Twins 8, Dodgers 9 (12 Innings): Back and Forth Battle Ultimately Ends with a Loss

[John Belinski]

2 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

I agree with all the negativity directed at the umpires.  Cuzzi is, and always has been one of the worst umpires in MLB.  That being said, all you hear Baldelli talking about is how the umpiring cost them the game. That is the Twins refrain.  If you lose a close game blame it on the umpires.  What about leaving 15 runners on base?  What about a woefil 4-17 with runners in scoring position?  What about bases loaded and no outs in the 10th and only scoring one run? And that was on a walk.  What about the winning run scoring on a bases loaded walk?  He was in an 0-30 slump.  How can you not throw strikes to him?  How about a lineup that features Gallo at leadoff.  Leadoff mind you is not where a lifetime. 199 hitter should be in the batting order.  Go

There is just no excuse for walking in the winning run and when the batter is in a 0-30 slump it just makes no sense.  Either the manager or catcher or pitcher was the reason we lost this game. 

[John Belinski]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

I don't really understand this kind of comment. Do you expect Rocco to rip his own players in the post-game? That's just not how modern managing works. It's always been super-overrated as a motivational tactic, and ends up being counter-productive.

Who calls the pitches? that would be the catcher. Lopez did a great job in the 11th, and couldn't quite hold it in the 12th when he didn't get a borderline call on the 5th pitch of the AB (considering Cuzzi's "strike zone"). It's not like he couldn't find the strike zone at all.

I don't expect Rocco to rip his pitcher, but to say he pitched well makes no sense. Was the catcher calling for strikes?  Why didn't the catcher call for a fast ball if Lopez was having a hard time throwing other pitches? 

[VivaBomboRivera!]

54 minutes ago, h2oface said:

So far he is bad 1/3 (3 out of 9 starts) of the time. That is earned and notable, and a good bit more often than “every now and then “ in my book. 

Please define "bad."  And while we're at it, let's look up his run support.

[IaBeanCounter]

LastOnePicked  1,852

• Verified Member

Posted 40 minutes ago

"Wasn't Sonny Gray getting these exact calls in his start against the Cubs? I didn't see any complaining from the Twins faithful then. You gotta rise above and win games. The rest is noise. The last thing I want from - or for - this team is to get caught up in the victim mentality. Toughen up. Score runs, Hold leads. Win games. Period."

I looked up the umpire scorecard for the first Cubs game.  He was consistently bad, but overall favored the Cubs. 

[Beast]

That game is why people think sports are rigged.  And they’re right.  That’s just blatant.  Whether it’s an unconscious or not.  The umpire took one of the hottest hitters in baseball out of the game with the bases loaded in extra innings.

Same ump, if I recall, that turned the Yankees playoff series on its head by Joe Mauer’s clear double a foul ball.

If the Twins even rarely got these calls at the expense of the Dodgers or Yankees, I’d say fair play.  Win some lose some.  But, there is such clear bias at work there, I can only conclude it’s flat out rigged.

[CoasterProductions]

A challenge system for balls and strikes needs to at least be implemented this is an absolute joke 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Cuzzi missed two calls, but blaming the umpire for last night's loss misses the real reasons.

 

 

Absurd.  Baseball games are routinely very close.  Expanding the strike zone by a foot on either side of the plate in extra innings with the bases loaded, then shrinking it back the next half inning, isn’t just missing an inconsequential call.  That’s changing the game entirely.  That’s NBA level manipulative foul garbage right there.

Let’s say he did just happen to “miss” those calls at the unbelievably important juncture of the game.  The ones he somehow got right for Lopez’s walk off walk.  He should be in the unemployment line before the game ended last night.  That’s a level of incompetence that is unacceptable (if “missed”).  

There’s a big difference in missing a pitch on the black that a computer called slightly different.  This was multiple pitches in the most important AB of the game.  Look at the WPA swing as a result.  An ump swinging a game that drastically is a major, major issue.

Absolutely ridiculous, IMO, to write that off as a non-contributing factor, and we should’ve done more.  Could we have done more?  Sure.  But, we shouldn’t have had to.  That’s a huge issue, and fans should rightfully be pissed off and expect some consequence.  

[Schmoeman5]

Watched the whole game. And I can tell you that yes the umpires calls on Kiriloffs AB effectively took the bat out of his hands, but that certainly is not what lost the game. There were several key moments. I believe Gallo was subbed out way too early. But Rocco nor anyone else anticipated a 12 inning game. Unlucky Jax? Even the outs he got were hard hit balls. Duran and Lopez were called on for 2 innings and they both cruised through their 1st inning and faltered in their 2nd. Durans 0-2 pitch was just too fat and got smoked. And Lopez walking a guy that strikes out 60% of the time isn't good. But Rocco does get credit too. His pinch running for Correa was a great move. Only Taylor scores on Buxtons hit. But to me from the 10th inning on after Bickford walked in the go ahead run, Twins hitters helped him out too many times swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. I'm glad they battled back. Today they face Kershaw who will be pitching on emotion and adrenaline. 

[Mortimerkenny21]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

And if a mouse had wings, he could fly.

[Fornasiere-ite]

Does this game just not feel like a typical snake-bit Minnesota sports franchise outcome? Grit, resilience, players from all parts of the lineup contributing in big moments to get us back in the game, only to be kicked between the legs in the biggest moment of the game. 

Cuzzie rewarding Bickford with two horrible calls, after he couldn't find the strikezone seconds before is frustrating, what is more frustrating is Donnie "Barrels" not putting the ball in play in the prior at bat. The infield was giving up a run for the double play, and our "surefire" contact guy cant make contact?

Lastly, I think that Vasquez has been doing a poor job of pitch calling when Duran is out there. Duran had the juices flowing last night and was pumping gas, and J.D. Martinez was not close on the first two fastballs he saw. Obviously, Duran missed his spot... but that's not the point. The whole league, at this point, knows he has a filthy splitter and breaking ball, and it makes 103 just a little bit faster when hitters have that in the back of their mind, especially a seasoned guy like J.D. I just thought it was a dumb pitch call,  at the wrong time, with bad execution. 

And now I'm sleep deprived at work because I stayed up to be disappointed. oh well, I guess its only one game.  

[USAFChief]

51 minutes ago, Beast said:

Absurd.  Baseball games are routinely very close.  Expanding the strike zone by a foot on either side of the plate in extra innings with the bases loaded, then shrinking it back the next half inning, isn’t just missing an inconsequential call.  That’s changing the game entirely.  That’s NBA level manipulative foul garbage right there.

Let’s say he did just happen to “miss” those calls at the unbelievably important juncture of the game.  The ones he somehow got right for Lopez’s walk off walk.  He should be in the unemployment line before the game ended last night.  That’s a level of incompetence that is unacceptable (if “missed”).  

There’s a big difference in missing a pitch on the black that a computer called slightly different.  This was multiple pitches in the most important AB of the game.  Look at the WPA swing as a result.  An ump swinging a game that drastically is a major, major issue.

Absolutely ridiculous, IMO, to write that off as a non-contributing factor, and we should’ve done more.  Could we have done more?  Sure.  But, we shouldn’t have had to.  That’s a huge issue, and fans should rightfully be pissed off and expect some consequence.  

Solano's AB just prior to Kirilloff's comes to mind, as does the 0-2 pitch to Martinez that tied the game in the bottom of the 10th. Lots of things. Even in Kirilloff's AB he had a great pitch to hit a sac fly on 0-1, and missed it.

 

 

[rickyriolo]

Twins will get swept by the Dodgers and will be lucky to win 1 game against the Angels. Twins do not play very well on the West Coast for some reason, 

[Nine of twelve]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Cuzzi missed two calls, but blaming the umpire for last night's loss misses the real reasons.

Obviously there is never one and only one reason for a loss. But in this case I think the two obvious missed calls on the Kirilloff strikeout had a very large effect. Moreover, Kirilloff did not make a mistake in that at-bat. Cuzzi did. I think it's very, very likely that the Twins would have scored at least one more run in the top of the tenth if not for those blown calls. And that would have won the game. Cuzzi's poor umpiring is a reason for the loss that is just as real as any other reason.

[h2oface]

3 hours ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

Please define "bad."  And while we're at it, let's look up his run support.

The the 3 bad starts, 14.2 innings, 16 earned. That is an ERA of 9.82 for those three starts. It doesn't matter what the run support is, but if you like, you can handle that part. (I don't know how to - would it be 8 runs last night for the game? Or just while he was in the game? His performance is independent of run support, regardless). We are talking his performance. Those 3 are bad in any book, I would think. Combined of all starts this year, he is at 4.00 ERA. Pretty much where his career ERA stands (3.94). You are your record, not an opinion, eh? He is a valuable member of the staff, but color me not that enamored, and not thinking he is the best we have. Good luck to us in the future.

Lopez has 3 bad and 2 good starts since he signed his extension. Maybe even more luck for the future.

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, h2oface said:

There was some great baseball tonight. A real heart breaker. 11 straight losses to the Dodgers. This one, on a walk off walk to a .125 hitter with a 3-2 count with the bases loaded on 2 IBBs and a free runner in the 12th. And Trace Thompson hasn't got a hit since April 17!

Agree - Lopez has electric stuff but he is either clueless or has no guts due to lack of command. Cannot walk in the winning run, particularly after you load the bases on purpose.

Kiriloff got screwed on balls & strikes and that was probably the difference.

Had a real shot though with one out & an 0-2 count to Martinez. Morneau & most other astute baseball heads wanted an even higher 3rd fastball to Martinez but whoever is calling the game likes to see all of Duran’s pitch repertoire. We had him & he throws a breaking ball over middle of plate for an 0-2 single. Bad baseball!

[JD-TWINS]

36 minutes ago, h2oface said:

The the 3 bad starts, 14.2 innings, 16 earned. That is an ERA of 9.82 REA for those three starts. It doesn't matter what the run support is, but if you like, you can handle that part. (I don't know how to - would it be 8 runs last night for the game? Or just while he was in the game? His performance is independent of run support, regardless). We are talking his performance. That is bad is any book, I would think. Combined of all starts this year, he is at 4.00 ERA. Pretty much where his career ERA stands (3.94). You are your record, not an opinion, eh? He is a valuable member of the staff, but color me not that enamored, and not thinking he is the best we have. Good luck to us in the future.

Lopez has 3 bad and 2 good starts since he signed his extension. Maybe even more luck for the future.

He’s what we traded for…….a #2-#3 level starter. His change-up gets him lots of adulation around the league but his other stuff is good not great. He can’t miss with sweeper nor fastball.

[David Maro]

This one was lost in the first inning. Watching Lopez not able to get off the field. Smith going deep on the first pitch,Muncy having a 10 pitch at bat before going deep. Look for more of the same tonight because the Dodgers don't chase bad pitches like the Twins.

[h2oface]

We now lead MLB in Strikeouts! On all fronts. Hitters and Pitchers. Hitters tied for the lead at 399 (in 1418 ABs, 1596 PAs), and Pitchers with 415. 

[jimbo92107]

7 hours ago, Old Twins Cap said:

If Cuzzi were consistent, Thompson gets called out and they play on.

That's the beef here, Cuzzi fundamentally decided the outcome of the game.

Maybe over the course of the season, that evens out.  In reality, the level of the miss here is so egregious that it will never even out.

The Twins never got evened out on Cuzzi's call in New York in the playoffs in '04.  In my mind, I still see the cameras zooming in on the exact spot where the ball landed:  you could see the imprint on the fair side of the dirt portion of the line -- Mauer's double becoming simply another foul ball;  Gardy in the dugout oblivious to the awfulness of the call.

That was Phil Cuzzi, too?? The infamous Mauer foul ball double. Ball was two feet inside the line, ump calls it foul. After that, Mauer was out easily. That one blown call convinced me that umps were being bribed. Figures it would be Cuzzi. 

[USAFChief]

4 hours ago, jimbo92107 said:

That was Phil Cuzzi, too?? The infamous Mauer foul ball double. Ball was two feet inside the line, ump calls it foul. After that, Mauer was out easily. That one blown call convinced me that umps were being bribed. Figures it would be Cuzzi. 

For the record, Mauer singled in the infamous 11th inning Cuzzi "foul ball" incident. So Mauer was on 1st, not 2nd, leading off the top of the 11th.

The Twins loaded the bases with no outs that inning but didn't score. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200910090.shtml

[VivaBomboRivera!]

7 hours ago, h2oface said:

The the 3 bad starts, 14.2 innings, 16 earned. That is an ERA of 9.82 for those three starts. It doesn't matter what the run support is, but if you like, you can handle that part. (I don't know how to - would it be 8 runs last night for the game? Or just while he was in the game? His performance is independent of run support, regardless). We are talking his performance. Those 3 are bad in any book, I would think. Combined of all starts this year, he is at 4.00 ERA. Pretty much where his career ERA stands (3.94). You are your record, not an opinion, eh? He is a valuable member of the staff, but color me not that enamored, and not thinking he is the best we have. Good luck to us in the future.

Lopez has 3 bad and 2 good starts since he signed his extension. Maybe even more luck for the future.

He also owns a WHIP or 1.07.  Game logs are here.  Better he's with the Twins than pitching against them.

[h2oface]

15 minutes ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

He also owns a WHIP or 1.07.  Game logs are here.  Better he's with the Twins than pitching against them.

Keep digging and cherry picking. I know where to find the game logs. I used them. You asked me to define "bad" and I gave you what you wanted. Ha. I guess it depends on which game pitching against them. The three or the 6 so far this season. Three of them were awful. Like I said and will repeat, he is a valuable member of the staff........ but color me not that enamored, and not thinking he is the best we have. 

[VivaBomboRivera!]

1 hour ago, h2oface said:

Like I said and will repeat, he is a valuable member of the staff

We can clink glasses on this while we watch Bailey Ober shut down the Dodger lineup today.  Cheers!