No real trades at the deadline?

[Twodogs]

So just everyone's opinion, the Twins have the best record in the American League since April 22nd.  I know they got some average reliever from Toronto, but if they make no real trades do they still have a legit shot??

[Twinsfreak23]

I think it becomes more difficult. But I do think that the Twins roster is also the most complete roster of the 3 teams chasing the central. But, I just assume in the next week 16 guys will get hurt and it won't matter. Twins are cursed, mostly by their ownership.

[jaimedude]

33 minutes ago, Twinsfreak23 said:

I think it becomes more difficult. But I do think that the Twins roster is also the most complete roster of the 3 teams chasing the central. But, I just assume in the next week 16 guys will get hurt and it won't matter. Twins are cursed, mostly by their ownership.

I agree, with the injury luck this year. Part of this is karma brought on by Twins ownership handcuffing front office.  No wonder Levine tried to bail. Twins could not sucker anyone into taking Kyle Farmer or Caleb Thielbar off their hands. 

[jaimedude]

If the Twins tank due to morale, Joe Pohlad owns the brunt of the blame. 

[SwainZag]

2 minutes ago, jaimedude said:

If the Twins tank due to morale, Joe Pohlad owns the brunt of the blame. 

If they tank due to morale, there is a much bigger issue here. 

[Twodogs]

Most of the really good starting pitchers didn't get traded?  Snell, Skubal, Crochet?  They all stayed put.  I think Scott would have helped a lot but getting Trevor Rodgers probably doesn't make them any better.

[Mike Sixel]

Ownership doesn't care about anything but making money. Which is their right... But I hope zero fans go to games. 

[jaimedude]

I don't think prospect cost worth what trades were going for. Would have liked to have seen Twins trade a Kepler just because they are pending free agent. 

[Irishman]

13 minutes ago, jaimedude said:

If the Twins tank due to morale, Joe Pohlad owns the brunt of the blame. 

Don’t come watch at Target field.   
Since 2017 I haven’t been to Target field.    I am not fond of the ownership and FO.   

[cHawk]

 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, cHawk said:

 

Bah. It's ownership

[MMMordabito]

Hey, at least all the speculation is over with.

[Irishman]

34 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Ownership doesn't care about anything but making money. Which is their right... But I hope zero fans go to games. 

Exactly!   

[Twodogs]

2 hours ago, Irishman said:

Don’t come watch at Target field.   
Since 2017 I haven’t been to Target field.    I am not fond of the ownership and FO.   

I just wish the Twins would get an owner that would at least do what it takes to go for it once in awhile.  I get it in the lean years pull back and conserve and build up from within.  But in these situations maybe try and go for it.  But weird year with the TV situation and all of that.  I'm just worried about exactly what you said, people not going to the games because ownership isn't trying hard.  I mean they did that in Oakland and now they don't have a team anymore.  So it's a double edged sword we as the fans wield.  Boycotting works until it doesn't anymore and then we might not have a team to talk about.  I'm just hopeful that the main guys, Lewis, Buxton, Correa, etc..... all stay healthy and with that, maybe we don't really need anyone else.  I know that's blowing smoke, but I'm hopeful.

[Brandon]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Ownership doesn't care about anything but making money. Which is their right... But I hope zero fans go to games. 

Even still when their revenue was higher the payroll was higher thus I hope more people go to games to get more revenue and thus more payroll.  I’m fine with entrepreneurs making money.  No one works for free.  But I want Falvey and Levine to have more resources.

[alexlegge]

Like many, I am very frustrated with the way ownership has been trying to cut corners amidst the team's most promising competitive window in 20 years cracking open as of 2023. I do slightly appreciate that Joe Pohlad has been open about their intent all along; let's see if the messaging and/or approach changes as the broadcasting snafus begin to unsnarl.

In the meantime, here's my feeble - albeit "wise" - attempt at a shred of optimism: two years ago, the narrative around baseball was that the Twins had won the trade deadline, making themselves clear favorites to win the division, while the meeker Guardians (and Pale-Hoes) stood pat. We all know how that turned out...it was an unmitigated disaster for us. 

Let's let the games play out (even the 15-2 losses).

Worst case scenario, we end up where we were at the end of 2022, except without having gutted our farm system.

 

^_^

[tony&rodney]

Falvey made very specific reference that money/contracts was in no way a consideration during this trading deadline. I guess we can say he lies about everything or is trying to protect his bosses. That sounds complicated.

Who were the misses? San Diego traded 3 of their top 5 prospects. Should the Twins have done that for one of the players (Tanner Scott)?

Look, the Twins have 18 games out of 28 in August at Target Field. They are going to play some good teams. Let's see what the players people love can do. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, alexlegge said:

Like many, I am very frustrated with the way ownership has been trying to cut corners amidst the team's most promising competitive window in 20 years cracking open as of 2023. I do slightly appreciate that Joe Pohlad has been open about their intent all along; let's see if the messaging and/or approach changes as the broadcasting snafus begin to unsnarl.

In the meantime, here's my feeble - albeit "wise" - attempt at a shred of optimism: two years ago, the narrative around baseball was that the Twins had won the trade deadline, making themselves clear favorites to win the division, while the meeker Guardians (and Pale-Hoes) stood pat. We all know how that turned out...it was an unmitigated disaster for us. 

Let's let the games play out (even the 15-2 losses).

Worst case scenario, we end up where we were at the end of 2022, except without having gutted our farm system.

 

^_^

Gutted? 

[USAFChief]

8 hours ago, alexlegge said:

Like many, I am very frustrated with the way ownership has been trying to cut corners amidst the team's most promising competitive window in 20 years cracking open as of 2023. I do slightly appreciate that Joe Pohlad has been open about their intent all along; let's see if the messaging and/or approach changes as the broadcasting snafus begin to unsnarl.

In the meantime, here's my feeble - albeit "wise" - attempt at a shred of optimism: two years ago, the narrative around baseball was that the Twins had won the trade deadline, making themselves clear favorites to win the division, while the meeker Guardians (and Pale-Hoes) stood pat. We all know how that turned out...it was an unmitigated disaster for us. 

Let's let the games play out (even the 15-2 losses).

Worst case scenario, we end up where we were at the end of 2022, except without having gutted our farm system.

 

^_^

So the Twins "gutted" their farm system in 2022, but "the most promising window in 20 years" opened in 2023?

I might infer they either didn't gut their system, or farm systems really aren't all that important. 

Which would you say it is?

[USAFChief]

8 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Falvey made very specific reference that money/contracts was in no way a consideration during this trading deadline. I guess we can say he lies about everything or is trying to protect his bosses. That sounds complicated.

 

 

Then he's incompetent. 

[tony&rodney]

12 hours ago, Twodogs said:

I'm just worried about exactly what you said, people not going to the games because ownership isn't trying hard.  I mean they did that in Oakland and now they don't have a team anymore.  So it's a double edged sword we as the fans wield.  Boycotting works until it doesn't anymore and then we might not have a team to talk about. 

While it doesn't seem too likely, it is worth remembering that there are a number of communities that would gladly host an MLB team. 

So many factors go into putting a competitive team together and once an organization reaches a point where there is some success the costs (in players) rises quickly. The Rays keep retooling and manage to remain competitive but they face difficulties in reaching the playoffs. Their attendance is abysmal. The Twins don't draw that well either. Money does drive decisions. A solid media deal helps but filled stadiums still make a statement more than anything else. I think this is why San Diego is so aggressive.

I was very frustrated by how the team approached the last several offseasons as well as what I saw as poor decisions at the trading deadline. However as a Twins fan since 1961 I still follow the team and their minor league affiliates. Sometimes I wonder what percentage of folks on Twins Daily are baseball only fans or how many are bigger fans of football. On numerous occasions there are references to the coming Viking season. I get that people are angry at the Pohlads but I don't understand how that helps anything. It just seems like there are folks living in retirement who flail against a symbol. I'm not a supporter of the Pohlads but I also doubt they are even aware of the players around baseball much less the minor leagues; they don't have a card in the deals. They approve the really big stuff, Buxton and Correa, while setting a general budget. 

Baseball is a long game. Losing one game or one series has consequences but there is another game the next day. In that way it is just like life because your good and bad days end and when you go to bed you know another day is right behind it. 

I expect big crowds when Cleveland comes to Target Field. It is a chance for the Twins to show their game. If they lose they will have to get ready for Kansas City and the most exciting player in baseball. Go Twins.

[Puckett34]

Personally to me, its not about making moves vs not making moves.  I don't think there were too many moves to be made.  Fedde, Flaherty likely weren't going to be dealt here due to the perceived "in-division tax" cost in prospects even before talking about dollars and cents.  Eovaldi was on my personal wish list and wasn't dealt anywhere.  That Kikuchi return to the Blue Jays was decent, unsure if the FO would've given up the prospects for him anyway.  Who's that leaving? Upgrades to the bullpen would've been nice but idk.  Starting pitching trades were scarce though.

 

To me, my biggest issue with how the last ~4-5 days turned out was the pre-emptive, mostly unnecessary management of expectations from ownership by citing budget concerns.  Needle moving trades weren't likely coming to Minnesota anyway due to the aforementioned in division trades.  Maybe they tried to strike a deal with the Marlins or something that didn't pan out.

 

I just think the ownership group could've done themselves a favor by saying nothing prior to the deadline. 

[Vanimal46]

14 minutes ago, Puckett34 said:

I just think the ownership group could've done themselves a favor by saying nothing prior to the deadline. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Sports fans beg for the truth. Then when we get the truth, and it’s something we don’t like, then we say they shouldn’t have said anything. 

If they said nothing, then we would say why are the Pohlads hiding from accountability? 

[Puckett34]

5 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Sports fans beg for the truth. Then when we get the truth, and it’s something we don’t like, then we say they shouldn’t have said anything. 

If they said nothing, then we would say why are the Pohlads hiding from accountability? 

Didn't add that in that they would screwed either way. That is my bad.

[alexlegge]

12 hours ago, USAFChief said:

So the Twins "gutted" their farm system in 2022, but "the most promising window in 20 years" opened in 2023?

I might infer they either didn't gut their system, or farm systems really aren't all that important. 

Which would you say it is?

A fan of guts, eh? You like tripe a lot? Some do, and there's nothing wrong with that. 

It doesn't have to be either/or. It's not an assembly line. Might I add that, in case you forgot, our bar for 20-year-high competitive window was merely "capable of winning a game in the postseason" - so that term really isn't *as* forceful as it sounds.

The full farm system is more about sustainability for a 10+ year plan, whereas an opening competitive window is based on two things coming together at the right time: existing talent in the bigs (not part of the farm system whatsoever) and the rise of a core *group* of solid players at the highest levels of the minors. The Twins kind of had two solid cores back-to-back - one that broke into the league circa 2000, and one that broke in a few years later. By the time that 2nd group broke in, a lot of the first group was already in the bigs. Which is why we ended up with great baseball for most of that decade. 

This group is probably the strongest 'core' we've seen since then. But also, they joined a team of decent players from a previous core (Kepler, Buxton, Polanco). That's what makes the window open up more -- though when you're trading Polanco in the offseason, partially a consequence of stingy ownership, the window opening isn't very comfortable.  Recall that the previous 'core' entered the league in the Paul Molitor era, a time when the Twins front office was in limbo. Remember that 10-year window without a decent core...from mid-2000s to mid-2010s?? The Ryan Doumit era?? That's where the farm system really matters. The Twins had a mediocre farm system at best, with bad player development strategies and an outdated pitching philosophy. Now, we're starting to finally see some glimpses of the 'sustainable championship-caliber baseball' that Thad Levine touted back when those guys were hired. And yet, ownership has done nothing with that window, and the 2022 trade deadline "gutting" was very unhelpful. Had any of those trades panned out OR not happened, then we might be looking at a much nicer window-opening. Right now, it's a creaky old thing that could easily come shattering down, and it barely even guarantees entry to the playoffs, let alone one win. Frankly, that's a little further closed than it was even last fall. Who's to say they wouldn't have landed bigger trades this year - or had a team that was more than 10-games above .500 - had the 2022 deadline gone differently? I stand by my original comment. It's all important and 2022 was a crappy deadline. Did they bet the farm on it? No. They just bet the intestines. 

[USAFChief]

39 minutes ago, alexlegge said:

A fan of guts, eh? You like tripe a lot? Some do, and there's nothing wrong with that. 

It doesn't have to be either/or. It's not an assembly line. Might I add that, in case you forgot, our bar for 20-year-high competitive window was merely "capable of winning a game in the postseason" - so that term really isn't *as* forceful as it sounds.

The full farm system is more about sustainability for a 10+ year plan, whereas an opening competitive window is based on two things coming together at the right time: existing talent in the bigs (not part of the farm system whatsoever) and the rise of a core *group* of solid players at the highest levels of the minors. The Twins kind of had two solid cores back-to-back - one that broke into the league circa 2000, and one that broke in a few years later. By the time that 2nd group broke in, a lot of the first group was already in the bigs. Which is why we ended up with great baseball for most of that decade. 

This group is probably the strongest 'core' we've seen since then. But also, they joined a team of decent players from a previous core (Kepler, Buxton, Polanco). That's what makes the window open up more -- though when you're trading Polanco in the offseason, partially a consequence of stingy ownership, the window opening isn't very comfortable.  Recall that the previous 'core' entered the league in the Paul Molitor era, a time when the Twins front office was in limbo. Remember that 10-year window without a decent core...from mid-2000s to mid-2010s?? The Ryan Doumit era?? That's where the farm system really matters. The Twins had a mediocre farm system at best, with bad player development strategies and an outdated pitching philosophy. Now, we're starting to finally see some glimpses of the 'sustainable championship-caliber baseball' that Thad Levine touted back when those guys were hired. And yet, ownership has done nothing with that window, and the 2022 trade deadline "gutting" was very unhelpful. Had any of those trades panned out OR not happened, then we might be looking at a much nicer window-opening. Right now, it's a creaky old thing that could easily come shattering down, and it barely even guarantees entry to the playoffs, let alone one win. Frankly, that's a little further closed than it was even last fall. Who's to say they wouldn't have landed bigger trades this year - or had a team that was more than 10-games above .500 - had the 2022 deadline gone differently? I stand by my original comment. It's all important and 2022 was a crappy deadline. Did they bet the farm on it? No. They just bet the intestines. 

For the record. "Gutted" wasn't my word, it was yours.

I don't think they gutted anything in 2022. You won't find posts from me complaining about our FO trying to help the team when its in contention. 

IMO They should have made an effort again this year.

Prospects only purpose is to help the major league team win. I believe in the overwhelming majority of cases they best serve that goal through getting MLB talent in trade. There's always new prospects next year. Look at how that "Gutted" system from 2022 is regarded just 2 years later.

I also realize many fans feel differently. 

 

 

 

[alexlegge]

18 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

For the record. "Gutted" wasn't my word, it was yours.

I don't think they gutted anything in 2022. You won't find posts from me complaining about our FO trying to help the team when its in contention. 

IMO They should have made an effort again this year.

Prospects only purpose is to help the major league team win. I believe in the overwhelming majority of cases they best serve that goal through getting MLB talent in trade. There's always new prospects next year. Look at how that "Gutted" system from 2022 is regarded just 2 years later.

I also realize many fans feel differently. 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with your premise, I just think that it had a net-negative impact. In other words, I certainly don't think it's a coincidence that they failed to gain any value out of three or four trades that year...and the following two years cannot find a suitable trade partner. If their farm system was so well-regarded, that doesn't seem like it would be the case. To the extent that we're both a little right and wrong here, I'd wager that perhaps you're slightly overrating the current farm system and underrating what they lost in 2022. I'm slightly underrating the current farm system and overrating  what they lost in 2022. Either way, maybe where we can find a common ground here is that it feels crappy as a fan when, after that window finally opens...they show no interest in widening the opening, and largely due to their own action/inaction, they're seemingly struggling to *keep* it open. 

[Vanimal46]

The reality is the next time the Twins win a World Series it will be by sheer luck. Just like 1987 and 1991. The Pohlads didn’t capitalize when the team was on a MLB record setting HR pace in 2019. The entire decade of the 2000s. Doesn’t matter if the moon aligns with Saturn and Jupiter. That’s just how they roll as owners. 

[yeahyabetcha]

On 7/30/2024 at 5:35 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Ownership doesn't care about anything but making money. Which is their right... But I hope zero fans go to games. 

Who exactly did you want them to trade for?  
 

Where should the payroll be set at?

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, yeahyabetcha said:

Who exactly did you want them to trade for?  
 

Where should the payroll be set at?

Every player

One trillion dollars