Handing Out First-Half Awards for the 2024 Minnesota Twins

[DJL44]

46 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

In agreement with all the LVP comments until this one - I mentioned Farmer as THE LVP earlier, he deserves this, but saying Julien doesn’t deserve consideration is questionable since he has 47 more AB’s than Farmer even after being sent down for 3 weeks. The offensive expectations were higher for Eddie - he had 7 HR’s by April 27 and he never hit another one for essentially 6 weeks. ……If Farmer hits his career average over the next 47 AB’s he’ll surpass Julien’s BA…….certainly not a lofty goal.

Julien was league average for his position for the time he was in the majors. He got on base and made his plays at 2B. Your expectations don't matter when determining his value to the team.

[arby58]

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

He's not been good, and he's definitely not worth $10M, but there have been several catchers who are worse with a regular job in baseball. It's actually a sign of a pretty good team if their worst player is right around replacement level.

There are 41 catchers with at least 100 AB. Via WAR, Vasquez is 38th. The only catchers below him are Ruiz (Nationals), Fortes (Marlins), and Maldanado (White Sox) - teams that are a combined 57 games under .500. 

[ashbury]

My only change would be to make them DIShonorable Mentions for LVP.

[LA Vikes Fan]

7 hours ago, DJL44 said:

No. Farmer would pass through waivers and become a free agent. The Twins would owe the entire contract except the league minimum. His job right now is mostly to make sure the bench is warm. Kyle Farmer is the most irrelevant player on the team at the moment. He's hardly playing which makes him an unusual scapegoat. Cutting him would make little impact because he's hardly playing as-is.

If they bring up Brooks Lee he's going to need to be in the lineup every day. They're not going to let him rot on the bench like Kyle Farmer. That means fewer at-bats for Castro, Lewis, Miranda, Larnach or Martin. Those players are all doing quite well at the moment. That's the downside of promoting Lee.

Agree on result for at least some of those other players, disagree in whether to and how to bring Lee up.  The guys who will lose ABs if you bring Lee up are Trevor Larnach, Manuel Margot, and Austin Martin. Lee will be at least the LH hitting 2B and also play a day a week at SS. Castro becomes the every day LF - he's good out there defensively and deserves to play every day. Miranda, Santana, and Lewis will hold down the 1B/3B/DH spots 5 days out of 6.  That leaves only 2 or 3 games a week in either LF when Castro sits, CF when Buxton sits, or RF when Kepler sits, for Martin, Margot, and Larnach, plus maybe one day a week as a DH. 

Where I disagree is I think that the change might be a net gain and is worth exploring.  While the most direct route is to DFA Farmer, he does have some value as a RH IF playing 2 days a week and provides injury depth. Instead, I would like to see the Twins try to trade Larnach or Martin plus a B level minor leaguer for a solid to good reliever and a low level minor league lottery ticket, or even straight up for an good but 30 plus year old reliever on a bad team. I don't think you can get more than that. It's not so risky because if Lee bombs, then Castro goes back to 2B and one of Larnach/Martin. plus Margot and Wallner (up for Lee if he bombs and is demoted) play LF and act as OFs 3 through 5. Larnach or Martin gets a chance to play every day for say Miami, Oakland, or the Angels. If Lee hits, you've lengthened the lineup with a switch hitter who should strengthen the IF defense.  

So to me, the real question is do you think Lee can provide more offense than one of Larnach or Martin? I think he can. So I think the real issue isn't should we lose Farmer, it's how do we get Lee up and into the lineup. That's something that requires a trade (or demotion) of Larnach or Martin or a DFA of Farmer. Watch, an injury will change all of this - almost did Thursday night. Have to believe that if Correa was out for 4-6 weeks with a fractured wrist, Lee would be up as the everyday SS in his place.  

[DJL44]

6 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

So to me, the real question is do you think Lee can provide more offense than one of Larnach or Martin? I think he can. 

I think it's a push. I agree that a trade seems likely.

[old nurse]

8 hours ago, Karbo said:

I'd still do it. He is hitting poorly, his defense, though OK, hasn't been anything special, and they need to make room for Lee.

Farmer has been hitting just below league average by WOBA since May1. He isn’t going anywhere.

[old nurse]

3 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Agree on result for at least some of those other players, disagree in whether to and how to bring Lee up.  The guys who will lose ABs if you bring Lee up are Trevor Larnach, Manuel Margot, and Austin Martin. Lee will be at least the LH hitting 2B and also play a day a week at SS. Castro becomes the every day LF - he's good out there defensively and deserves to play every day. Miranda, Santana, and Lewis will hold down the 1B/3B/DH spots 5 days out of 6.  That leaves only 2 or 3 games a week in either LF when Castro sits, CF when Buxton sits, or RF when Kepler sits, for Martin, Margot, and Larnach, plus maybe one day a week as a DH. 

Where I disagree is I think that the change might be a net gain and is worth exploring.  While the most direct route is to DFA Farmer, he does have some value as a RH IF playing 2 days a week and provides injury depth. Instead, I would like to see the Twins try to trade Larnach or Martin plus a B level minor leaguer for a solid to good reliever and a low level minor league lottery ticket, or even straight up for an good but 30 plus year old reliever on a bad team. I don't think you can get more than that. It's not so risky because if Lee bombs, then Castro goes back to 2B and one of Larnach/Martin. plus Margot and Wallner (up for Lee if he bombs and is demoted) play LF and act as OFs 3 through 5. Larnach or Martin gets a chance to play every day for say Miami, Oakland, or the Angels. If Lee hits, you've lengthened the lineup with a switch hitter who should strengthen the IF defense.  

So to me, the real question is do you think Lee can provide more offense than one of Larnach or Martin? I think he can. So I think the real issue isn't should we lose Farmer, it's how do we get Lee up and into the lineup. That's something that requires a trade (or demotion) of Larnach or Martin or a DFA of Farmer. Watch, an injury will change all of this - almost did Thursday night. Have to believe that if Correa was out for 4-6 weeks with a fractured wrist, Lee would be up as the everyday SS in his place.  

Good luck finding a 30 something pitcher on a bad team that is good. Maybe Chargois, but this is the front office that waived him 

[JD-TWINS]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Julien was league average for his position for the time he was in the majors. He got on base and made his plays at 2B. Your expectations don't matter when determining his value to the team.

In what context was Eddie “league average”? MY EXPECTATIONS???……..I didn’t send him to St. Paul ……….he was embarrassing himself at the plate - plain and simple. Obvious to everyone at TD other than you apparently.

His BA was .207 & his OBP was .309………last year his OBP was .381. ……..he didn’t/doesn’t need to meet last year but can’t have him hit with zero power & hit 60 points less than last year while striking out at a 39% rate. THIRTY NINE PERCENT……..how does that line up anywhere near “league average”. …..FYI, league average for K% is at 22%. 

[DJL44]

13 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

In what context was Eddie “league average”?

In the context of second basemen in MLB in the 2024 season. Look up his WAA on Baseball Reference and it says 0.0 - exactly league average performance.

[JD-TWINS]

2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

In the context of second basemen in MLB in the 2024 season. Look up his WAA on Baseball Reference and it says 0.0 - exactly league average performance.

If he’s league average, why does everyone on the site and in the organization think he sucked?

Any conversation at TD since he went to St. Paul about him returning to the Show?

His “average” could be reasonable but really good for 3.5 weeks and terrible for 7 weeks is not what Teams want from Eddie or any player.

Bottom line is he’s in AAA with no clear path back to 2B or anywhere else, particularly with Castro playing everyday now and with Brooks Lee in the picture.

This isn’t some personal vendetta …..he was underperforming big time, regardless of what WAA says on Baseball Reference.

[DJL44]

7 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

If he’s league average, why does everyone on the site and in the organization think he sucked?

Any conversation at TD since he went to St. Paul about him returning to the Show?

His “average” could be reasonable but really good for 3.5 weeks and terrible for 7 weeks is not what Teams want from Eddie or any player.

Bottom line is he’s in AAA with no clear path back to 2B or anywhere else, particularly with Castro playing everyday now and with Brooks Lee in the picture.

This isn’t some personal vendetta …..he was underperforming big time, regardless of what WAA says on Baseball Reference.

Why? Recency bias, for one. He was definitely trending down when he was demoted but he also was one of the only players hitting worth a damn in April. Games in April still count in the standings. Even as he was trending down and struggling he was still picking up walks which is an underrated skill. There are a few posters here who just hate Julien for some reason. Others are apoplectic about strikeouts.

Castro has definitely taken the position. He's having a phenomenal year and he probably brings the most value to the team playing regularly at 2B for the near future.

I don't think the door is closed for Julien. He has an OBP of .387 in AAA (.539 over the last week!) because he has an elite batting eye. If he can make the adjustment to pitches down and in he's going to be right back in the major leagues. It took Wallner a month to make adjustments and he's crushing pitches now. 

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Why? Recency bias, for one. He was definitely trending down when he was demoted but he also was one of the only players hitting worth a damn in April. Games in April still count in the standings. Even as he was trending down and struggling he was still picking up walks which is an underrated skill. There are a few posters here who just hate Julien for some reason. Others are apoplectic about strikeouts.

Castro has definitely taken the position. He's having a phenomenal year and he probably brings the most value to the team playing regularly at 2B for the near future.

I don't think the door is closed for Julien. He has an OBP of .387 in AAA (.539 over the last week!) because he has an elite batting eye. If he can make the adjustment to pitches down and in he's going to be right back in the major leagues. It took Wallner a month to make adjustments and he's crushing pitches now. 

As I said, there’s no vendetta. I expected Julien to be one of the top 3-4 hitters on the Club going into the season. He looked great for a few weeks but then seemed to continually struggle. There’s no ignoring what he did in April, however, his good April numbers prop up the next 7 weeks and they were not good. If his OBP in April was .350 (guessing) his overall when he got sent down was .309……from late April on his OBP had to average. sub .300.

Glad to hear he’s improving his numbers in St. Paul ……,I still think he’s our best option at 2B long term with Lee at 3B and Lewis in LF…..2025.

I’d like to see some sustained high level in St. Paul & maybe he’s done enough to be back up in 3 weeks?

[Shaitan]

Calling a person LVP is in poor taste in any context.

[Schmoeman5]

27 minutes ago, Shaitan said:

Calling a person LVP is in poor taste in any context.

The headline said, handing out 1st half awards. I didn't know there was a "LVP" Award. What does it look like? A half eaten hotdog? Or is it an old trophy of a hitter with a taped bat? 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

22 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Vazquez defense puts him honorable mention and Farmer wins, although Julien and Kiriloff are vying for Most Disappointing Player.  So much expectations and so little performance on the field.  

Mike, I agree about Vazquez. His defense and field leadership and his handling of the pitching staff are undervalued in this article. If not Vazquez, who would be the alternate catcher? This also adds to his value to the Twins. There is no one else to do his job.

[Major League Ready]

16 hours ago, RpR said:

He was not worth much in the Bigs, or in the Minors.

I recall you saying the same thing about Miranda.

[Karbo]

13 hours ago, old nurse said:

Farmer has been hitting just below league average by WOBA since May1. He isn’t going anywhere.

That may be, but the results have looked pretty anemic. 

[Shaitan]

9 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

The headline said, handing out 1st half awards. I didn't know there was a "LVP" Award. What does it look like? A half eaten hotdog? Or is it an old trophy of a hitter with a taped bat? 

a dunce hat

[RpR]

5 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I recall you saying the same thing about Miranda.

This year, I have said, good bat, no glove.

[Major League Ready]

7 minutes ago, RpR said:

This year, I have said, good bat, no glove.

Last winter / spring you were on the same negative vibe you have with Miranda.  You tend to view any player that is not a plus defender as not belonging on a ML roster.  

[wabene]

23 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

I have no problem pointing at Griffin Jax (one of my favorites) as the reason for the loss…..,no way you can come into the game and walk anyone in their line-up other than possibly Rodriguez. He pitched like he has Dylan Florio’s stuff…..it was ridiculous and it set up all the upheaval!

I get guys aren’t perfect but he has pitch after pitch to set things right and Miranda had a weird play with a guy crossing in front of him, etc. ……One Play…….sn unearned run but the situation should not have come about IMO.

Jax had 4 days off before that outing. He looked a little rusty at first to me. Definitely not sharp. He got dialed in as the inning went along.

[jkcarew]

Correa’s been the MVP, and IMO, it’s not that close. Strange to allude to “a hot few weeks” with him…he’s been very good offensively all season. And then there’s the defense at the premium position of SS.

Some good stories with Castro and Miranda especially.

I put both Lewis and Buxton in the TBD category. Can either or both play regularly going forward? I want to say over the coarse of a full season, Lewis is your MVP. But, in addition to the health, can he maintain the elite production. And can Buxton…in the event he is able to complete a season…gain some semblance of consistency with the bat?

Ryan is a star if he can “simply” keep the ball in the yard at an average rate. Not really that easy given his style of aggressively challenging hitters…which I love.

[RpR]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Last winter / spring you were on the same negative vibe you have with Miranda.  You tend to view any player that is not a plus defender as not belonging on a ML roster.  

Miranda stunk all around last year.

[old nurse]

9 hours ago, Karbo said:

That may be, but the results have looked pretty anemic. 

Anemic, by your definition then is 1/3 of the batters who are qualified statically..  Anemic would be  66% of anybody who has swung a bat in a game before today . Don’t like the numbers I post you can look them up

[Major League Ready]

16 hours ago, RpR said:

Miranda stunk all around last year.

That's the point.  You wrote him off just as you are writing off Julien, Wallner and anyone else that's not a 5+ year veteran.  You really don't seem to grasp that developing young players is a prerequisite to success for this team.  You literally root against the team doing what is most crucial to success.   Trying looking around the league at the other teams outside the top ten in revenue that are successful.  How were those teams constructed?  They are absolutely dominated by young talent with a few veterans for leadership.

[RpR]

14 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

That's the point.  You wrote him off just as you are writing off Julien, Wallner and anyone else that's not a 5+ year veteran.  You really don't seem to grasp that developing young players is a prerequisite to success for this team.  You literally root against the team doing what is most crucial to success.   Trying looking around the league at the other teams outside the top ten in revenue that are successful.  How were those teams constructed?  They are absolutely dominated by young talent with a few veterans for leadership.

We have had enough Hicks, Rooker, Badoo (dumped before he showed his lack of talent) Celestino, Kirilloff, Blankenhorn rookies that I have no reason to be  a cheerleader for wannbes, especially if their lack of adapting to the above AAA level puts a hole in the defense.

I like Cave, Willie Mays Hayes Gordon , Astudillo, Castro, Stevenson, Sano, but their stars shone bright in AAA, briefly in the Prozs, for most , and faded.

All the blather here about some wonder kid that is better than what they have has been pretty much a lot of Bollocks, yet they keep on trashing what ever veteran they say is blocking their wonder kid from comng up to find out the pros are a school of hard knocks, where if you do not cut it, you will be sent back or traded before they hurt the team even more.

Right now Lewis is learning what happens when pro pitchers adapt to your style and you do not adapt to them quick enough.

I hope not , but I read more than one article online about rookies that hit the Bigs with record breaking gusto and never had another season above average and some just plain did not stay at average level.

At this point IF Miranda can keep up his level of over all play, he may be the regular at 3rd and Lewis the fill in as Lewis is a less good fielder than Miranda.

 

[yeahyabetcha]

On 6/29/2024 at 10:06 AM, LambchoP said:

Castro and Miranda have improved and helped save this team in a big way. Also nice to see Buxton and Correa playing to their abilities. If this team is going to seriously make a playoff push, both Vasquez and Farmer need to go, ASAP. Vasquez is on the roster solely for his defense, but his defense just cost us a game. Offensively he's as automatic of an out as you can get. Any replacement at all would be better. And as far as Farmer goes, he's a wasted roster spot. Especially when you consider Brooks Lee is ready to take the everyday second base job. I really don't understand what they're waiting for...

Kyle Farmer isn’t the everyday 2nd baseman currently, Castro is.  Lee would be taking way more at bats away from him than Farmer