We're Not Talking Enough About Second Base for the 2025 Minnesota Twins

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

Does anybody in the infield have a dedicated everyday position or is it going to be musical chairs all year?

Yes, it drove me nuts watching Correa being forced to play right tackle while Santana took the point guard slot.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

(some may get the Golden Earring connection)

Help!  We're entering the Second Base Zone.

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I listened to that interview before, yes he was open but asked about Lewis he never said "Yes he's our 2Bman or no he isn't". He was not sure. My impression about Lewis is he likes to be the best he can be. If he's the 2Bman he wants some instruction & someone working with him besides taking some GBs on the left-side. Baldelli has even admitted that Lewis would like know as quick as possible. I don't get why he was so determined during the season & not be now when it's more beneficial to Lewis. Baldelli might have a good reason to be this way beyond what's on the surface. I just don't get it & why so many people are so bent out of shape because of my statement.

He said "as of right now, I think he's more likely than not to play third base for us. But is there a chance he plays some second base? I think there's a chance." After talking about the makeup of the rest of the roster being uncertain and playing a role in where he plays. He's not sure because he doesn't know what the roster will look like.

Royce can get all the instruction and work he wants at 2B. It's the offseason, he has time to work at however many positions he wants. He's got nothing but time to work at both spots. If he can't work at both 3B and 2B during the offseason there's much bigger problems we need to worry about with him. Did you read the article I linked? He's good with things now. He started working at 2B in the offseason on his own. He's happy to play anywhere on the dirt. He has been sending videos of his workouts to the Twins.

Rocco was determined during the season because during the season they had Miranda to play 3B and nobody to play 2B. The situation was different. The makeup of the team was different. And the need was immediate. The goal is always to get your best players on the field, Royce at 2B made the pieces fit best at that time. Now the situation may be different. He's being as committal as he can be. If the roster changes who plays where can change.

If the Twins trade for Nolan Arenado tomorrow Royce Lewis is no longer playing 3B for the MN Twins this season. If they sign Alex Bregman he's no longer playing 3B for the MN Twins this season. If they sign Pete Alonso Royce is moving to 2B so Miranda can play 3B because that gives them their best players on the field. Those are obviously very unlikely situations and it's why Rocco said "as of right now, I think he's more likely than not to play third base for us." But if the roster changes Royce's role can change. Just like Mookie Betts role changes. Or like Tatis Jr's role changed. Or Oneil Cruz's role changed. Or Aaron Judge's role changes. Or Rafael Devers role may change. Or Gunnar Henderson's role changed. This is normal operating procedure for any MLB team, not some crazy failure of Rocco and the Twins. If the Yankees can bounce Aaron Judge back and forth to different outfield spots and the Dodgers can ask Mookie to play both outfield and infield as needed, I think it's ok if the Twins ask Royce Lewis to work at more than 1 infield spot during the offseason.

[PatPfund]

It is the offseason, so you can raise 'what if' questions about any position on the field, and most require a lot fewer 'what ifs' than 2B. Sort of "What if Lee, Julien, Castro, Martin, Helman, Keaschall don't work out, 'cause then we have a problem?" As opposed to "What if Buxton gets hurt?" or "What if Correa gets hurt?" or "What if Lopez gets hurt?" or "What if Lewis gets hurt regardless of where he plays in the field?" That last one is my biggest actual worry about 2B, because I think moving Lewis - a bat the Twins MUST have healthy and in the lineup to succeed this year, and somebody who has already had two major knee injuries -  to 2B is the most foolish idea since moving Sano to the OF. 2B is a position that features a LOT of playing with your back to baserunners, and physical pivots; it features the shortest physical height average in sports (because you have to be nimble to survive), and it regularly devours its players with gruesome knee injuries (ask Utley or Pedroia about that). Lewis would be one of the largest 2B in MLB this season, and an injury waiting to happen. No. Please.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

Hey!  Maybe Tommy Herr is still available!

Too soon?

My opinion is probably in the minority, but given the number of options we have out there — any of whom could potentially do the job well (but certainly not all of them) — it seems likely that ONE of them will step out from the pack and do a good job with the bat and/or glove.  I definitely don’t call it a logjam, but we do have potentially capable bodies to put out there.  We honestly don’t have the same kinds of options at catcher, which in case of injury, worries me much more.  

 

[RpR]

47 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

He said "as of right now, I think he's more likely than not to play third base for us. But is there a chance he plays some second base? I think there's a chance." After talking about the makeup of the rest of the roster being uncertain and playing a role in where he plays. He's not sure because he doesn't know what the roster will look like.

Royce can get all the instruction and work he wants at 2B. It's the offseason, he has time to work at however many positions he wants. He's got nothing but time to work at both spots. If he can't work at both 3B and 2B during the offseason there's much bigger problems we need to worry about with him. Did you read the article I linked? He's good with things now. He started working at 2B in the offseason on his own. He's happy to play anywhere on the dirt. He has been sending videos of his workouts to the Twins.

 

Lewis has shown , so far that he is not GOOD at any thing.

He is as sporadic as a newbie rookie.

Lee has shown he is GOOD at 3rd base, to not put him there is stupid.

All this crystal ball rhetoric here about Lewis can do this, Lewis can do that , is wishful thinking which also seems to be a curse on rookie this site sends out to their chosen rookies.

Lee & Lewis

 

 

[Guest]

Eeles has more plate discipline than any of this group.  I'm getting some popcorn although the prudent thing is to stick Lee at 2B until he proves he can't handle it.  And I don't understand why Julien and 1B show up in the same sentence because he'd be even farther below league average at 1B than 2B.  

[chpettit19]

31 minutes ago, RpR said:

Lewis has shown , so far that he is not GOOD at any thing.

He is as sporadic as a newbie rookie.

Lee has shown he is GOOD at 3rd base, to not put him there is stupid.

All this crystal ball rhetoric here about Lewis can do this, Lewis can do that , is wishful thinking which also seems to be a curse on rookie this site sends out to their chosen rookies.

Lee & Lewis

 

 

I legitimately don't understand why you keep sending me defensive stats I've told you I don't care about because I know how they're compiled and they aren't good indicators of ability. I worked at SIS. I've literally helped compile the data for these stats. There are a lot of flaws in the data collection process and quoting these stats as proof of anything doesn't impress me. I've told you this many times yet here we are again. I get it. You don't like rookies. Trust below average veterans before you trust a rookie. Message has been received.

And, for the record, that's no shot at SIS or the people working there. They're all wonderful, hardworking people. It's just that the tracking of these kinds of things is super hard without the type of technology that statcast type things have. They're relying on human beings to do things because it's their only option and that leads to a lot of problems with this kind of data. Its why defensive metrics are doubted so much.

[saviking]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Yes, it drove me nuts watching Correa being forced to play right tackle while Santana took the point guard slot.

Why don't we just rotate a new player to second base every 3 innings. Lord knows we have enough  ;)

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Yes, it drove me nuts watching Correa being forced to play right tackle while Santana took the point guard slot.

You thought that was bad? What about the time they had Correa anchoring the 4x100 relay team? 

[IndianaTwin]

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Zoll, Falvey, and Rocco have all given indications that they're still hunting hard on the trade market. There's reports out today from Dan Hayes about a trade with the Padres that'd include Vazquez (and a bunch of money) shipping out with Dylan Cease a possibility coming back this way. Other pieces included, I'd assume. They say nothing is imminent at all, but there's been continued talks and both sides plan to keep talking. Obviously nothing is for sure that they make any more moves, but it does sound like they're looking. For what that's worth.

Lewis has the stronger arm so him at 3B and Lee at 2B would make sense to me. Lee has a lot of proving to do still, though. Royce sounds like he's pretty comfortable in all the spots now after putting in more work over the offseason. Hopefully that's the case and they're able to fit the pieces in as best they can with everyone being comfortable in their spots.

So you're saying there's conversation about sending Vazquez and money (let's say $3M) to the Padres and taking on Cease's $13.75M? 

That would mean taking on $6.75M in extra salary and we ALL know (because it's been beaten to death on TD all winter) that the FO said last September that they aren't going to reduce salary any further, which of course means that it will be the same as last year's $130ishM, Wouldn't that also mean that a bunch of us on TD were working from a lack of full information in making our definitive statements about what the team MUST do and who they have to trade to get down to that point? 

 

(Was I clear enough on the sarcasm, or do I need to add the /s symbol?)  

[ashbury]

11 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

You thought that was bad? What about the time they had Correa anchoring the 4x100 relay team? 

The Slower Than Expletive Relay™, to be precise.

[IndianaTwin]

Just now, ashbury said:

The Slower Than Expletive Relay™, to be precise.

I don't recall -- was Vazquez leading off the relay? 

[KBJ1]

At least they have options for 2B.

What the Twins don't have is #5 SP

RH power outfielder

1B - besides Miranda

Speed

LH pitching

A healthy bullpen that actually performs as hoped.

2B & catcheir, inspite of the legitimate issues raised, are the least of their concerns. 

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Zoll, Falvey, and Rocco have all given indications that they're still hunting hard on the trade market. There's reports out today from Dan Hayes about a trade with the Padres that'd include Vazquez (and a bunch of money) shipping out with Dylan Cease a possibility coming back this way. Other pieces included, I'd assume. They say nothing is imminent at all, but there's been continued talks and both sides plan to keep talking. Obviously nothing is for sure that they make any more moves, but it does sound like they're looking. For what that's worth.

Lewis has the stronger arm so him at 3B and Lee at 2B would make sense to me. Lee has a lot of proving to do still, though. Royce sounds like he's pretty comfortable in all the spots now after putting in more work over the offseason. Hopefully that's the case and they're able to fit the pieces in as best they can with everyone being comfortable in their spots.

I don't know if I agree that Lewis has the stronger arm and I certainly don't think he has the "better" arm for third base. His throwing has been the main problem with his defense at third. 

[jmlease1]

6 hours ago, William K Johnson said:

I still like Casto at second, Lewis in left field and Lee at third.

Castro's value increases when you can move him around the field, and it's particularly valuable when he can pinch hit or pinch run for most anyone in the lineup without needing to make another move defensively. He also clearly wore down last season and might be better suited to the super utility role. Slotting him as the every day 2B reduces their options from the jump. 

I'm also waiting for all the people who were insisting that the Twins let Jax try starting because he'd like to do it to immediately jump in and defend Lewis not wanting to go to the OF...

[terrydactyls]

5 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Nice post - great clarification - logical!!

Are posts like this (nice - great clarification - logical) allowed on TD?  😇😇

Edited January 23, 2025 by terrydactyls
Bad wording by me.

[bigdave]

If they pull off a trade for Paddack or Vasquez, they could throw in Julien as a sweetener. Two years ago he was hotter than hot and they could use that as a selling point.

[ashbury]

12 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Are posts like this (nice - great clarification - logical) allowed on TD?  😇😇

Yes.  

Luckily for you and me, sarcasm is also still allowed.

[terrydactyls]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Yes.  

Luckily for you and me, sarcasm is also still allowed.

Do you think that the two angelic smiley faces are sufficient for typical TD readers to catch on that I was being sarcastic?

[IndianaTwin]

15 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Do you think that the two angelic smiley faces are sufficient for typical TD readers to catch on that I was being sarcastic?

No. 😏😏😏

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I don't know if I agree that Lewis has the stronger arm and I certainly don't think he has the "better" arm for third base. His throwing has been the main problem with his defense at third. 

Oh, his throwing accuracy is atrocious. I don't know how he can look so uncomfortable throwing a ball while being such a great athlete.

But on 130 throws last year he topped out at 85.8 MPH with an 84.4 average. This year in 125 throws he maxed out at 85.5 with an average of 83.7. From 3B specifically it was 129 and 114 throws with an average velo of 84.4 and 84.0 over the 2 years. Brooks Lee had 153 throws this season with a max of 83.1 and average of 81.5. Not enough throws (27) from 3B to get an average velo there from baseball savant, but I think it's safe to say it wouldn't have been 84ish when he maxed out at 83.1.

Not a massive difference, but Lewis has the stronger arm according to the data we have available. And I don't know if throwing from 2B would help, hurt, or be neutral on his throwing struggles. Different arm angles used so could go any which way. I really hope he's ironed out his motion over the offseason, though.

[mnfireman]

8 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

I still like Julien's bat, and I'm a little baffled why for some people his 2024 season (which was poor) means that we should ignore everything about his 2023 season. (BTW, when sent back down to AAA for a re-set, he did fine started looking like 2023 Julien again) My preference is for him to move to 1B, but he's still a decent option to fill in at 2B if Lewis gets hurt.

 

A stat line of .188/.250/.259 (.509 OPS) 28/6 K/BB 1 HR 4 RBI from Aug 16 to the end of the season begs to differ... 

[David Maro]

First off the manager seems to like not having a true 2nd or 3rd baseman. It gives him the opportunity to platoon players at those positions. Now he also has the same situation at 1st base. As far as Lewis goes he hasn't looked good at 3rd base and looked uncomfortable at 2nd base for the short time he played there. He may be a good trade chip if he is going to tell the organization where he is going to play. He could be a everyday LF'er that the team hasn't had since Rosario.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, David Maro said:

First off the manager seems to like not having a true 2nd or 3rd baseman. It gives him the opportunity to platoon players at those positions. Now he also has the same situation at 1st base. As far as Lewis goes he hasn't looked good at 3rd base and looked uncomfortable at 2nd base for the short time he played there. He may be a good trade chip if he is going to tell the organization where he is going to play. He could be a everyday LF'er that the team hasn't had since Rosario.

There's been a lot of piling on about platooning in just about every thread. Does Baldelli prefer to platoon? I think he'd love to have six guys play every day plus a catcher rotation and only platoon at two spots. He and the field staff are convinced that lefties should be shielded from left handed pitchers. He hasn't gone out of the way with many right handed bats to protect them from right handers. Many have remembered the game where he got snookered by the Giants. They started an opener and then went to a left handed pitcher who Rocco didn't realize was available and RB pinch hit for all of his lefties (at least two before they got an at-bat). That isn't the norm even for Rocco.

Getting to the above post, I think Rocco and the field staff would love to see Lewis, Correa and Lee line up in the three infield spots 140 or more times in 2025, maybe less for Lewis if he is used often at DH. Because of injuries and ineffectiveness, versatility is highly regarded and the Twins currently have one of the most versatile players in MLB in Willi Castro. 

[stringer bell]

I'm of the opinion that I'd like to see it settled where Royce Lewis is going to play for the next four years. It's not that uncommon for guys to play different spots before getting a permanent one. Chipper Jones was an outfielder for a while, Albert Pujols was a third baseman and left fielder before settling at first base as was Miggy Cabrera and they're all Hall-of-Famers. 

When Royce is settled, maybe the Twins can figure out what they will be doing with Lee. Honestly, I liked what I saw of Lee in the field at third base, but I'm pretty confident he would be fine at second. 

Also, if both Lee and Lewis have their feet under them this year, maybe they'll show a bit more in some of the measurements that Statcast provides. I hope so, since the trio of Lewis, Lee and Correa might be the slowest infield measured by Statcast last year.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Does anybody in the infield have a dedicated everyday position or is it going to be musical chairs all year?

Yes

[jmlease1]

14 hours ago, mnfireman said:

A stat line of .188/.250/.259 (.509 OPS) 28/6 K/BB 1 HR 4 RBI from Aug 16 to the end of the season begs to differ... 

yes, Julien sucked to end the season. (Correa & Buxton were good. Wallner, Larnach & Santana were fine. Basically everyone else crapped the bed) How was Castro's finish to the season? .200/.296/.267 (.562 OPS). But hey, he didn't strike out as much, so I'm sure it's fine.

The people who are done with Ed Julien as a player have essentially decided the 2023 didn't happen, only 2024 matters, and that he has no chance to bounce back and be the player who was 7th in RoY in 2023. It's a bold and unforgiving stance to give up on a player like that after one poor season. Is that what smart franchises do? Throw away a young, cheap player immediately after things go sideways? 

Maybe he'll never figure it out. Maybe he's too passive at the plate and doesn't make enough contact. Or maybe he makes adjustments at age 26 and gets back to being a plus hitter. But he should be in the mix for 2025.

[RpR]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

yes, Julien sucked to end the season. (Correa & Buxton were good. Wallner, Larnach & Santana were fine. Basically everyone else crapped the bed) How was Castro's finish to the season? .200/.296/.267 (.562 OPS). But hey, he didn't strike out as much, so I'm sure it's fine.

The people who are done with Ed Julien as a player have essentially decided the 2023 didn't happen, only 2024 matters, and that he has no chance to bounce back and be the player who was 7th in RoY in 2023. It's a bold and unforgiving stance to give up on a player like that after one poor season. Is that what smart franchises do? Throw away a young, cheap player immediately after things go sideways? 

Maybe he'll never figure it out. Maybe he's too passive at the plate and doesn't make enough contact. Or maybe he makes adjustments at age 26 and gets back to being a plus hitter. But he should be in the mix for 2025.

Julien is a black hole with a glove, and poor pitcher's life saver; time for him to do a Jake Cave, see if he can do better some where else.

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

yes, Julien sucked to end the season. (Correa & Buxton were good. Wallner, Larnach & Santana were fine. Basically everyone else crapped the bed) How was Castro's finish to the season? .200/.296/.267 (.562 OPS). But hey, he didn't strike out as much, so I'm sure it's fine.

The people who are done with Ed Julien as a player have essentially decided the 2023 didn't happen, only 2024 matters, and that he has no chance to bounce back and be the player who was 7th in RoY in 2023. It's a bold and unforgiving stance to give up on a player like that after one poor season. Is that what smart franchises do? Throw away a young, cheap player immediately after things go sideways? 

Maybe he'll never figure it out. Maybe he's too passive at the plate and doesn't make enough contact. Or maybe he makes adjustments at age 26 and gets back to being a plus hitter. But he should be in the mix for 2025.

Julien did look totally lost at the plate in 2024 and hitting is his calling card. He's smart enough and young enough to come out of it and be a good hitter again. That said, with lots of other options at second base, Julien might be moved elsewhere (DH or 1B) where the bar is higher for his offense, so he is really up against it.