Week in Review: Another Backslide

[jishfish]

If anyone wants a good listen, the Talkin' Yanks episode from last night captured my frustrations with this Twins team nearly perfectly. The inconsistency in decision making, general lack of process, and unwillingness to put your best possible team out there every day is maddening with this team. They refuse to admit when they've made a mistake, and when they do decide to move on it's about 2 months too late and only when they're backed into a corner.

I love the Twins, but I can not stand this team or the product they've put on the field for the last 2+ years. It feels legitimately insulting to fans to basically say "we know better than you" and just continue to run Joey Gallo/Gary Sanchez/Dylan Bundy/etc out there day after day.

[FritzDahmus]

This means nothing --- but we could be Padres or Mets fans..........

With those lineups and the money they spent......year in and year out this happens to those clubs......not a one year thing.

[Dave Borton]

3 audible groans from Mille Lacs you should have been able to hear even in the cities.

• Hitting Kepler for a .259 Farmer, who is 3-1 on the day. Polanco (dependable in the clutch) and Castro (4-2 on the day) to follow. Keep the ball rolling. All 3 have higher career OBP than Kepler. Quit playing the big, unpredictable punch of Kepler.
• Hitting Gallo for Vazquez. Go for it - hit Jeffers, .281/.823. I needn't repeat Gallo's stats, or maybe I do for Baldelli.
• Getting 1 run off an 87-88mph FB. Good grief.

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, lukeduke1980 said:

Correa is 4 for 22 with 1 run scored,  0 RBI in the 5 game skid.  He had seemed to be providing a spark at the top of the order but obviously has cooled down.  

Without Kirilloff, Rocco may need to recalculate the top of the lineup. Is a return to Kepler in the cards? Kepler, Julien, Polanco, Correa, Buxton, Wallner, Jeffers, Castro, Solano.

[farmerguychris]

I was on the fence about being buyers or sellers - Now, I'm in the seller column.

We won't be able to trade for enough players to win in the postseason if our regulars can't even win 1 game against someone like the Royals.

Trade away expiring contracts and build for next year.

We could still back into the playoffs, maybe even win a game (reasonable goal for the Twins) and hopefully benefit next season from our guys who could simply walk after this year.

[Florida Flash]

I dont know if the team is this bad or if it is the leadership. Maybe rather than replace/reshuffle a bunch of the players, the team gets rid of the mathematicians (FO and Rocco) and hire some baseball people. They have been here for 4 years and the team seems to get better players, but loses more and more. Who is making out the batting lineup. Rocco? The FO? A computer somewhere?

[joefish]

I can't buy the arm fatigue issue. Starting Pitchers pitching 5 or 6 innings every 5 days?

Remember when teams had 3 man starting rotations? Or 4 if they were lucky?  

 

[joefish]

I can't buy the arm fatigue issue. Starting Pitchers pitching 5 or 6 innings every 5 days?

Remember when teams had 3 man starting rotations? Or 4 if they were lucky?  

 

[Dave Borton]

3 minutes ago, joefish said:

I can't buy the arm fatigue issue...

 

While I do not disagree with your premise, I have often wondered what speed pitchers were throwing in years before the radar gun. Is our (FOs as well) fascination with speed shortening the pitchers endurance as well as increasing injury?

I know I am veering OT.

[Major League Ready]

16 hours ago, rv78 said:

I agree something needs to change but it has to start with the FO and include the Manager and coaches. The direction we have seen since they have taken over isn't going in the right direction. Weren't they suppose to build this team into a perrienial contender. So far all we've gotten is a perrenial pretender.

The FO only has themselves to blame for this mess. Extended part-timer Buxton for $15M. Signed an over-rated Correa for $33+M. Signed a worthless hitter in Gallo for $11M and kept another crappy hitter in Kepler for $8.5M. Let's see they are hitting a combined .213 for $68 MILLION. Gee, I wonder why this team can't win games when they need to. DUH!

 

A lot of people were adamant they resign Buxton.  (I wanted him too)  The posts basically demanded it of the FO and ownership.  Remember the posts chastising the FO because they posters felt it was an insult that the original offers did not start with a $150M guarantee plus incentives?  Same basic thing with Correa, posters were almost universally in favor of singing Correa even when the market was 10+ years and $300M+.  So, to posts what the hell were they thinking is rather convenient.

[Whitey333]

This team has been stagnant over 2+ years.  They play lackluster, boring, undisciplined baseball.  That is apparently what this manager and FO are trying to sell to the public as good baseball.  Unfortunately I don't see much change for the better.  If we don't win the division this year, we need a complete change of management and coaching.  They have told us for three seasons now that out winning window is open.  We sure missed the boat there.  With ownership signing off on big contracts, and having the highest team payroll ever, perhaps it's time to quit calling them cheap and put the blame on those running the team and hold them accountable.

[Fred]

16 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I sure hope something changes.

This team will get you addicted to hopium. "I hope that light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train" 

[hitterscount]

We are 2/3 into the season, there is little to no hope of this team being anything other than a train wreck. I would like to know how many games have been lost with a QS posted… insane how bad this offense has been.

The Royals series is a new low, worse than the Atlanta debacle. As long as Rocco continues to make meaningful decisions we are looking at the same incompetence. Under his leadership we are fundamentally doomed, he is the first piece that needs to go, followed by several other underperforming players.

Realistically we should be moving all expiring contracts, but does anyone trust the FO…. This organization is just spinning their tires

[Bob Twins Fan Since 61]

My view is the huge underperformance of Correa and Buxton is the biggest factor.  Why the Twins record is what it is.  If they cannot elevate their play to past performance levels.  The team has no chance to be a competitive play-off team this year.  Any moves they make at the trade deadline should be based on an honest assessment of Correa and Buxton's play for remainder of the season.  I still have some hope but it's getting harder by the day.  Since they both have long term contracts and no-trade clauses.  The 2024 team will be heavily dependent on them getting them turned around also.  

[joefish]

39 minutes ago, davidborton said:

While I do not disagree with your premise, I have often wondered what speed pitchers were throwing in years before the radar gun. Is our (FOs as well) fascination with speed shortening the pitchers endurance as well as increasing injury?

I know I am veering OT.

Lots to be considered. I sound like an old schooler because I am one. 

I wonder how these modern bigger and stronger hitters would fare against old school pitchers.  Almost certainly the increased speed fascination will take a toll, but  today's arms are doing less and less work over the long haul. All of the TJ surgeries scream at something.

[Blyleven2011]

16 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

You are accurate. But the trouble is, I don't know what to say anymore near the same issues over and over. We win and look like we're ready to take off and then we tank. We don't just lose. We lose to the worst teams and lose bad. 

 

What is the solution? It's just gotten to the point where the obvious is still there. Gallo, has been a comment source for months for nothing has been done. The bullpen has been overused and short on arms and now are spent. Starters is coming up short too. I sure hope something changes.

I sure hope things change too ...

We need a new direction  in the plan , FO and roccos  interpretation  of baseball  isn't working on a consistent basis , I think we have longer losing streaks than winning streaks ...

We need a change for the players sake because with the way they are performing there are no players to consider for the Twins hall of fame of the HOF  period  ...

I know you have been  a fan of our beloved fan since 61 ...

Look at the hall of fame players Calvin had playing for us  , the cheap b**terd ...

[mikelink45]

31 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

I sure hope things change too ...

We need a new direction  in the plan , FO and roccos  interpretation  of baseball  isn't working on a consistent basis , I think we have longer losing streaks than winning streaks ...

We need a change for the players sake because with the way they are performing there are no players to consider for the Twins hall of fame of the HOF  period  ...

I know you have been  a fan of our beloved fan since 61 ...

Look at the hall of fame players Calvin had playing for us  , the cheap b**terd ...

You are right - Buxton will probably be the one who gets the honor, but Buxton is more wish than reality.  

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, Florida Flash said:

I dont know if the team is this bad or if it is the leadership. Maybe rather than replace/reshuffle a bunch of the players, the team gets rid of the mathematicians (FO and Rocco) and hire some baseball people. They have been here for 4 years and the team seems to get better players, but loses more and more. Who is making out the batting lineup. Rocco? The FO? A computer somewhere?

Up in the office they have a dart board with the position players ,  

They throw darts to see who gets to play  , then rethrow  the darts on the decidedly startèrs to see what the batting order is ... 

I have no confidence and lack respect for the plan the FO and Rocco  try to pass off as quality baseball  ...

[Hubie29]

And to think I got thumbs down from a few people a couple weeks ago after I said Rocco is a terrible manager. I can't even follow this team as long as I have to watch or listen to him, and I am an old schooler back to the Carew, Oliva Killer days. Just can't stand this team or manager. 

[Blyleven2011]

Week in reverse again ....

One step forward and three steps back ....

Really , 2 losses to Seattle and 3 losses to Kansas city  ...

Kiriloff injury is going to hurt 

are we Contenders or pretenders ...

FO are pretenders that their plan will work and put fans in the stands  ...

Fans want to win the division and raise the divisional flag  , what would be proud of that if we win the division with a 500 record  ...

I don't like following losers but I have followed the Twins faithfully  since the sixties ...

This team is contenders with the starting pitching ...

The team are pretenders with the lineup and their plan of execution  ...

I love the Twins but we should sell some at the deadline and stop being pretenders , play the younger players and prospects and if they finish the season and win the divisional flag at a 500 record , that would be something to be proud of and a step in the right direction for 2024 ...

 

[HokieRif]

Twins win a season series against the Yankees and Astros, and get swept by one of the worst teams ever, in the same season.

Twins:

[howeda7]

My only real hope for this season is for Derek Falvey and Rocco to be fired by November 1st.

[JD-TWINS]

16 hours ago, Loops said:

Tired pitchers? Too many strikeouts? No consistency in hitting? On the one hand I am glad we did not trade away future prospects as we have done in the past to try and upgrade this team. The Twins have way too many holes for a one or two player fix. Even if we do win the weak Central, we are going nowhere. So "why"? The question is what to do for next year. I think we need to bring up a lot of the prospects this year to evaluate whether or not they will be an asset to the team moving forward. We need bullpen help. We need a better hitting philosophy. Do we need a front office change? Very possibly. Manager change? Also possible. Their evaluation of talent leaves something to be desired. While we do have a much improved pitching staff, they traded away any hope of a reliable offense. Sadly, it is not a quick fix. Our only saving grace is that we are in the Central.

Very disappointing to say the least.

Could just agree but can’t give up with 50 plus games left & a Division lead.

Last week we scored 7 - 7 - 5 - 7 runs in 4 consecutive games and lost all 4. Starters have been weak (other than Maeda) for 2 weeks and we have had multiple poor outings from our Pen! Still 2 games over .500 since the break and we are going into play a team that’s looking to dismantle itself in St. louis. Get some bullpen help!

Need a couple decent starts and some timely hitting for a couple days. We’re OK!

Need to use Kuechel to get some starters needed rest.

Would probably be good to DFA Gallo & be done with that drama once Kirilloff is back next week.

I really see value in trying to get a return for  Polanco & Larnach. Gotta get a really good reliever for those two guys! Or we trade 1 of them & a prospect for a number 3-4 guy out of somebody’s Pen. We don’t need perfection nor a “closer”, just a couple experienced guys for depth!!!!

RP options for about the 6th time in a week:

Hand/Suter/Raley/Fulmer/……,middle relief guys with San Diego, other than Hader, etc.

  

[JD-TWINS]

16 hours ago, Rosterman said:

So Wallner is showing that HE CAN replace Gallo, in both the home run and strikeout department.

Is Gallo safe, though, becuase we need a first baseman?

What do you do if the pitcehrs wear out., Do you send Ober, Duran, even Ryan to the minors to just pitch some less stressful short outings? But who do you bring up in return and also where do you find the 40-man roster spot for the "Return of Dobnak."

 

I hate to say it but I do think Gallo is safe, just in case Kirilloff doesn’t hold up (1B). I think they’ll IL guys - maybe even Gallo for 10 days to carry him to September roster expansion. Will drop him in October - probably only 12 pitchers in October!!

Ober - Ryan - Gray - López should all get starts skipped either with a short option move on the younger guys or 10 day IL stint for Gray?? Some way to either have Kuechel or Varland spell these guys from August 1 through September 15.

Maeda has a rebuilt arm & has already sat enough in ‘23.

If they get hot - there may be room for rest days in last week or two of season if Division is locked up………seems like a stretch at this point!!