Should the Twins Sell High on José Miranda?

[RpR]

47 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Please make some specific suggestions of what you are thinking could be done instead of finding fault with the ideas of others. You lose all credibility when you just complain. I think you likely have some thoughts on who should play .... just put them down in the comments. I'm old and believe people need to move forward. The sky is not really falling down.

Most often they say  give the young guys a chance, over and over,  Bollocks, this is not  AAA  and at that so many they think should be brought up are at best average in AAA.

I do not speculate on money that is not mine , but so many here prattle on as if they controlled the money and know EXACTLY what the Pohlads will do.

I do not play the wishful thinking game, acting as if my opinion over rides reality, not one Twins rookie has come up to Twins Daily blah, blah, blah.

I would bring back Kepler, Santana, and Farmer; put Wallner in Left field, and find a proven Center Field back-up till one of the AAA rookies hopefully shows he is ready to come up. I would NOT use the Twins regular season as an extension of Spring Training/AAA.

How much will they spend, do not know , do not care, their money, their finances.

Veterans made the 2019 team what it was; they need some veterans to give the Twins a chance at Postseason, until-hopefully, at least one of the AAA rookies shows he is good enough for full time Major League, not another Rooker-Sano-Kirilloff type of candle that won't light or burns out quickly.

Any duzzle can say: Let the young ones play; but it seems they do not give a darn how poorly the Twins play.

The Twins of the seventies were mostly a .500 team, with one or two end of season end craps like we had this year; I do not want to see year after year like that again.

[tony&rodney]

16 minutes ago, RpR said:

Most often they say  give the young guys a chance, over and over,  Bollocks, this is not  AAA  and at that so many they think should be brought up are at best average in AAA.

I do not speculate on money that is not mine , but so many here prattle on as if they controlled the money and know EXACTLY what the Pohlads will do.

I do not play the wishful thinking game, acting as if my opinion over rides reality, not one Twins rookie has come up to Twins Daily blah, blah, blah.

I would bring back Kepler, Santana, and Farmer; put Wallner in Left field, and find a proven Center Field back-up till one of the AAA rookies hopefully shows he is ready to come up. I would NOT use the Twins regular season as an extension of Spring Training/AAA.

How much will they spend, do not know , do not care, their money, their finances.

Veterans made the 2019 team what it was; they need some veterans to give the Twins a chance at Postseason, until-hopefully, at least one of the AAA rookies shows he is good enough for full time Major League, not another Rooker-Sano-Kirilloff type of candle that won't light or burns out quickly.

Any duzzle can say: Let the young ones play; but it seems they do not give a darn how poorly the Twins play.

The Twins of the seventies were mostly a .500 team, with one or two end of season end craps like we had this year; I do not want to see year after year like that again.

Ok. Fair enough. You do name four players you would like to see on the roster in 2025. I believe that is a start. Why worry about what other people say, just give your views. It isn't necessary to condemn other viewpoints. It doesn't matter any way. People do not need to agree in order to get along.

[rv78]

7 hours ago, RpR said:

A giant rotating hole in the infield, brilliant.

This year there was a giant hole at SS for the most important part of the season even though they spent $33+M on it. Brilliant indeed!

[rv78]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

LOL, what stars?

Many here are still hyping Lewis, Lewis, Lewis but now that is just wishful thinking, as reality says Lewis is average.

Let's see , hmm, Lee and Martin, came and . so far,  they only star in the minds of the posters here.

Julien -- as Mr.Bill would say -- ACK-PFFT- his days are done except maybe AAA.

Time to bring up the kids, and fight Chicago for last place, wonderful thought.

How are the "Veteran" stars doing? Oh yeah, we're lucky to see them on the field for half a season. Let's see, how well has that been for us? Tom Kelly always said you need to give a young player 1000 at bats before you really know what you have. With the way Rocco uses his young players it takes 3 or 4 seasons to get close to that amount of playing time. I wonder if the Twins gave up on Brent Rooker too soon and didn't give him enough at bats before moving on from him? They've tried the veteran approach and it hasn't gotten us anything but 1 playoff series victory. Small and Mid-market teams have to build from within and giving your young players playing time is the only way youtr going to know what you have. I've seen enough seasons wasted with washed up veterans to last a lifetime. Maybe with significant playing time, Lee, Martin and any of the other young players could develop into stars, but only if they're given the chance.

[RpR]

4 minutes ago, rv78 said:

How are the "Veteran" stars doing? Oh yeah, we're lucky to see them on the field for half a season. Let's see, how well has that been for us? Tom Kelly always said you need to give a young player 1000 at bats before you really know what you have. With the way Rocco uses his young players it takes 3 or 4 seasons to get close to that amount of playing time. I wonder if the Twins gave up on Brent Rooker too soon and didn't give him enough at bats before moving on from him. 

NO!

[stringer bell]

I don’t think Miranda’s finish to the season  makes other people want to acquire him. He cratered in the last half of the season and produced zero homers.

He showed enough to be a near-lock to make the club out of Spring Training and to get significant early playing time, but I don’t think there is a guarantee that he’ll be a full-time player in 2025.

Mike Max made a Twins comment about the new Twins batting coach to the effect that he needed to get much more out of Royce Lewis and Brooks Lee or the Twins would be in trouble. I would add Miranda to that list. 

[Doctor Wu]

14 hours ago, mickster said:

I am 100% behind trading him - brings back the most value

I think Brooks Lee would have had more trade value last year. 

[tony&rodney]

37 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

I think Brooks Lee would have had more trade value last year. 

It is hard to know that. Lee has a pretty stable floor as a guy who will field a position decently or better and who can hit enough to hold down a spot as a regular. The excitement about the ceiling stops Lee from becoming highly sought after, but stable players are key finishing touches for good teams. Lee certainly has value to teams, including the Twins.

[umterp23]

The Sporting News had an article yesterday talking about trading Buxton to Houston in a 3 team trade that ended up with Mountcastle from the O's coming to Twins.

Interesting article and they did point out the no-trade clause for Buxton, so that will be the hurdle.  The no-trade clause to me is let Buxton listen to what Twins want to do and where he would like to go.  He has the control to play for championships for back end of his injury plagued career.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/twins-land-valuable-orioles-slugger-proposed-three-way-blockbuster/a27e96328ae89592fd3f6b1c

 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

19 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Correa, Buxton, Lopez, Ober, and Ryan (possibly Lewis) are the only ones I would deem "untouchable".  Everyone else on this roster could be had for the right price.

I would add Jax to your list of untouchables. I feel he can become a quality starter.

[LambchoP]

We need to hold onto Miranda. For one, he's shown the ability to be one of our better hitters. Two, he's as cheap as can be. If we are looking to trade someone to get some salary relief to fix other areas of the roster, you don't trade a cheap player like Miranda who is controlled for years to come. Three, he's the only legit 1st baseman on the roster. Plus, our other infielders are going to be hurt at some point, meaning there will be plenty of innings at first base and probably third base for Miranda to cover. 

[Jeff K]

21 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Correa, Buxton, Lopez, Ober, and Ryan (possibly Lewis) are the only ones I would deem "untouchable".  Everyone else on this roster could be had for the right price.

For me, the only untradables are Lopez, Ober & Ryan.  Everyone else...if the return on the trade makes the team better, do it.  That said, I think Miranda is our likely first baseman next season.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

14 hours ago, rv78 said:

How are the "Veteran" stars doing? Oh yeah, we're lucky to see them on the field for half a season. Let's see, how well has that been for us? Tom Kelly always said you need to give a young player 1000 at bats before you really know what you have. With the way Rocco uses his young players it takes 3 or 4 seasons to get close to that amount of playing time. I wonder if the Twins gave up on Brent Rooker too soon and didn't give him enough at bats before moving on from him? They've tried the veteran approach and it hasn't gotten us anything but 1 playoff series victory. Small and Mid-market teams have to build from within and giving your young players playing time is the only way youtr going to know what you have. I've seen enough seasons wasted with washed up veterans to last a lifetime. Maybe with significant playing time, Lee, Martin and any of the other young players could develop into stars, but only if they're given the chance.

Can we please stop blaming the FO for Brent Rooker:

- Traded from The Twins to the Padres after an underwhelming first half year
- Basically an MiLB player for half the year before being traded to the Royals for a terrible AAA catcher
- Placed on waivers by a bad Royals team after the season
- Picked up by 60-win A's team with no options at 1B before seeing success (shocking all of MLB I might add)

Rooker was not a FO failure, he was yet another player that needed to find the right situation to be successful.  Let it go...

[Maybe Next Year]

17 hours ago, RpR said:

LOL, what stars?

Many here are still hyping Lewis, Lewis, Lewis but now that is just wishful thinking, as reality says Lewis is average.

Let's see , hmm, Lee and Martin, came and . so far,  they only star in the minds of the posters here.

Julien -- as Mr.Bill would say -- ACK-PFFT- his days are done except maybe AAA.

Time to bring up the kids, and fight Chicago for last place, wonderful thought.

If you go back and read my post you will see that I said future stars. I never called them stars. It’s way too soon to count out Lewis, Lee, Martin and Julien as they have all shown a lot of promise at times during their major league stint. They need more games at this level before you can call them busts, and I don’t believe any of them will be busts. Miranda had a good year and shows a lot of promise at the plate. The Twins management has done a pretty poor job trading our young players for veterans who never panned out. Why trade young talent that hasn’t fully reached their potential? Winning organizations are for the most part built from within. Time to develop our youngsters. 

[RpR]

7 minutes ago, Maybe Next Year said:

If you go back and read my post you will see that I said future stars. I never called them stars. It’s way too soon to count out Lewis, Lee, Martin and Julien as they have all shown a lot of promise at times during their major league stint. They need more games at this level before you can call them busts, and I don’t believe any of them will be busts. Miranda had a good year and shows a lot of promise at the plate. The Twins management has done a pretty poor job trading our young players for veterans who never panned out. Why trade young talent that hasn’t fully reached their potential? Winning organizations are for the most part built from within. Time to develop our youngsters. 

Using the way the majority of rookies have turned out the past five years, "Future stars", lol, that is a Pie-in-the-Sky  Crap-shoot on its best days.

Santana turned out very well, M. Taylor turned out well, Farmer was good last year and picked-up steam at the end of this, Correa was a good deal (there are not injury guarantees in veterans or rookies).

The 2019 team was carried by veterans; this year Correa, Vazquez and Santana performed in a way so many here think the rookies will magically become but have not.

They are trading nothing; So far Julien, Lewis, Kirilloff, Jeffers, Lee, Martin have come up craps.

Larnach, Miranda and Wallner are the only ones still at fifty-fifty level; It is up to them to see if the bar goes up, or down.

[cmoss84]

A little off topic...but...I would trade:

Correa, Miranda, and Buxton (about $53 in '25 and about $48 in '26-'28)

for

Arenado and Winn (about $33 in '25, $30 in '26, and $20 in '27)

I think this would benefit both teams...

[Cap'n Piranha]

17 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

CC is always hurt. Julien, we don't know if he can hit. Lewis is always hurt. They have no first baseman. Lee needs time in AAA. Where is this surplus?

On paper.

[bean5302]

On 10/24/2024 at 12:37 PM, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Can we please stop blaming the FO for Brent Rooker:

- Traded from The Twins to the Padres after an underwhelming first half year
- Basically an MiLB player for half the year before being traded to the Royals for a terrible AAA catcher
- Placed on waivers by a bad Royals team after the season
- Picked up by 60-win A's team with no options at 1B before seeing success (shocking all of MLB I might add)

Rooker was not a FO failure, he was yet another player that needed to find the right situation to be successful.  Let it go...

The front office is responsible for evaluating talent, and they failed miserably. Period. Rooker would have been the best player on the Twins last year by a mile. The only situation Rooker needed was consistent plate appearances. 

The Padres had no room on the roster for Rooker so he was in AAA where he put up a wRC+ 137.
The Royals thought they could pass Rooker through waivers despite his wRC+ 206 because of Rooker's age and reputation damage from the Twins view on him, deeming Rooker less valuable than AAAA studs like Trevor Larnach and Alex Kirilloff.

The Twins already trashed Rooker's value by giving up on him too early (which just goes to show how valuable reputation and prospect rankings really are to a player). 


 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

4 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

The front office is responsible for evaluating talent, and they failed miserably. Period. Rooker would have been the best player on the Twins last year by a mile. The only situation Rooker needed was consistent plate appearances. 

The Padres had no room on the roster for Rooker so he was in AAA where he put up a wRC+ 137.
The Royals thought they could pass Rooker through waivers despite his wRC+ 206 because of Rooker's age and reputation damage from the Twins view on him, deeming Rooker less valuable than AAAA studs like Trevor Larnach and Alex Kirilloff.

The Twins already trashed Rooker's value by giving up on him too early (which just goes to show how valuable reputation and prospect rankings really are to a player). 


 

His AAA numbers in SD were so strong they traded him for nothing?
Why would the terrible Royals try to "hide" him through waivers if they thought he was MLB ready?
The Twins damaged his reputation how exactly?  By not giving him enough time to be successful?

I understand you would like a complete overhaul of.. well... everyone and everything in leadership roles for the Twins, but understanding that players sometimes need to hear different voices and approaches to be successful doesn't necessarily mean failure by the Twins (or Padres or Royals for that matter).

[RpR]

43 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

The front office is responsible for evaluating talent, and they failed miserably. Period. Rooker would have been the best player on the Twins last year by a mile.

And put up with  a Sano clone,  with less fielding skill.

 

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

His AAA numbers in SD were so strong they traded him for nothing?
Why would the terrible Royals try to "hide" him through waivers if they thought he was MLB ready?
The Twins damaged his reputation how exactly?  By not giving him enough time to be successful?

I understand you would like a complete overhaul of.. well... everyone and everything in leadership roles for the Twins, but understanding that players sometimes need to hear different voices and approaches to be successful doesn't necessarily mean failure by the Twins (or Padres or Royals for that matter).

You don't understand.  The Twins' talent evaluation is SOOOO bad, it caused two other teams to mis-evaluate him too.

[David Maro]

Here is an idea stop the revolving door position players.One example there was 7 different LF in 24. Spring Training work to have 2 players per position,that seemed to work at catcher. And with payroll restrictions 1st base will need to be filled by Miranda or Kirilloff if still on the roster. This probably was one reason they fell apart at the end,to many position and lineup changes.