Dan Hayes Ownership update

[Jocko87]

23 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

What's this "core" Falvey built?

Here's the core Falvey inherited.
2009 MVP, 6x All Star and HoF'er Joe Mauer with 2 years of team control
2021 All Star Eduardo Escobar with 2 years of team control
2008, 2017 All Star Ervin Santana with 2 years of team control
2015 All Star Brian Dozier with 3 years of team control
2021 All Star Kyle Gibson with 3 years of team control
2017 All Star Miguel Sano with 4 years of team control
2022 All Star Byron Buxton with 5 years of team control
2019 All Star Jorge Polanco with 6 years of team control
2018-2019 All Star Jose Berrios with 6 years of team control
2021 All Star Taylor Rogers with 6 years of team control
2022-2024 All Star Luis Arraez with 6 years of team control

Seriously... you'd think Falvey inherited a team of garbage the way you talk.
1B - Mauer
2B - Dozier
3B - Sano
SS - Polanco
LF - Rosario
CF - Buxton
RF - Kepler
Util - Escobar
SP1 - Santana
SP2 - Gibson
SP3 - Berrios

8 players with multiple years of team control produced more value than any player on the Twins that Falvey has ever developed in his tenure. EVER. Because Falvey has never seen one of his drafted/signed/developed prospects ever produce a single 3 WAR season.

That group of killers won 59 games and made some of the most conservative owners we've ever seen demand change.  Surely you aren't comparing Falvey to the group that got the Twins to actually fire someone. 

That some of them won a participation trophy popularity contest once or twice in their careers (most after Falvey took over) isn't the flex you think it is.  The top 40 prospects list of 2015 is pretty bleak.

All-Star games don't measure anything.  Be reasonable.

I'll grant we are still early in the results for Falvey at the major league level but how long does the average prospect take to make an impact?  That made up metric of yours will be leveling out shortly.

Falvey as a free agent has 20 suitors.  I would have used a higher number but apparently Roki Sasaki only has 20 interested teams.  What's Terry Ryan up to these days?

[tony&rodney]

Relax folks. We can have the Ryan-Falvey debate in 15 years.

The news/article from Dan Hayes on The Athletic was somewhat of a surprise. Was it leaked to garner some interest for the Twins as January tips in February and players reporting?

Just about any types of discussions could be going on regarding the sale of the team, including whether the team roster should receive a few boosts or changes. Until some word comes down, which we won't hear until something is finalized, Falvey is unlikely to make any changes. He is waiting for direction. We are waiting for the final handshake and signatures.

[DocBauer]

Only comment I'm going to make at this time is that that the Pohlad's made an announcement they had put the Twins franchise up for sale.

Based on the potential expediance of a potential sale, I'd have to believe there were boardroom conversations before said public announcements were made.

The hope is an ownership that will love baseball and the Twins and will invest in the team and the fandom to grow the franchise in a competitive nature and make it something we can all rally around and support.

I think any negative thoughts about what Falvey has done and built or not done due to financial considerations should be shelved until any new owners are ACTUALLY in place. 

[Unwinder]

I'm seeing a lot of discontent with the Ishbias from Phoenix Suns fans for a bad contract that's eating up cap space and making it nearly impossible to make a trade. You can't exactly blame them for making moves that became retroactively much worse under a new CBA that they couldn't have predicted, but it's got me very interested in seeing what other suiters the Twins might have (Though I would definitely take them over the Pohlads at this point).

[saviking]

We have a competitive team now. It's competitive enough to enjoy watching next season. 

The team is close to being sold, which is the ONLY way we are a competitive bidder in next year's free agency. The foundation is being laid. Rome was built in a day ..

[Whitey333]

Yes Falvey is way over rated even though ownership has tied his hands somewhat, or a lot.  We have not seen that much in player development.  Yes you can name all the players like Lee, Miranda, Gillian, etc.  They are on the team thus far but have a lot to prove they belong.  In my view Falvey has spent too much payroll on just a very few players thus hamstring his moves.  They keep saying they are in a win now mode.  But they have missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 season with Falvey player and manager.  If a new owner comes in I'm guessing the management gets the rest of 2025 as a mulligan of sorts.  But if real progress isn't made I would suspect and hope they bring in a whole new front office and a.new field manager.

[bean5302]

14 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

That group of killers won 59 games and made some of the most conservative owners we've ever seen demand change.  Surely you aren't comparing Falvey to the group that got the Twins to actually fire someone. 

That some of them won a participation trophy popularity contest once or twice in their careers (most after Falvey took over) isn't the flex you think it is.  The top 40 prospects list of 2015 is pretty bleak.

All-Star games don't measure anything.  Be reasonable.

I'll grant we are still early in the results for Falvey at the major league level but how long does the average prospect take to make an impact?  That made up metric of yours will be leveling out shortly.

Falvey as a free agent has 20 suitors.  I would have used a higher number but apparently Roki Sasaki only has 20 interested teams.  What's Terry Ryan up to these days?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I see. All those players who made the All Star games suck, and they didn't contribute anything to all of Falvey's teams not looking like the Chicago White Sox last year.

[In My La Z boy]

36 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Yes Falvey is way over rated even though ownership has tied his hands somewhat, or a lot.  We have not seen that much in player development.  Yes you can name all the players like Lee, Miranda, Gillian, etc.  They are on the team thus far but have a lot to prove they belong.  In my view Falvey has spent too much payroll on just a very few players thus hamstring his moves.  They keep saying they are in a win now mode.  But they have missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 season with Falvey player and manager.  If a new owner comes in I'm guessing the management gets the rest of 2025 as a mulligan of sorts.  But if real progress isn't made I would suspect and hope they bring in a whole new front office and a.new field manager.

🎯 Correa/Buxton/Lopez = 60% of our team budget
And obviously a Team with a $130M budget cannot possibly afford a $37M shortstop. 
I liked being the Piranha's
I liked being the Bomba Squad
Who are we? We have no identity.
 

[Jocko87]

3 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I see. All those players who made the All Star games suck, and they didn't contribute anything to all of Falvey's teams not looking like the Chicago White Sox last year.

[tony&rodney]

15 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

What's Terry Ryan up to these days?

Funny you should ask. One of the reason that Philadelphia signed Max Kepler was because of their special assignment scout, Terry Ryan. Among executives and people in the baseball world, few are respected for their knowledge as Terry Ryan. Dave Dombrowski (Philly POBO) had a nice little side set of comments in a recent interview about signing Kepler and Ryan's expertise. Ryan's ordeal running the Twins under Carl Pohlad makes the last few years "troubles" laughable by comparison. 

[Jocko87]

29 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Funny you should ask. One of the reason that Philadelphia signed Max Kepler was because of their special assignment scout, Terry Ryan. Among executives and people in the baseball world, few are respected for their knowledge as Terry Ryan. Dave Dombrowski (Philly POBO) had a nice little side set of comments in a recent interview about signing Kepler and Ryan's expertise. Ryan's ordeal running the Twins under Carl Pohlad makes the last few years "troubles" laughable by comparison. 

The Minnesota Twins were the second worst team in baseball from 2011 until he was fired. 

The failed GM to consultant/special advisor career path is very well worn in all industries. I know it well myself. 

He retired from the Phillies in 2022 and Dombrowski called him to chat about knowing Max in the minor leagues. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not exactly an I wish I could hire you out of retirement to run my operations endorsement.

We can be sentimental about his long stay in Minnesota with the benefits of hindsight (Falvey will get the same treatment) and still recognize that he didn't leave much of a core despite drafting high every year.

I don't have any animus for Terry Ryan, but he hasn't been a savvy baseball operator for 20 years.

[tony&rodney]

43 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

The Minnesota Twins were the second worst team in baseball from 2011 until he was fired. 

The failed GM to consultant/special advisor career path is very well worn in all industries. I know it well myself. 

He retired from the Phillies in 2022 and Dombrowski called him to chat about knowing Max in the minor leagues. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not exactly an I wish I could hire you out of retirement to run my operations endorsement.

We can be sentimental about his long stay in Minnesota with the benefits of hindsight (Falvey will get the same treatment) and still recognize that he didn't leave much of a core despite drafting high every year.

I don't have any animus for Terry Ryan, but he hasn't been a savvy baseball operator for 20 years.

I guess you would know more than Dombrowski, so I'll take your word.

[Jocko87]

58 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

I guess you would know more than Dombrowski, so I'll take your word.

I listened carefully to his interview, did I mischaracterize anything he said?  

Or did I call out your mischaracterization? 

[tony&rodney]

28 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

I listened carefully to his interview, did I mischaracterize anything he said?  

Or did I call out your mischaracterization? 

 

Neither really. There are so many facets to Ryan. People don't know what he endured.

“[Terry is] a guy who progressed up the ladder to become a general manager from the scouting end of it,” Dombrowski told Todd Zolecki of MLB.com in March 2021. “But anytime you would talk to people about evaluators of talent, Terry Ryan’s one of the most respected guys. So Terry’s involved in all the conversations we have now.”

The above was from when Dombrowski joined Philadelphia and insisted on moving Ryan into a more major position. Ryan had retreated to a role in scouting, a personal preference of his. 

“He said he was an outstanding left fielder,” Dombrowski said. “We called Terry when we were thinking about signing him because he’s always spoken very highly of Max. He said makeup-wise, he’s great. Tremendous. We’ve actually tried to acquire him in the past without success. But he said…’I saw him play all three outfield positions and first base and he can play all of them very well.’”

 

Terry Ryan retired a couple of years ago. He still gets phone calls from various people in the industry. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

On 1/8/2025 at 12:13 PM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

You and I have discussed this elsewhere, but if Derek Falvey needs a high payroll blank check to put together a competitive team (and by my reading, it appears he does), then the new owners might as well bring in their own baseball guys to run the team.

I don't understand what you are implying.  Can you explain? 

[FargoFanMan]

On 1/8/2025 at 3:27 PM, Jocko87 said:

The 59 win core?  With an antiquated disaster of a player development group?

Or the current core, which he built, with the overhauled player development department, which he overhauled, with the budget he demanded and spent every cent of?  Demanding so much budget he made the owners realize they could no longer afford to stay in the business.  Should be damn near Minnesota royalty, if I'm honest. 

For all the credit the Vikings get and deserve for a competitive rebuild, Falvey should get just as much credit.  He and Levine re-built the whole damn thing without ever actually blowing it up.  He owns it now and you should be buying stock while you still can.

Being a contrarian can only go so far as a shtick.

Absolutely this! It’s easy for people to forget the Terry Ryan years. And the Terry Ryan Metrodome years. Where this organization has come in terms of overhauling the team side of things is in itself a win just to get the Twins in the same realm as the rest of MLB. Now the business/ownership side needs to catch up. Love this comment. I’m always skeptical as well, but lend credit where credit is due. This franchise was 10 years behind when Falvey came in. Ownership and brass was 10 years behind until… insert new ownership. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

On 1/9/2025 at 4:58 PM, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I don't understand what you are implying.  Can you explain? 

One poster thought that having new Twins owners will mean that Falvey can spend more on free agents. I counter that new Twins ownership will not keep Falvey or St. Peter around but will hire their own top executives. 

[ashbury]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:39 PM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

One poster thought that having new Twins owners will mean that Falvey can spend more on free agents. I counter that new Twins ownership will not keep Falvey or St. Peter around but will hire their own top executives. 

Then Falvey will be able to spend more on free agents, just with a new team.  He won't be sidelined for longer than the next off-season, as some team with deeper pockets will like his resume.

St Peter, yeah, he gone.

[laloesch]

On 1/9/2025 at 12:08 PM, In My La Z boy said:

🎯 Correa/Buxton/Lopez = 60% of our team budget
And obviously a Team with a $130M budget cannot possibly afford a $37M shortstop. 
I liked being the Piranha's
I liked being the Bomba Squad
Who are we? We have no identity.
 

Bingo.  they never should have signed that 37 million dollar shortstop.  Signing Lopez was justifiable but the contracts for Correa and Buxton have been total complete disasters considering neither player can stay healthy for longer than 30 games at a time it seems.

[Major League Ready]

51 minutes ago, laloesch said:

Bingo.  they never should have signed that 37 million dollar shortstop.  Signing Lopez was justifiable but the contracts for Correa and Buxton have been total complete disasters considering neither player can stay healthy for longer than 30 games at a time it seems.

Buxton has been a bad investment in one of the last 4 years.  The other 3 years he produced a total of 11.3 WAR or $4M per WAR which is double the average production for free agents.  How is that a disaster?  

[SF Twins Fan]

Mat, Justin Ishbia Bought Chicago White Sox Stake in 2021

[Jocko87]

4 minutes ago, SF Twins Fan said:

Mat, Justin Ishbia Bought Chicago White Sox Stake in 2021

This is quite interesting, especially with the White Sox sorta for sale.  The Chicago boys would probably stay in Chicago if they had a chance, they seem to be in the cat birds seat at the moment. 

I'm ready to hear other names leak around the Twins.

I'm really ready for Mat to own the White Sox and Justin to own the Twins so we can get really petty.

[thelanges5]

M&M Boys as minority owners? I would love it if the sale progresses as fast as Dan is suggesting.

[big dog]

Regarding Suns and owner Mat Ishiba, here's a quote from John Hollinger in The Athletic in reference to last year's trade for Bradley Beale and the interest in now trading for Jimmy Butler:

Headline: As Jimmy Butler trade rumors swirl, Mat Ishbia and Suns keep chasing short-term highs

"They have one of the NBA's most creative front offices when it comes to finding new and different ways in which to mortgage their future."

link, requires TA or New York Times subscription

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6079964/2025/01/22/jimmy-butler-trade-rumors-suns-mat-ishbia/