Is Baldelli the worst Manager in Twins/Senators history?

[karcherd]

On 9/12/2024 at 10:18 AM, MinnInPa said:

manager cant do anything about a guy watching strike 3 with no outs and guys on 2nd and 3rd....3 guys striking out in a row after leadoff guy gets on...guys swinging at balls in the dirt ..after watching 2 fastballs right down the pike....guys trying to score from 3rd on balls hit right at 3B.... pitchers throwing 0-2 counts in the zone..and lastly ..a bullpen that throws meatballs and cant miss bats.. no lead is safe with that crew

If the manager or a coach is feeding them data that says look for x pitch on a 1-2 count and that pitch isn't thrown, then the manager might have something to do with the team looking at third strikes.  And that has been talked about at different times over the last couple of years, with Rocco once saying maybe they are giving too much data.  They need a more general plan, listen to Morneau, Plouffe or some of the other analysts and come up with a game plan for when you are at bat.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:02 PM, Shaitan said:

Weird analogy. You know the Rams have played in like 5 cities, right?

That’s the lesson to be learned too. Support the team or it leaves for greener astroturf

[August J Gloop]

Gotta be the most reliable thing in sports. Fans know they don't have the talent to play the game. But they think that they definitely could be the manager if only they'd had the chance. Their only evidence? That they would simply have made a different decision than the one that didn't work out. 

The premise of this thread is bad. The arguments put forward are bad. Rocco is unquestionably one of the better managers in team history. How do we know this? he has the 5th best winning percentage in team history. The Twins have been a top 10 team during his entire run as manager. 

It's embarrassing to argue otherwise. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

On 9/16/2024 at 1:25 PM, August J Gloop said:

The premise of this thread is bad. The arguments put forward are bad. Rocco is unquestionably one of the better managers in team history. How do we know this? he has the 5th best winning percentage in team history. The Twins have been a top 10 team during his entire run as manager. 

It's embarrassing to argue otherwise. 

Is this a bit, like one of those stupid bits in the game recaps?

Rocco is easily the worst manager out of the last four we have had: Kelly, Gardy, Molitor, and Baldelli. 

of the four modern day managers 

[RpR]

In my opinion, Gardenhie is the  worst as he started the Yankees and Posteason failings.

[Craig Arko]

4 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Is this a bit, like one of those stupid bits in the game recaps?

Rocco is easily the worst manager out of the last four we have had: Kelly, Gardy, Molitor, and Baldelli. 

of the four modern day managers 

Is there a basis for this claim, or is it a gut feeling thing?

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Craig Arko said:

Is there a basis for this claim, or is it a gut feeling thing?

I'll be so bold as to speak for HBD...

 

Yes.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

3 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

Is there a basis for this claim, or is it a gut feeling thing?

Thanks for the challenge. Both? 🙂

As a response to the claim that Rocco is the worst ever, sure it's fair to respond in kind, and claim that actually he's the best ever. That was probably how my response came off, and I can do better.

If the argument is that Rocco is the best based on win percentage, ranking well ahead of Tom Kelly, and no other variables need be considered, then we should just let people be wrong on the internet and have a nice day.

If you are critiquing the in-game management, clubhouse, and other little things, which I think most people fall into this category, then yes I think there is a healthy discussion to be had. I heard Molitor one night criticize Rocco's tendency to send the third base runner home on contact on any ground ball. 

If someone is saying that Rocco is just an extension of the front office and doesn't really make many in-game decisions on his own, I would just say there's a lot of that going around the league right now, and it's too bad. 

Do the players have a bigger impact on the game than the manager? Absolutely.

 

[Craig Arko]

6 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Thanks for the challenge. Both? 🙂

As a response to the claim that Rocco is the worst ever, sure it's fair to respond in kind, and claim that actually he's the best ever. That was probably how my response came off, and I can do better.

If the argument is that Rocco is the best based on win percentage, ranking well ahead of Tom Kelly, and no other variables need be considered, then we should just let people be wrong on the internet and have a nice day.

If you are critiquing the in-game management, clubhouse, and other little things, which I think most people fall into this category, then yes I think there is a healthy discussion to be had. I heard Molitor one night criticize Rocco's tendency to send the third base runner home on contact on any ground ball. 

If someone is saying that Rocco is just an extension of the front office and doesn't really make many in-game decisions on his own, I would just say there's a lot of that going around the league right now, and it's too bad. 

Do the players have a bigger impact on the game than the manager? Absolutely.

 

Certainly none of them were Bud Grant, or Jerry Burns. Actually, I’d have loved to see (and hear) it if Burnsie could have had a chance to manage a baseball team. “Just hit the ****ing ball, you ****ing idiot!”

[CRF]

On 9/10/2024 at 12:14 PM, DJL44 said:

Billy Martin would lose a modern clubhouse in less than an hour.

Worse than that...somebody would probably off him. 

[Sven]

Baldelli lost another tonight.  And he is not a good manager for young players, Walner & Julien.  You have to let them face lefties early & often or they will never learn to hit them.  Pinch hitting every time kills confidence.

B Martin's Brother

[jaimedude]

Rocco seems like he throwing in the towel on this season. I would not be shocked one bit if he pursues other managerial openings this off-season. I would bet his representation putting out feelers to other organizations. He seems checked out. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Too lazy to read (more than one or two comments in) this thread.

Can someone summarize for me if there is interesting discussion?

I learned my lesson on this front when Dozier was going to be traded to the Dodgers in 24 hours..

Short answer is no. There is no worst. Only Zuul.

[notoriousgod71]

 

Cleveland thinks Rocco is a great manager.

 

[jaimedude]

1 hour ago, notoriousgod71 said:

 

Cleveland thinks Rocco is a great manager.

 

Well if that isn't telling and a kick in the shins. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Guards are the prime example of how a manager can make a difference. Look at where they were last year and compare it to this season. And that's with ownership that is worse than the Joe P. when it comes to spending money...and that's with injuries to their rotation.

Rocco needs to go. Up to Joe to make it happen.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Oh, speaking of the Guards...

I don't like disrespecting an opponent and they did it throughout that series. You don't have to show anyone up. First time the Twins play them in 2025, I'd like Gimenez to get a bit of chin music. Send some type of message.

[karcherd]

On 9/18/2024 at 9:25 PM, jaimedude said:

Rocco seems like he throwing in the towel on this season. I would not be shocked one bit if he pursues other managerial openings this off-season. I would bet his representation putting out feelers to other organizations. He seems checked out. 

No team is going to talk to his representatives because he is still under contract with the Twins thru next year.

[jaimedude]

10 minutes ago, karcherd said:

No team is going to talk to his representatives because he is still under contract with the Twins thru next year.

I said feelers, which means back channel through agents. Nobody talks directly when looking to make moves, but agents know what to look for and who to talk to unofficially.  If Rocco is feeling any heat he will be looking to move. I mean Council was still managing Brewers but looking for landing  spots last year. I know different as hus contract was up. I could see teams like Rockies or Pirates wanting to shake things up, even the Rays. You are right though nobody is going to tamper directly. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Not so sure it's Rocco checking out as much as this is his personality. He was at the helm in an epic collapse in September '22 and he's back at this year. Doesn't have that rah-rah nature that's going to rally the troops. Sometimes you need a manager that is going to give a kick in the pants. Rocco isn't it.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

Rocco was the guy who kept using Emilio Pagan in high leverage situations, yes?

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 9/18/2024 at 7:10 AM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Is this a bit, like one of those stupid bits in the game recaps?

Rocco is easily the worst manager out of the last four we have had: Kelly, Gardy, Molitor, and Baldelli. 

of the four modern day managers 

You think Molitor was better? The guy who blew out his best bullpen arms every season because he wouldn't throw anyone else in close situations? I mean, that's an opinion, I guess. Personally, I was horribly disappointed by Molitor as a manager.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

You think Molitor was better? The guy who blew out his best bullpen arms every season because he wouldn't throw anyone else in close situations? I mean, that's an opinion, I guess. Personally, I was horribly disappointed by Molitor as a manager.

What I saw was Glen Perkins hurting his shoulder overthrowing in the 2015 All Star Game. Addison Reed, you are probably right. Ryan Pressly and Taylor Rogers did ok throughout the Molitor years. 

I was actually going to update this thread this morning--would people rather have Alex Cora or Rocco Baldelli as manager? undisciplined or dysfunctional? I would take Rocco & dysfunction any day. It looks like it's the inmates running the asylum in Boston. They have become just another completely mediocre baseball team since 2018, and it's been all under Cora and the new wave of players they are bringing in. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

What I saw was Glen Perkins hurting his shoulder overthrowing in the 2015 All Star Game. Addison Reed, you are probably right. Ryan Pressly and Taylor Rogers did ok throughout the Molitor years. 

I was actually going to update this thread this morning--would people rather have Alex Cora or Rocco Baldelli as manager? undisciplined or dysfunctional? I would take Rocco & dysfunction any day. It looks like it's the inmates running the asylum in Boston. They have become just another completely mediocre baseball team since 2018, and it's been all under Cora and the new wave of players they are bringing in. 

I think that's a little unfair to Cora. You're completely ignoring that ownership kneecapped the franchise by forcing a Betts trade and making uncompetitive offers to the likes of Bogaerts.

Is Cora a great manager? I have no idea but he has been working with diminishing roster returns since that championship.

[nicksaviking]

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