Mets Need a Catcher

[jorgenswest]

The Mets lost their primary catcher Alvarez for up to 2 months. They have one other catcher on the 40 in Luis Torrens.

I don’t think the contract will have them shying away from Christian Vazquez. The return wouldn’t be much more than salary relief which might not be put back into the roster.

Should the Twins trust Camargo or Cartaya enough to offer Vazquez to the Mets?

[Linus]

At this point I would say no because the salary savings won’t be reinvested.  6 weeks ago? Yes in a minute.

[RpR]

39 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

The Mets lost their primary catcher Alvarez for up to 2 months. They have one other catcher on the 40 in Luis Torrens.

I don’t think the contract will have them shying away from Christian Vazquez. The return wouldn’t be much more than salary relief which might not be put back into the roster.

Should the Twins trust Camargo or Cartaya enough to offer Vazquez to the Mets?

NO!

That would be an asinine move.

[Doctor Gast]

IMO Camargo & Cartaya are not MLB ready yet. We need someone who is, not because of dumping Vazquez's salary (we have debated this, enough), But because we have been very fortunate that we've been healthy at catcher, it's not something that we can plan on. If Jeffers or Vazquez get injured for any amount of time, we have no one & we need someone that can take up the slack when Jeffers starts to wane in the 2nd half.

I'll take this time to advocate to trade for Cesar Salazar, (HOU 3rd catcher & my sleeper catching candidate). He's behind Diaz & Caratini & Janek is probably their future catcher. Salazar is a good hitter & is a disciple of Martin Maldonado, he understands the defensive side very well. IMO Salazar is ready to take that next step of stepping in at catcher for an extended amount of time. We need Salazar not only for this season, but also next, when Vazquez is gone & the year after if it's not feasible to extend Jeffers (having a MLB-ready catcher will greatly help in negotiations). Salazar is very underrated & could be traded very cheaply. According to BTV we could trade Paddack & Camargo for Salazar & 2 AAA SPs as a base.

[jorgenswest]

13 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

IMO Camargo & Cartaya are not MLB ready yet. We need someone who is, not because of dumping Vazquez's salary (we have debated this, enough), But because we have been very fortunate that we've been healthy at catcher, it's not something that we can plan on. If Jeffers or Vazquez get injured for any amount of time, we have no one & we need someone that can take up the slack when Jeffers starts to wane in the 2nd half.

I'll take this time to advocate to trade for Cesar Salazar, (HOU 3rd catcher & my sleeper catching candidate). He's behind Diaz & Caratini & Janek is probably their future catcher. Salazar is a good hitter & is a disciple of Martin Maldonado, he understands the defensive side very well. IMO Salazar is ready to take that next step of stepping in at catcher for an extended amount of time. We need Salazar not only for this season, but also next, when Vazquez is gone & the year after if it's not feasible to extend Jeffers (having a MLB-ready catcher will greatly help in negotiations). Salazar is very underrated & could be traded very cheaply. According to BTV we could trade Paddack & Camargo for Salazar & 2 AAA SPs as a base.

I don’t believe the Astros have a fourth catcher. Janek is a few years away. It would be really foolish on their part to trade their third catcher without significant return. There is no a chance I would do that deal if I were the Astros. Why would they make their catching situation worse (you open with Camargo is not ready) and take on the Paddack money? If Salazar is available it sounds like the Mets should be calling the Astros instead of the Twins. 

… but this only distracts from the topic. A different thread about longer term options at catcher would be a better fit. I appreciate your thoughts that Cartaya and Camargo are not MLB ready yet.

So far no one is ready to hand the job to Cartaya or Camargo and let Vazquez go.

[Mike Sixel]

Vazquez is not my favorite twin, but no chance I'm dealing him at this point without a crazy overpay in return. The Twins don't have a replacement, let alone two. 

[Doctor Gast]

6 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I don’t believe the Astros have a fourth catcher. Janek is a few years away. It would be really foolish on their part to trade their third catcher without significant return. There is no a chance I would do that deal if I were the Astros. Why would they make their catching situation worse (you open with Camargo is not ready) and take on the Paddack money? If Salazar is available it sounds like the Mets should be calling the Astros instead of the Twins. 

… but this only distracts from the topic. A different thread about longer term options at catcher would be a better fit. I appreciate your thoughts that Cartaya and Camargo are not MLB ready yet.

So far no one is ready to hand the job to Cartaya or Camargo and let Vazquez go.

I believe the main idea of this thread is evaluating our present catching situation & if Cartaya & Camargo are able to take over backup catching duties w/o Vazquez. My answer & the main consensus is no & I added that I doubt the present catching would be able to do so next year, which we also have to look at & deal with now. I gave my suggestion. 

You think it isn't alright for the Astros to trade Salazar to the Twins but you think it's alright for them to trade him to the Mets? Mets don't need a 3rd catcher to be groomed as a backup; they need an established veteran starting catcher, Whereas, the Twins do. Astros have Hummel as their 4th catcher & I also offered Camargo. IMO HOU could use SPing, that's why I also offered Paddack. IMO switching 3rd catchers is no big deal but could really help the Twins in the future. 

 

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

I believe the main idea of this thread is evaluating our present catching situation & if Cartaya & Camargo are able to take over backup catching duties w/o Vazquez. My answer & the main consensus is no & I added that I doubt the present catching would be able to do so next year, which we also have to look at & deal with now. I gave my suggestion. 

You think it isn't alright for the Astros to trade Salazar to the Twins but you think it's alright for them to trade him to the Mets? Mets don't need a 3rd catcher to be groomed as a backup; they need an established veteran starting catcher, Whereas, the Twins do. Astros have Hummel as their 4th catcher & I also offered Camargo. IMO HOU could use SPing, that's why I also offered Paddack. IMO switching 3rd catchers is no big deal but could really help the Twins in the future. 

 

As author of the thread my main idea was to see if anyone was willing to go with Camargo and Cartaya to free up some money by moving Vazquez. 

So far the answer is no.

A catcher for the future thread would likely have more interest but it wasn’t my intent.

So…

Anyone in support of Camargo getting his opportunity as a number 2 catcher? Is his defense good enough to fill that role?

[Riverbrian]

If the Mets will take him in a deal. His numbers will not be difficult to replicate. However... I remain concerned because the Twins haven't been letting anybody try replicate or even surpass those numbers.  

All Minnesota Twins Eggs are currently in the Jeffers and Vazquez basket.

The current price for Eggs is about 6 bucks a dozen.

At those prices... It would sure be nice to have some chickens around laying eggs for breakfast.      

[RpR]

 

As author of the thread my main idea was to see if anyone was willing to go with Camargo and Cartaya to free up some money by moving Vazquez. 

So far the answer is no.

A catcher for the future thread would likely have more interest but it wasn’t my intent.

So…

Anyone in support of Camargo getting his opportunity as a number 2 catcher? Is his defense good enough to fill that role?

NO - H&ll NO!

[jorgenswest]

37 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

If the Mets will take him in a deal. His numbers will not be difficult to replicate. However... I remained concerned because the Twins haven't been letting anybody try replicate or even surpass those numbers

There is a fair chance we will get to the end of April and Vazquez will be hitting as he has the previous two seasons while either Camargo or Cartaya are hitting well in AAA. At that point there will be lots of noise for a change but that will be based on hindsight.

I am wondering if there is anyone with the foresight to say let’s go with the young catchers. The argument might be at least one of the two will be a passable replacement for Vazquez and we will have better insight into the Twins catching needs for 2026. I think I would move Vazquez if the Mets will take on his contract and go with Camargo. That would also give Cartaya 4 games a week in AAA to give him a chance to approach that upside he once showed.

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

There is a fair chance we will get to the end of April and Vazquez will be hitting as he has the previous two seasons while either Camargo or Cartaya are hitting well in AAA. At that point there will be lots of noise for a change but that will be based on hindsight.

I am wondering if there is anyone with the foresight to say let’s go with the young catchers. The argument might be at least one of the two will be a passable replacement for Vazquez and we will have better insight into the Twins catching needs for 2026. I think I would move Vazquez if the Mets will take on his contract and go with Camargo. That would also give Cartaya 4 games a week in AAA to give him a chance to approach that upside he once showed.

I said it last year and I'm still saying it today. Not utilizing Jair Camargo at all last year when he was for whatever reason placed on the 26 man roster was a big deal.

Some may say that it was just 20 games or so... what's the big deal?  Some may say that Camargo wasn't ready so what's the big deal. 

The big deal is that the front office has placed themselves in a situation where a catcher with a .575 OPS is not replicable. Camargo not ready? OK... well... he's still sitting there on the 40 man roster.

A catcher must rise this year from the system. If Camargo or Cartaya are not ready by the end of the year... the off-season will see the front office spending more limited resources trying to acquire the replacement for Vazquez and that's a big deal. 

A catcher must rise this year. I would be OK... forcing the issue and living with the consequences. The Consequences are: Cartaya or Camargo do worse than a .575 OPS.  

The Twins must sleep in the bed they made. Keeping Vazquez like he is not replaceable is sleeping in the bed they made. Trading him and forcing a young catcher into playing time ready or not is also sleeping in the bed they made. 

 

 

 

[jorgenswest]

We can’t change the past.

Moving forward, do you trade Vazquez this spring if there is an opportunity?

[chpettit19]

49 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

There is a fair chance we will get to the end of April and Vazquez will be hitting as he has the previous two seasons while either Camargo or Cartaya are hitting well in AAA. At that point there will be lots of noise for a change but that will be based on hindsight.

I am wondering if there is anyone with the foresight to say let’s go with the young catchers. The argument might be at least one of the two will be a passable replacement for Vazquez and we will have better insight into the Twins catching needs for 2026. I think I would move Vazquez if the Mets will take on his contract and go with Camargo. That would also give Cartaya 4 games a week in AAA to give him a chance to approach that upside he once showed.

I think it all comes down to their defense. If either of them are deemed ready with the glove then I have no problem moving Vazquez, although I'm not a fan of it being for essentially nothing since they wouldn't spend the money cleared and they wouldn't get anything real in return.

At this point I think you just ride with him to start the year since you're trying to win the division and make the playoffs. That doesn't help for next year if both Vazquez and Jeffers stay healthy, but it's about this season now and I don't see many ways that trading Vazquez helps with the 2025 team anymore. The last 3 months? Yes. Now? No.

And to put a bow on the Cesar Salazar talk from before, he turns 29 in 5 days. He's not the catcher of the future.

[USAFChief]

No. 

All trading Vazquez to the Mets will accomplish is changing the title of the thread to "The Twins Need A Catcher."

[Riverbrian]

9 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

We can’t change the past.

Moving forward, do you trade Vazquez this spring if there is an opportunity?

Staying in the lines of these perimeters. 

No

They must stay with Vazquez for two reasons. 

A. You will get very little for him. Other than a little bit of money that could... in theory... be applied at the trade deadline, which is nice in consideration of the past two deadlines but may not be necessary. 

B. They've done nothing to prepare for his possible departure.  

  

[Richie the Rally Goat]

8 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

As author of the thread my main idea was to see if anyone was willing to go with Camargo and Cartaya to free up some money by moving Vazquez. 

So far the answer is no.

A catcher for the future thread would likely have more interest but it wasn’t my intent.

So…

Anyone in support of Camargo getting his opportunity as a number 2 catcher? Is his defense good enough to fill that role?

Are Camargo and Jeffers durable enough to combine for 162 games behind the dish? Because I do not want to see Cartaya get extended time in the MLB in 2025

[Richie the Rally Goat]

6 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Staying in the lines of these perimeters. 

No

They must stay with Vazquez for two reasons. 

A. You will get very little for him. Other than a little bit of money that could... in theory... be applied at the trade deadline, which is nice in consideration of the past two deadlines but may not be necessary. 

B. They've done nothing to prepare for his possible departure.  

  

Camargo has to get some leash in the bigs this year to prep for number 2, right?

[RpR]

46 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Camargo has to get some leash in the bigs this year to prep for number 2, right?

Camargo has to show he is good enough for the bigs, period.

Twins brought in qualified veterans for 1st base; they will probably do the same as a 2nd catcher.

[USAFChief]

48 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Camargo has to get some leash in the bigs this year to prep for number 2, right?

Phrasing. 

[Mike Sixel]

7 hours ago, USAFChief said:

No. 

All trading Vazquez to the Mets will accomplish is changing the title of the thread to "The Twins Need A Catcher."

Truth

[nicksaviking]

10 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

As author of the thread my main idea was to see if anyone was willing to go with Camargo and Cartaya to free up some money by moving Vazquez. 

So far the answer is no.

A catcher for the future thread would likely have more interest but it wasn’t my intent.

So…

Anyone in support of Camargo getting his opportunity as a number 2 catcher? Is his defense good enough to fill that role?

Put me down for the lone 'Yay' then.

I'm not even saying it's a good decision; heck, I'd venture to say it doesn't pay off in the slightest, but I'd love to put Baldelli in a position where he gets his comfort blankets taken away from him. His preference for players he likes over offensive ceiling has really gotten under my skin.

But really, even if it doesn't pay off, we're talking about a Drew Butera level player here. Even if you like his glove, you're not losing THAT much. I miss the days when the backup catcher was more novelty than necessity.

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Camargo has to get some leash in the bigs this year to prep for number 2, right?

Chances are that injury will provide opportunity. He still has the 40 man roster spot. 

Regardless... I'm still preparing myself for Jose Trevino in free agency. 

[DJL44]

18 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I said it last year and I'm still saying it today. Not utilizing Jair Camargo at all last year when he was for whatever reason placed on the 26 man roster was a big deal.

Some may say that it was just 20 games or so... what's the big deal? 

I would say that. At max, Camargo gets 10 MLB games last season. If 10 games are the difference between "ready" and "not ready" then they can get him ready in a week this season.

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I would say that. At max, Camargo gets 10 MLB games last season. If 10 games are the difference between "ready" and "not ready" then they can get him ready in a week this season.

Do you think that I believe 10 games or 20 games is the difference in ready? 

Give that some thought before you answer. 

Do you think that I believe 10 games or 20 games is the difference in ready? 

[DJL44]

I would say yes, if it also spurs the Twins to make a deal for a good catching prospect. The Twins could upgrade the position and give the Mets a stopgap for this season.

[DJL44]

5 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Do you think that I believe 10 games or 20 games is the difference in ready? 

If you don't, then what's your point?

Personally, I don't think 100 games last season is likely to make Jair Camargo a major league caliber catcher. He's a AAA stopgap and that's probably his ceiling.

[Twodogs]

21 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

As author of the thread my main idea was to see if anyone was willing to go with Camargo and Cartaya to free up some money by moving Vazquez. 

So far the answer is no.

A catcher for the future thread would likely have more interest but it wasn’t my intent.

So…

Anyone in support of Camargo getting his opportunity as a number 2 catcher? Is his defense good enough to fill that role?

I think the idea to free up money is a good one, but the Twins would likely not do anything with it.  You know you have a real good defensive catcher in Vazquez, you don't really know what you have in the two young guys.  So at this point I'd keep Vazquez for sure.  If the Twins were going to use the savings to make the team better I'd have a different opinion for sure.  But those of us hanging around in Twins land kinda already know that they wouldn't do anything with that money.

[Parfigliano]

20 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I said it last year and I'm still saying it today. Not utilizing Jair Camargo at all last year when he was for whatever reason placed on the 26 man roster was a big deal.

Some may say that it was just 20 games or so... what's the big deal?  Some may say that Camargo wasn't ready so what's the big deal. 

The big deal is that the front office has placed themselves in a situation where a catcher with a .575 OPS is not replicable. Camargo not ready? OK... well... he's still sitting there on the 40 man roster.

A catcher must rise this year from the system. If Camargo or Cartaya are not ready by the end of the year... the off-season will see the front office spending more limited resources trying to acquire the replacement for Vazquez and that's a big deal. 

A catcher must rise this year. I would be OK... forcing the issue and living with the consequences. The Consequences are: Cartaya or Camargo do worse than a .575 OPS.  

The Twins must sleep in the bed they made. Keeping Vazquez like he is not replaceable is sleeping in the bed they made. Trading him and forcing a young catcher into playing time ready or not is also sleeping in the bed they made. 

 

 

 

Crappy bed 

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If you don't, then what's your point?

Personally, I don't think 100 games last season is likely to make Jair Camargo a major league caliber catcher. He's a AAA stopgap and that's probably his ceiling.

First off... If you think that I think that 20 games is going to get someone ready... You think I'm an idiot so I hope you understand that level of insult that goes with that. I'd rather not be insulted that way.  

Every career has a beginning and every career has an ending. Players transition in and they transition out. My criticism isn't based on an opinion of Jair Camargo because I don't have one. My criticism is going to be how the front office is managing these transitions that happen all the time across major league baseball.   

I get that you don't think very highly of Camargo. I don't have an opinion on him. I don't want to get into a debate about Jair Camargo because I don't know if his career is beginning or ending.

I do know that he was one of three catchers on the 40 man roster and this makes him the next guy up. Placement on the 40 man roster is done to protect players from other teams grabbing them so a 40 man roster spot does seem to indicate that other teams may grab him. I do know that Christian Vazquez had an OPS of .526 when Camargo was added to the 26 man roster for some strange reason on July 12 and  yet Camargo received no playing time.     

Injuries happen all the time, especially at the catcher position so assuming Camargo is indeed the next guy up when an injury happens. His beginning was likely to begin at a moment's notice. 

20 games isn't going to make one ready... I'm not an idiot. Getting some work in even if it's just 25 AB's is preparation for the next 25 AB's and the next 25 AB's after that. It's exposure for that moment when the next man up is needed on the 26 man roster because Ryan Jeffers broke a bone in his catching hand in September. If Camargo goes 0 for 25 in those July AB's and every thing falls apart... the front office can go get a catcher that won't do that at the trade deadline because they just might need it because the next guy up is going to be a problem. If Camargo produces a .526 OPS over those 25 AB's. There is no drop off in offensive production.    

Now if JT Realmuto and Adley Rutschman were our catching tandem. It would probably be a significant drop off to rest Adley to get your number 3 some exposure in preparation for anything that is about to come. Let's be very clear... .526 OPS does not produce a significant drop off no matter what Jair does over those 25 AB's. Vazquez simply shouldn't be allowed to hold anyone back.  

Now we have a thread started that is asking the question would you trade Vazquez to the Mets and go with the youth in house. With as much concern that I have over Christian Vazquez's offensive performance the past two years and I have a lot of concern about that. I'm saying no.

The reason I'm saying no is because the Twins have done absolutely nothing to prepare for his replacement. I'm saying that I would have been preparing his replacement already.