in the current economic uncertainty and an expected difficult CBA to negotiate in the near future along with the collapse of RSNs. 

If you are a Twins fan it is probably time to just forget about the team selling until is actually sells. It will save one unnecessary stress. Perhaps the Pohlads will make some changes after this year if they still own the team, although their seeming disinterest makes that probability low as well. Maybe the best hope is for Falvey to have a spiritual conversion of sorts in a baseball sense. In July the Twins make 3-4 trades to change the dynamics of the team. Just don't bet on anything.

[howeda7]

14 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Right, but none of your bullet points will improve attendance or TV ratings. Hence, there is no impetus for doing any of them other than selling the team.

It can marginally improve both if a change can spark at least .500 tolerable baseball. It won't cause either to do a 180. 

What's the argument AGAINST firing Rocco? And don't say $$ because neither Toby G nor Tingler will get massive raises for being the interim. 

[howeda7]

15 hours ago, laloesch said:

I'm not sure how likely the team is to sell.  The Pohlads were asking for a pie in the sky amount plus the 400+ million in debt.  It doesn't seem likely at this point, but what do i know. 

Either way I think if they continue on like this till the deadline, there will be multiple assets traded, most likely Lopez to start along with whatever other moveable low hanging fruit they can dump.  I don't see the organization moving Buxton or Correa unless both are willing to drop their no trade clauses and the front office picks up the phone and reaches out to the teams that reportedly expressed interest in both players in the preseason.  I think for them to move either player it will have to include the Twins paying large portions of their remaining salaries and that seems EXTREMELY unlikely given the team is for sale and the Pohlads are historically cheapskates in such matters. 

The firing of Rocco is another matter.  Will Falvey fire him at the deadline?  Not sure, it also doesn't seem likely given past Twin's history.  However, if the team is historically bad up until the deadline vs. improving a bit to just mediocre, it might happen.  We will just have to wait and see.  This thing is going south really fast.  I don't see a turnaround happening with as badly as the offense has played, just don't see it.  

If they were only going to sell if they got blown away, they'd never have publicly discussed it. I think the family wants out. Jim is done with it. His brothers never wanted it and Joe is an incompetent bafoon which the older ones now realize.

I think they were pretty far down the road with Ishbia when he pulled the plug, so it delayed things a lot. But if they have any sense, they will still take the next best offer and run. The public is as down on them as they've been since the contraction days and it will be even harder to recover. I don't really think they can. 

[nicksaviking]

7 hours ago, howeda7 said:

It can marginally improve both if a change can spark at least .500 tolerable baseball. It won't cause either to do a 180. 

What's the argument AGAINST firing Rocco? And don't say $$ because neither Toby G nor Tingler will get massive raises for being the interim. 

I don't want Baldelli as manager. Are you asking what is the Pohlad's argument against firing Baldelli? Apathy. Sorry, for as much as fans on this board care and want a new manager, the general public doesn't care and firing a manager would look like waiving a white flag to those people, further signaling a lost year to them and dysfunction to prospective buyers. They won't get more fans nor more buyers by firing the manager, so it's not important to them.

If Baldelli is fired, it will be because Falvey talks ownership into it, in a desperate attempt to save HIS job.

[mluebker]

Fire Baldelli and hire Doug Mientkiewicz through the end of the season with a club option for next year. Love him or hate him, he’d be the 21st century equivalent of hiring Billy Martin and would have the Twins playing a different kind of baseball, at the very least more fun to watch.

[Linus]

Thanks for compiling this information. Not really surprised. Teams lose because they are not very good. I see posters referring to all the talent on the Twins. As fas the lineup goes, I don’t see it.