With Ishbia Out of Picture, Sale of Minnesota Twins Has Bogged Down

[Richie the Rally Goat]

11 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I mean, the cynic in me says it's other real estate losses they sloughed on to the baseball team they also own. Twins LLC is listed as a percentage owner on the K1s for other ventures and they get to play shell games with debts, liabilities and earnings. 

It’s all private money, so Pohlad companies can sell off debt with an asset to clean up their books. Having been a part of private and public divestitures, that same tactic was used in all 3 of them.

[Vanimal46]

11 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

"Wanna buy a used car? The debt on it is considerable, the garage you park it in belongs to the city, the model is prone to catastrophic breakdowns and the previous owner will still want their nephew to drive it now and then."

Can't imagine why there's not much interest in this listing.

 

 

Interested buyer: The nephew doesn’t have his own car?

Pohlads: We gave him a Ford Taurus a few years ago. Figured there was no way he could damage it. But he ended up crashing into a tower and bankrupted the radio station nearby. He really likes this car though! 

[bean5302]

The debt and liquidity are the issues for the Pohlads which are probably driving the sale rather than a major issue for the new buyers.

Quote

...Joe Pohlad would prefer to stay in control of the club...
...Pohlad remaining in some capacity with a new ownership group isn’t out of the realm of possibility, multiple sources said...
...Joe is merely one arm of a much larger machine that is the Pohlad empire. He doesn't necessarily call the shots on payroll...

Joe Pohlad was brought in as a marketing guy. It was clear nepotism and Joe's been largely incompetent in the ways visible to Twins fans. The Minnesota (Mariners) logo which I literally fielded questions from opposing fans, and casual Twins fans a half dozen times a year. It has been universally panned. Joe's statements have hurt the reputation of the club publicly. The quick departure of Meka White Morris serves to highlight the probable dysfunction in the organization's marketing and revenue strategy (Joe Pohlad is a fairly likely source of the friction).

The fan survey on this site says it all. 5% approval, 95% disapproval. Fans want no more of the Pohlads right now.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1) This is Minnesota.  Did we really expect something to go positive and easy with one of our sports teams?

2) Joe Pohlad may want to stay on board, but it could easily be a posturing ploy, a negotiating piece for the sale.

3) If the immediate sale of the club has cooled, what does this mean for the on-field product?  Does the FO continue to be in a no-spend holding pattern?  For how long do we-as-fans have to suffer?

4) Forbes listed  the Twins value between $1.45-1.7 billion.  The Orioles recently sold for about $1.7 billion.  The Twins are not worth more than the Orioles.  We are about to find out how serious the Pohlad's are about moving the Twins.

[TheLeviathan]

When Ishbia bowed out there were so many people that brushed that off as it being "just a buyer dropping out, no biggie".....that never made sense to me.  This is the Pohlads we are talking about here.  Shady practices, incompetence, incoherence....these are what we've experienced for decades.  The canary already sang, we're just late to hearing it.

My skepticism has now grown to full blown pessimism.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

5 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

When Ishbia bowed out there were so many people that brushed that off as it being "just a buyer dropping out, no biggie".....that never made sense to me.  This is the Pohlads we are talking about here.  Shady practices, incompetence, incoherence....these are what we've experienced for decades.  The canary already sang, we're just late to hearing it.

My skepticism has now grown to full blown pessimism.

The canary in the coal mine doesn’t sing, it dies, just like our pitiful hopes and dreams

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

The canary in the coal mine doesn’t sing, it dies, just like our pitiful hopes and dreams

It appears I need to update that meme I used last time.....

 

 

[mikelink45]

Let's just trade for a Tesla dealership!

Attendance falling - of course Pohlads had nothing to do with the disastrous public relations!  

Debt and keeping a Pohlad running the show are certainly non-starters, but the reality is that the economy is on shaky grounds and even most billionaires have to be concerned with their money.

Another article says mlb needs to explore international expansion - try that in an atmosphere where the rest of the world has doubts about us.  

Salaries are so out of control no one wants to buy into this labor market.  Is Soto really worth all that money?  No.  At least Shohei has international marketing and plays for a team that has money to spare.  But the rest of the teams?

Correa, Buxton, Lewis - our big assets and our big question marks - a perspective buyer might notice.

My original degree - now in the historic past - says that a lot needs to happen to give the Pohlads the kind of return they want and they are not helping themselves - contraction anyone?

[LA Vikes Fan]

2 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Rumored to be expenses in excess of earnings.

The high debt shouldn't be a big surprise if we think about it. The team didn't fire staff or cut back on minor league services during Covid-19, a time when there was no gate or concession revenue. They don't draw very well and there  seems to be an aversion by some to going into Downtown Minneapolis. The bottom fell out of their TV revenue last year. Put all that together with the fact that while the payroll hasn't increased and is small compared to the coastal teams, it is and has been the highest in the Division and you get a team that has probably been operating in the red for the last couple of years, at least.  Hence, the need to take on debt. It could be worse, the Twins could do what Pittsburg, St. Louis, Cleveland, Tampa, Miami, etc. have done and drastically cut payroll to match revenue. 

Baseball is a tough operating business to make money on without high attendance and significant TV revenue. It's particularly tough in a mid-market city where you can't charge $150 - $200 for a decent seat at the game while drawing 3.5 million fans or more, and you don't get even a $50 million for your TV rights, much less the $100 million plus certain teams get.  To make matters worse, there isn't real estate opportunity in the surrounding land like there was for the Wilfs when buying the Vikings, and there is no TV white night on the horizon to open up the money taps and make everything better. 

Look, I am no fan of the Pohlads and can't wait until they sell the team. I do think they are caught between a rock and a hard place. The value in owning a mid-market sports franchise (other than the NFL) is the value appreciation you realize when you sell. They missed the great selling window 4-5 years ago and are now selling a good but not great team with poor attendance and no TV revenue to speak of into a very uncertain market surrounded by a very uncertain economic situation overall. The most logical buyer is a guy like Steve Cohen of the Mets who is incredibly wealthy, doesn't care if he makes money on an operating level, loves baseball, and is driven by ego and competitiveness to win. There aren't very many of those guys out there and I don't think any of them live in Minnesota. I think a sale will only happen if one of those guys gets interested or the Pohlads drop the price. I'm afraid that neither of those things will happen any time soon.   

 

[tony&rodney]

At least those people who want to forecast future payrolls can begin with an understanding that $100 M is an expectant ceiling. 

I'm not  surprised because while people always talk about bloat in public budgets the real excess is in private corporations. Often these corporations receive various and sundry forms of bailouts and tax benefits, none of which are available to small business or working people. An exception would be the military, which is truly excessive.

[nicksaviking]

11 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

This is from the article:

Though nearly every team operates with debt, the Pohlad family — which has owned the team for 40 years — is motivated to ask for a higher sale price as a result, potentially limiting interest. A considerable portion of the team’s debt has been added since the start of the 2020 season, according to a club source, which coincided with both the COVID-19 pandemic and George Floyd’s murder in downtown Minneapolis.

Right, so coinciding with real estate losses and then increasing interest rates. In other words, the kinds of debts and losses their PRIMARY ventures would incur. The debts are likely only baseball related because they put Twins LLC down as a partner in these other non-related businesses.

But plenty have suggested that the Pohlad's were only looking to sell the Twins to gain liquidity due to the current struggles of their other real estate businesses. Makes sense they'd try to also make a prospective buyer eat some debt from those same businesses that they care more about than the Twins.

[LA Vikes Fan]

39 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

1) This is Minnesota.  Did we really expect something to go positive and easy with one of our sports teams?

2) Joe Pohlad may want to stay on board, but it could easily be a posturing ploy, a negotiating piece for the sale.

3) If the immediate sale of the club has cooled, what does this mean for the on-field product?  Does the FO continue to be in a no-spend holding pattern?  For how long do we-as-fans have to suffer?

4) Forbes listed  the Twins value between $1.45-1.7 billion.  The Orioles recently sold for about $1.7 billion.  The Twins are not worth more than the Orioles.  We are about to find out how serious the Pohlad's are about moving the Twins.

Agree on all 4 points. The Twins are worth LESS than Baltimore, not more.  This reminds of the potential seller in a declining home market who says, "what do you mean we can't list my house for what I want, my neighbor got that two years ago and my house's much nicer"! This is a tough market for mid-level and below baseball teams. No TV money or logical path to getting more outside of the coasts, A lack of consensus and will to change the sport's economic structure to help less fortunate teams. A commissioner who  does not appear to be well respected in business circles and has little to no power over the richer teams. I could go on and on. Lot's of red flags here.  Hopefully the Pohlads will find a rich guy who wants a sports team on his resume/trophy case who will buy and invest in the tea, I thought Ishbia might be that guy.  Hope there's another one, because buying the Twins as a business proposition is high risk/ low reward from a business standpoint. 

[ryanking61]

I was so looking forward to the breath of fresh air and some ownership that might actually WANT to win too. And they still wanna remain with the team? And they expect to see someone jumping in line to buy them? What a weird and disappointing situation they've put themselves, their franchise, and their fans in. 

[Tibs]

13 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Does the article attribute the $425 mil in debt to any specific things?

It does not. Just says "A considerable portion of the team's debt has been added since the start of the 2020 season."

[PatPfund]

This is business, and that makes it complicated with most of the variables out of our view. Is this being driven by troubles in the Pohlad portfolio? Is the debt just on the MLB side or is it from other businesses? Or a combo platter?

It is baseball, and that makes the business part even trickier. This is a sport with an aging/waning fanbase and general interest. Ratings are down, TV revenue is down (big time for most teams), two MLB clubs will play in minor league parks this year (one because they burned their home bridges before they had anywhere to go; the other because their dump got trashed by a hurricane that also wrecked their chances of getting a better ballpark, so... back to a fixed up dump next year), and the league is in a major Haves/Have-nots era (where the Ishbias clearly thought the Chicago market size meant more future than the MLB-worst roster).

It is a potential sale, and that means ALL information coming out the different camps is probably self-serving (I never really believed in the 'several interested buyers' leaks, which were probably meant to keep the Ishbias' interest and price up; I doubt they believed it either).

It is a family business, and as someone once involved in a small one, that gets super complicated, super fast. While I'm sure Joe would like to stay (and his camp is probably leaking that), it is very possible the rest of the not-interested-in-baseball part of the family will drive the sale as possibly the only major cashable asset, and if the price is fine whether or not Joe stays won't be a factor.

[bean5302]

I get the feeling the Pohlads haven't come to terms with how badly they've damaged their reputations with the fans. Every few days I get an email from my former season ticket rep. I didn't see an "unsubscribe" link in the email so now I just delete them without opening them. If the Pohlads new plan is related to sellers remorse, they're going to find it a very tough situation.

Not sure why people think Baltimore is worth more? Baltimore has an poor market area competing directly (and recently losing) revenue to the Nationals who are just down the road. Baltimore is the 28th largest media market with MSP being #15 (75% larger) with Minneapolis having a 20% larger median household income with average home prices being 70% higher in MSP. Baltimore has a smaller market, lower population, lower income, and lower land value, and there are other major sports in the area. Plus, the Capitals and Wizards are a 45 minute drive away.

Anyway, I'm convinced the Pohlad family screwed this deal up with the Ishbia's and the robust market interest had the Ishbia's way out in front of the bidding. I had speculated Glen Taylor came into the bidding after losing the Wolves and shook things up, but that would seem to be a less likely scenario than the Pohlad family just tripping all over themselves with ridiculous demands and driving the Ishbia's off.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

25 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Agree on all 4 points. The Twins are worth LESS than Baltimore, not more.  This reminds of the potential seller in a declining home market who says, "what do you mean we can't list my house for what I want, my neighbor got that two years ago and my house's much nicer"! This is a tough market for mid-level and below baseball teams. No TV money or logical path to getting more outside of the coasts, A lack of consensus and will to change the sport's economic structure to help less fortunate teams. A commissioner who  does not appear to be well respected in business circles and has little to no power over the richer teams. I could go on and on. Lot's of red flags here.  Hopefully the Pohlads will find a rich guy who wants a sports team on his resume/trophy case who will buy and invest in the tea, I thought Ishbia might be that guy.  Hope there's another one, because buying the Twins as a business proposition is high risk/ low reward from a business standpoint. 

I have no problem with the Pohlad's asking high for the sale of the team.  All it takes is one.  That being said, when all the bids come in, how willing are the Pohlad's to move from that high number to get the team sold?

I do disagree with your comment about the Twins as a business proposition.  I challenge anyone to find one previous NFL/NBA/MLB owner that has sold their team in the last 30 years that has lost money on their franchise.   While year over year may not be great, capital gains rule the day.  The risk is not "will I make money?" it is "will I make money fast enough to meet my needs?".

[Vanimal46]

9 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I get the feeling the Pohlads haven't come to terms with how badly they've damaged their reputations with the fans.

The attendance issue isn’t going away as long as they continue owning the team. It’s going to be another summer with a half full Target Field unfortunately. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

12 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I get the feeling the Pohlads haven't come to terms with how badly they've damaged their reputations with the fans. Every few days I get an email from my former season ticket rep. I didn't see an "unsubscribe" link in the email so now I just delete them without opening them. If the Pohlads new plan is related to sellers remorse, they're going to find it a very tough situation.

Not sure why people think Baltimore is worth more? Baltimore has an poor market area competing directly (and recently losing) revenue to the Nationals who are just down the road. Baltimore is the 28th largest media market with MSP being #15 (75% larger) with Minneapolis having a 20% larger median household income with average home prices being 70% higher in MSP. Baltimore has a smaller market, lower population, lower income, and lower land value, and there are other major sports in the area. Plus, the Capitals and Wizards are a 45 minute drive away.

Anyway, I'm convinced the Pohlad family screwed this deal up with the Ishbia's and the robust market interest had the Ishbia's way out in front of the bidding. I had speculated Glen Taylor came into the bidding after losing the Wolves and shook things up, but that would seem to be a less likely scenario than the Pohlad family just tripping all over themselves with ridiculous demands and driving the Ishbia's off.

I agree with your comments about the Pohlads.  I believe they know they do not have a great relationship with the fans, and part of the reason they are selling is they do not believe they can repair it under their current method of doing business.  But I don't think they truly get the level of vitriol aimed at them, especially from the die-hards.

Regarding Baltimore, there is more than just the numbers you are referencing. Being a coastal team, they bring a lot more overall attention.  I would also bet their brand awareness is light-years ahead of the Twins.  Playing the Yankees and Red Sox all season doesn't hurt either. The valuation difference I am talking about is not in the billions, but more like $150-300 million.

IMO the Twins should be looked at as an underachieving asset.  For all the reasons you gave above, this team should be bringing in more income through all of the outlets (tickets, merch, tv, etc.).  The right new owner coming in could really push this team to a higher level..

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

That request alone shows how deeply unserious the Pohlads are about selling anytime soon. It’s a non starter for any interested buyers. 

It's the red herring in the story.  There is no chance its being discussed seriously in any active negotiation.  Joe may want that, but Joe has no standing to get it.  His people may have floated it but he's obviously the Pohlad that doesn't want to sell.  It ain't his deal.

It's not completely unprecedented with the Mark Cuban example, but Joe ain't Mark Cuban and as it turns out, Mark Cuban ain't still actually the point guy.  It's a non-story.

24 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The attendance issue isn’t going away as long as they continue owning the team. It’s going to be another summer with a half full Target Field unfortunately. 

So what does attendance do after a sale?  It's just shy of two million lately so does it go to 3? 2.5? Just on the sale of the team?  No chance.

The new Gleeman and the Geek just dropped so I'm preparing myself to sit through another hour of ranting about how poorly the team is ran and if by golly if they would just invest we might have something here.  (woof, worse than I thought.  The guy that can't open a savings account explaining debt servicing is rough)

Meanwhile, what these leaks confirm is that they already did all that.  Took on heavy debt, made the biggest splash in free agency in team history (twice), signed the biggest contract in team history, traded for and signed a top flight pitcher to the largest pitcher extension in team history, won a division title and a playoff series with a promising young core.

And guess what?  Attendance did jack diddly squat.  Why would they do it again?

I hear a lot of folks talking about voting with their wallets but the Pohlads have years of actual data about how the wallets react to what they do or don't do.  Even winning two World Series in four years doesn't generate a sustained bump in attendance.

It's true there is a ton of competition for summer nights activities in Minnesota, but not much evidence Minnesota fans are moved by much of anything on field or team related for going to the games.

I have a strong suspicious that they could have offseasons like 22 and 23 every year and attendance wouldn't meaningfully change.  Certainly not enough to cover the costs incurred to keep Twins Daily happy.

[DJL44]

Didn't the team move Dave St Peter to an advisory role to help sell the team?

[TheLeviathan]

4 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The high debt shouldn't be a big surprise if we think about it. The team didn't fire staff or cut back on minor league services during Covid-19, a time when there was no gate or concession revenue. They don't draw very well and there  seems to be an aversion by some to going into Downtown Minneapolis. The bottom fell out of their TV revenue last year. Put all that together with the fact that while the payroll hasn't increased and is small compared to the coastal teams, it is and has been the highest in the Division and you get a team that has probably been operating in the red for the last couple of years, at least.  Hence, the need to take on debt. It could be worse, the Twins could do what Pittsburg, St. Louis, Cleveland, Tampa, Miami, etc. have done and drastically cut payroll to match revenue. 

Baseball is a tough operating business to make money on without high attendance and significant TV revenue. It's particularly tough in a mid-market city where you can't charge $150 - $200 for a decent seat at the game while drawing 3.5 million fans or more, and you don't get even a $50 million for your TV rights, much less the $100 million plus certain teams get.  To make matters worse, there isn't real estate opportunity in the surrounding land like there was for the Wilfs when buying the Vikings, and there is no TV white night on the horizon to open up the money taps and make everything better. 

Look, I am no fan of the Pohlads and can't wait until they sell the team. I do think they are caught between a rock and a hard place. The value in owning a mid-market sports franchise (other than the NFL) is the value appreciation you realize when you sell. They missed the great selling window 4-5 years ago and are now selling a good but not great team with poor attendance and no TV revenue to speak of into a very uncertain market surrounded by a very uncertain economic situation overall. The most logical buyer is a guy like Steve Cohen of the Mets who is incredibly wealthy, doesn't care if he makes money on an operating level, loves baseball, and is driven by ego and competitiveness to win. There aren't very many of those guys out there and I don't think any of them live in Minnesota. I think a sale will only happen if one of those guys gets interested or the Pohlads drop the price. I'm afraid that neither of those things will happen any time soon.   

 

I'm going to push back on this a little bit - $450M simply can't be accounted for because of Covid.  That's roughly 3 entire seasons of major league payroll.  Minor leaguers, support staff, and even TV revenue drops don't account for that much money.  I'd argue not even close to that much.

It's far more likely that a major portion of those debts relate to Pohlad business activities outside of baseball.  Which means our hopes of a sale rest on someone else being willing to bail the Pohlads out of their terrible business ventures.  

If that's the bar, then yeah....I agree with you.  It ain't happening any time soon.

[TheLeviathan]

3 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

It's the red herring in the story.  There is no chance its being discussed seriously in any active negotiation.  Joe may want that, but Joe has no standing to get it.  His people may have floated it but he's obviously the Pohlad that doesn't want to sell.  It ain't his deal.

It's not completely unprecedented with the Mark Cuban example, but Joe ain't Mark Cuban and as it turns out, Mark Cuban ain't still actually the point guy.  It's a non-story.

So what does attendance do after a sale?  It's just shy of two million lately so does it go to 3? 2.5? Just on the sale of the team?  No chance.

The new Gleeman and the Geek just dropped so I'm preparing myself to sit through another hour of ranting about how poorly the team is ran and if by golly if they would just invest we might have something here.  (woof, worse than I thought.  The guy that can't open a savings account explaining debt servicing is rough)

Meanwhile, what these leaks confirm is that they already did all that.  Took on heavy debt, made the biggest splash in free agency in team history (twice), signed the biggest contract in team history, traded for and signed a top flight pitcher to the largest pitcher extension in team history, won a division title and a playoff series with a promising young core.

And guess what?  Attendance did jack diddly squat.  Why would they do it again?

I hear a lot of folks talking about voting with their wallets but the Pohlads have years of actual data about how the wallets react to what they do or don't do.  Even winning two World Series in four years doesn't generate a sustained bump in attendance.

It's true there is a ton of competition for summer nights activities in Minnesota, but not much evidence Minnesota fans are moved by much of anything on field or team related for going to the games.

I have a strong suspicious that they could have offseasons like 22 and 23 every year and attendance wouldn't meaningfully change.  Certainly not enough to cover the costs incurred to keep Twins Daily happy.

At some point are you willing to consider that you just haven't read this situation correctly?  

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Didn't the team move Dave St Peter to an advisory role to help sell the team?

Looks like he's managing that about as well as he managed the TV deals the last 25 years!

[Jocko87]

9 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

At some point are you willing to consider that you just haven't read this situation correctly?  

Certainly.  Join me, won’t you?

[TheLeviathan]

59 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Certainly.  Join me, won’t you?

Always have been.  Hence why I was skeptical and hoped the beat writers would do more digging so we know more about where this process is and why it's so profoundly weird.

That digging has only reinforced my reasons for skepticism and also revealed that your stance about Ishbia being just one buyer of many, or this pro-Pohlad post here, or any of the other comments made during the last round of this just don't hold up under scrutiny. 

Maybe the simple explanation is the right one: the sale process is being run about as well as the team.  Marketing certainly matches historically.  

[Jocko87]

47 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Always have been.  Hence why I was skeptical and hoped the beat writers would do more digging so we know more about where this process is and why it's so profoundly weird.

That digging has only reinforced my reasons for skepticism and also revealed that your stance about Ishbia being just one buyer of many, or this pro-Pohlad post here, or any of the other comments made during the last round of this just don't hold up under scrutiny. 

Maybe the simple explanation is the right one: the sale process is being run about as well as the team.  Marketing certainly matches historically.  

Maybe, but maybe defaulting to damn Pohlads isn’t always the right answer either.  

Agree completely that this new report brings nothing but new questions.  No offense to the beat writers but they simply aren’t in an area of their expertise.  So many basic questions unanswered and I’m not sure I can blame them.  This negotiation is a completely different world than most people are familiar with so the best most can do is theorize recklessly.  If you get the impression I’m certain about anything that’s probably on me typing too fast.  I do feel very strongly that the Joe stays in charge thing is BS, almost like a planted item to find a leaker. 

For me, it only raises more questions about the broker they hired to run this deal or maybe the relationship with them.  Allen and Co are not movers and shakers, they move the movers and shake the shakers.  They know how to make deals happen and operate at the highest levels.  This is child’s play for them.  It would be their job to vet Ishbia and I doubt very much Ishbia pulled a fast one on them.  It was a very obvious conflict that they would not miss.  Unless we got the new guy.

As I suggested in an earlier post in the thread, it’s possible the Pohlads are just ignoring every thing they are told by Allen and Co.  Unlikely, but possible.  After all, they hired them to advise them through this process.  Anything one would want to default blame the Pohlads for, goes through them first. 

More likely? The sources suck.  We know nothing, even with this report.  The people Dan Hayes is talking to aren’t named Pohlad, I’d be willing to bet.  In a situation like this, if you aren’t in a group of about 4 people, you aren’t a good source. The farther you get from that group the worse the information.  Somebody that heard something that might have been talked about just isn’t a good enough source but I’m not sure baseball reporters are business savvy enough to know that.  It would also explain a bit of my concern with Allen and Co, most things they do don’t have podcasts and Twins Daily types playing Inspector Gadget.

Although, I guess it is possible they are discussing the latest developments in a staff meeting regularly.  That’s almost too stupid to consider but just maybe.  Anything important is firmly behind closed doors.  The Twins are notoriously quiet and Allen is fiduciaries quiet.  Who are these sources?

Most likely, we know nothing and nothing is truly available to be known.  

[TheLeviathan]

13 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Maybe, but maybe defaulting to damn Pohlads isn’t always the right answer either.  

Agree completely that this new report brings nothing but new questions.  No offense to the beat writers but they simply aren’t in an area of their expertise.  So many basic questions unanswered and I’m not sure I can blame them.  This negotiation is a completely different world than most people are familiar with so the best most can do is theorize recklessly.  If you get the impression I’m certain about anything that’s probably on me typing too fast.  I do feel very strongly that the Joe stays in charge thing is BS, almost like a planted item to find a leaker. 

For me, it only raises more questions about the broker they hired to run this deal or maybe the relationship with them.  Allen and Co are not movers and shakers, they move the movers and shake the shakers.  They know how to make deals happen and operate at the highest levels.  This is child’s play for them.  It would be their job to vet Ishbia and I doubt very much Ishbia pulled a fast one on them.  It was a very obvious conflict that they would not miss.  Unless we got the new guy.

As I suggested in an earlier post in the thread, it’s possible the Pohlads are just ignoring every thing they are told by Allen and Co.  Unlikely, but possible.  After all, they hired them to advise them through this process.  Anything one would want to default blame the Pohlads for, goes through them first. 

More likely? The sources suck.  We know nothing, even with this report.  The people Dan Hayes is talking to aren’t named Pohlad, I’d be willing to bet.  In a situation like this, if you aren’t in a group of about 4 people, you aren’t a good source. The farther you get from that group the worse the information.  Somebody that heard something that might have been talked about just isn’t a good enough source but I’m not sure baseball reporters are business savvy enough to know that.  It would also explain a bit of my concern with Allen and Co, most things they do don’t have podcasts and Twins Daily types playing Inspector Gadget.

Although, I guess it is possible they are discussing the latest developments in a staff meeting regularly.  That’s almost too stupid to consider but just maybe.  Anything important is firmly behind closed doors.  The Twins are notoriously quiet and Allen is fiduciaries quiet.  Who are these sources?

Most likely, we know nothing and nothing is truly available to be known.  

If the brokerage is dumb or incompetent....guess who hired them?

If the media leaks are wrong....guess who is employing them?

It's one thing to believe all of those things are true rather than the Pohlads are running this like the gong show we've seen from their marketing, TV deals, and other "right sized" public communications....but there is yet another layer that make this absurdly unlikely: Mass media incompetence/malfeasance?  Your position also requires tht every media person was hearing that the deal was going to be done by the home opener and just went along with bad sources.  This would entail that every reporter who has written a story on this (not just Dan Hayes) is willing to impugn their credibility, defy reporting norms, and listen to people they know are lying or ignorant.  That's quite a credibility attack to keep going with an opinion that keeps getting less correct the more information we get.

But sure, I bet it's all of that and not that the Pohlads continue to run their baseball business like a bunch of dinks.

[FargoFanMan]

20 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Wow!  Craziness.   425 million in debt, the highest in baseball.  I'm actually speechless.  Who would want to buy this team?

It’s not the highest in baseball. Also, it was not known if that was from just the twins. Not good but it’s not as bad as said. Most teams carry debt. A lot of teams are in debt and lose money. Debt is used as a financial instrument. It’s not like debt to a normal person. Lots of businesses are “in debt” but when the got that debt at near zero rates it’s cheaper than most other types of capital. Very click Baitey statement. Honest reporting. Do better

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

Mass media incompetence/malfeasance?  Your position also requires tht every media person was hearing that the deal was going to be done by the home opener and just went along with bad sources.

Your term, not mine and I said nothing to indicate as such.

My position requires accepting the knowledge that almost nobody outside a select few know anything that's accurate. It's just not a thing for the source to be close enough to the decision maker without being a decision maker. And decision makers don't talk. Falvey and St Peter are not good sources on this deal, please trust me on that.

It would also explain every other odd thing we've heard.