5 Scenarios That Could Open Up Regular Playing Time for Alex Kirilloff

[Craig Arko]

I think a short kick-in-the-behind stint in AAA may do Miranda and Larnach both some good. I'd be okay if one went down for Farmer and the other for Kiriloff next week. Then in another ten days see how they're all doing, see where Lewis is at, and see if Buxton is tried out in the field.

[Trov]

4 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

The OP suggests that it’s easy enough to find a spot on the 26-man — option Castro. But that’s not going to happen. The Twins like his defensive versatility and AK isn’t a fit there. Besides, barring other injuries, I’d think Castro’s spot is pretty much reserved for Farmer’s activation on Tuesday or soon thereafter. 

So AK needs someone else’s spot on the roster. Three primary options have been named, either here or in other threads. Option Larnach, DFA Gordon or DFA Solano. (Or yeah, trade Kepler and his 108 OPS+ and great defense, blah, blah, blah.)

There’s another option I haven’t seen and that’s to option Miranda and use Farmer/Solano at 3B for a time. Miranda’s OPS+ is currently at 69, and he seems to be flailing at the plate. I don’t see many games, but was able to watch the Sox games, and he had at least a couple defensive plays that didn’t result in errors, but were shaky or poor decisions. He’d likely be back at the next injury, but it sure seems he could use a reset.

I agree with the possibility of sending down Miranda for a bit.  He is not hitting much at all, and has been chasing some bad pitches up in zone over and over.  Larnach has been struggling as well.  However, the one issue with sending down Miranda is AK will still have to take a spot in the line up between Larnach, Gallo, or Kepler, assuming Buck will not move back to CF any time soon.  Really, they all are left handed hitters playing similar positions in varying level of defense.  One of them gets the Pine if all 4 are on the team, unless Twins try to move Gallo back to 3rd where he came up playing, but has not played there for years.  

If they go that route, then I would assume mostly Kepler gets to sit, depending on how he is hitting, because they will want Larnach to get regular at bats for most part.  So overall, I think Larnach will get sent down if he continues to struggle and AK shows he is healthy and can play each game without issue.  

We can still option Miranda for Farmer when he ready, or at minimum when Lewis comes back from his IL rehab.  I just do not see a point of having AK Larnach, Gallo, and Kepler all on MLB roster and all being healthy, if Buck is going to stay at DH, because one of the 4 have to sit every game.  Maybe you rotate them around to help make up for that. 

[arby58]

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Trade Kepler......or Larnach, either one. Get some young minor leaguers.

But neither will happen.....

yeah, it takes two to make a trade. Kepler's meh last couple of years have hollowed out his trade value, and Larnach's lack of power is also a problem for trade value of a corner outfielder.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I agree with you on Miranda.

I remember feeling the same way last year. 

On May 18th, 2022 - Miranda's had offensively bottomed out at .332 OPS with a .096 BA. 

May 18th was also the date that Correa returned from the disabled list and we sent down Royce Lewis to practice other positions for 12 days before returning to the big club on May 29th.  

On May 29th, it was determined that Royce had learned everything he could about other positions and Royce Lewis was recalled.

It was Miranda who was optioned to make room for Lewis.

Of course due to the Lewis injury... Miranda was called right back to the big club on May 30. That one day in the minors did him well because after one day in the minors he woke up and BOOM... he was suddenly a hitter.  

Perhaps we should try that alarm clock again. 😉

 

I watched him quite a bit on Milb TV and I have been a BIG supporter.  Last year and during this off-season I posted just how great he was after he was recalled.  Even in the minors, the announcers talked about his improved plate discipline being a big part of him breaking out.   It's frustrating because the lessons have not sticked.  I know it's hard to lay off a high fastball but for God sake, try letting some go when you have proven you can't hit when you do swing.  Pitchers are going to abuse him until he proves he won't swing at a pitch that is 4-8 inches above the strike zone.  

[JDubs]

While it sucks that AK is raking in AAA and there's really nowhere to put him on the big league club, after last year's horror show it is pretty nice to be having the exact opposite problem -- too many healthy, good players to fit onto the starting 9. This is a problem I'll take 10 times out of 10!

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

Since AK was recently optioned, they can’t recall him for 10 days, unless there is an injury. So, if anyone wants him up right now, the only way that happens is through injury. I’m not wishing for that, but I do hope that on May 10 he is activated, for anyone. There are choices that are not difficult to make. For Larnach makes the most sense, but I also like IT’s suggestion of Miranda, provided Farmer is already up. But I think, barring injury, Farmer returns first.

Yep... and honestly I am Ok if they hold him down in AAA a little longer to get him past super two status since a little longer is all it would take.

I know there is no guarantee that super two status will matter with Alex. We could call him up and watch him struggle while the arbitrators laugh at him. He could perform like we hope and we can extend him making super two status non-relevant. However, if Alex is what we hope he is and the arbitrators like what he is doing. The extra money you are paying him during his upcoming arbitration years will add up to a decent player to play along side him making the team stronger overall and that is important for a team with a budget and we all know that we have a budget. This is his last option year. His super two status can only be managed in our favor this year so let's just get it out of the way since it won't take that long.     

In the meantime, my current participation in this discussion is more of an overall feeling that our offense needs help today and tomorrow and the obvious realization that the current 26 man rosterr is not performing decently enough offensively to keep him down due to 26 man roster space or positional log jams. We need a hitter and a good one.  

Larnach should know that he has options remaining while Kirilloff is breathing down his neck and Miranda needs to wake up because he has options while Farmer is soon to return and Gordon can play 3B in a pinch. #chpettit19

An article stating that injury to a limited group of players who play a specific spot on the diamond are the 5 scenarios that lead to a Kirilloff call up makes no sense to me at all. 

There are very few Twins hitting the ball well enough to keep Kirilloff down in St. Paul at the moment but I'm ok with him staying just a bit for future arbitration considerations.     

[Riverbrian]

16 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I watched him quite a bit on Milb TV and I have been a BIG supporter.  Last year and during this off-season I posted just how great he was after he was recalled.  Even in the minors, the announcers talked about his improved plate discipline being a big part of him breaking out.   It's frustrating because the lessons have not sticked.  I know it's hard to lay off a high fastball but for God sake, try letting some go when you have proven you can't hit when you do swing.  Pitchers are going to abuse him until he proves he won't swing at a pitch that is 4-8 inches above the strike zone.  

You are absolutely right. I believe in him also but his chasing is horrible right now.

Honestly, Miranda was a light in the late season fog last year and I'm grateful he is one of us and I think he will find it again this year. I have high hopes that we got a hitter to help us out for years to come.   

In the meantime, Bruce Springsteen and I are not going to waste our summer praying in vain for a savior to rise up from these streets. We need more than a return of Miranda to Miranda like production to get where we need to get to. Miranda can't sit here and struggle while holding a roster spot from someone that might be able to join him in our quest.      

 

 

[chpettit19]

22 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Larnach should know that he has options remaining while Kirilloff is breathing down his neck and Miranda needs to wake up because he has options while Farmer is soon to return and Gordon can play 3B in a pinch. #chpettit19

 

If Miranda swings at 3 more balls over his head even though every living creature on the planet knows it's coming I'll be ready to put Gordon (or Gallo) at 3B fulltime!

[TopGunn#22]

It's too bad that they optioned Kirilloff to St. Paul meaning they need to wait 10 more days baring an injury.  But it really shouldn't be too difficult to find room for A.K.  Larnach is 7 strikeouts in a row and counting.  The team as a whole is just atrocious when it comes to situational hitting.  Kirilloff can't fix that by himself.  But as Farmer gets closer to a return the easy move is to DFA Solano who at 35 doesn't bring much defensive value and is an empty, pop-less batting average.  Flores brings much more to the table.

Gordon is their LH hitting CF option as is Gallo.  Here is a lineup against RH pitching:

C  Vazquez  1B  Kirilloff  2B  Polanco  SS Correa  3B  Miranda  LF  Gallo  CF  Gordon  RF  Kepler  DH  Buxton

Bench:  Jeffers C  Farmer  SS/3B/2B  Flores IF/OF  Taylor  OF  Larnach OF  

You've got to have Jeffers.  You've got to have Farmer.  You've got to have Taylor.  So if you have a bench of 13 hitters it comes down to Larnach or Flores.  I like the versatility Flores adds to the bench.  He can play 3B a little 2B if needed and outfield.  Larnach is only a corner outfielder and he still has options.  He also has Wallner breathing down his neck.  And don't forget that Lewis will be knocking on the door in a couple of months and Julien has already been up.  Larnach looks so lost at the plate that he needs a little St. Paul time to rediscover his swing.  

Kirilloff is raking in St. Paul.  It's no less stressful to his wrist to play there than it is at Target Field.  Get him up ASAP.

 

[tony&rodney]

Cinco de Maya and the Twins bats are ready to party. No reason to worry.

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

If Miranda swings at 3 more balls over his head even though every living creature on the planet knows it's coming I'll be ready to put Gordon (or Gallo) at 3B fulltime!

Atta Boy... I'm proud of you! 

[Major League Ready]

17 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

You are absolutely right. I believe in him also but his chasing is horrible right now.

Honestly, Miranda was a light in the late season fog last year and I'm grateful he is one of us and I think he will find it again this year. I have high hopes that we got a hitter to help us out for years to come.   

In the meantime, Bruce Springsteen and I are not going to waste our summer praying in vain for a savior to rise up from these streets. We need more than a return of Miranda to Miranda like production to get where we need to get to. Miranda can't sit here and struggle while holding a roster spot from someone that might be able to join him in our quest.      

 

 

I just don't know the answer.  There are not many AAA pitchers that will expose this weakness the way ML pitchers expose it, so I doubt AAA is the answer.  It opens a roster spot but it probably does not cure Miranda.   The frustrating thing is as Chpettit pointed out, everyone knows it's coming and he still swings at it.  It's just flat dumb.  Time for some coaching.

[Riverbrian]

44 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I just don't know the answer.  There are not many AAA pitchers that will expose this weakness the way ML pitchers expose it, so I doubt AAA is the answer.  It opens a roster spot but it probably does not cure Miranda.   

I think Miranda has to cure Miranda. 1 day in the minors didn't cure him last year.

That roster spot has value. If he's going to chase like this. Give someone else a chance to show that they won't chase and then maybe we will have added two non-chasers to the roster when Miranda figures it out.   

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Atta Boy... I'm proud of you! 

Maturing before TD's very eyes.

[Nick Nelson]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

So, you advocate hoping for injury to get AK up here now? I know that’s not exactly what you are saying, but I don’t think finding room is really that difficult, without injury, and shouldn’t be. However, barring injury, he’s not going to be recalled until the 10 days runs out. (May 9, 10?) Given that, I think Farmer will be up first. They need to send Miranda down for a reset. And when AK is ready, they need to send down Larnach. Those are the choices and they are not difficult, imo.

Where did I advocate "hoping" anyone should get hurt? There are a lot of people wanting to see AK up in the majors so I'm explaining what would need to happen to facilitate it in the short term. 

I don't personally think sending Larnach down to make room for Kirilloff is an easy choice. If going to Triple-A is the best thing for Larnach's development so be it, but I'm far from convinced that is true. The guy is 26, they're just going to make him sit in the minors and stagnate because he slumped for a bit? If he'd been truly horrible over the first month or looked as bad as Miranda it'd be another matter.

I'm sensitive to the idea that they should do wrong by one of their key young players to do right by another. Kirilloff is behind in line because of his injury rehab, plain and simple.

[Riverbrian]

33 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Maturing before TD's very eyes.

Articles like this paint the picture that it's strictly position to position considerations.

But... It's not... I just don't see it that way. Never have... never will. It's 26 man roster spot to 26 man roster spot consideration. 

If our SS gets hurt and our AAA SS is hitting .200 in St. Paul. Do we have to call up that SS or can we choose the AAA guy who is playing the best? 

I acknowledge that there could be a defensive loss when you shift players around defensively to accommodate the current needs of a team but that defensive loss is minimal when utilized occasionally compared to a consistent offensive loss using a roster spot on a guy chasing **** over his head. 

Meanwhile, over in L.A. Mookie Betts has played 8 games at 2B and 6 games at SS. To my knowledge, It hasn't hurt them one bit and it doesn't mean that Betts is now an infielder. 

  

[Squirrel]

4 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

Where did I advocate "hoping" anyone should get hurt? There

I said I know you aren’t advocating that but when your article is talking about finding room for AK, all your examples are of people getting injured. My point is, I think it’s not difficult to find room without anyone injuring themselvrs

[Nick Nelson]

Just now, Squirrel said:

I said I know you aren’t advocating that but when your article is talking about finding room for AK, all your examples are of people getting injured. My point is, I think it’s not difficult to find room without anyone injuring themselvrs

It is though. For the reasons I shared. Sending down Larnach is literally the only thing that would open up regular ABs right now and that strikes me as a short-sighted decision. 

[Squirrel]

9 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

It is though. For the reasons I shared. Sending down Larnach is literally the only thing that would open up regular ABs right now and that strikes me as a short-sighted decision. 

Well, I don’t think it’s short-sighted at all. I think it’s what Larnach needs unless Larnach starts hitting over the weekend. Again, then we’re waiting for injury to happen and I don’t like that option

[John Belinski]

Larnach is just not hitting. I think he has had 4 or 5 KO in last 2 games. Give Kir a chance to play since it appears he could not do any worse than Larnach.

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Articles like this paint the picture that it's strictly position to position considerations.

But... It's not... I just don't see it that way. Never have... never will. It's 26 man roster spot to 26 man roster spot consideration. 

If our SS gets hurt and our AAA SS is hitting .200 in St. Paul. Do we have to call up that SS or can we choose the AAA guy who is playing the best? 

I acknowledge that there could be a defensive loss when you shift players around defensively to accommodate the current needs of a team but that defensive loss is minimal when utilized occasionally compared to a consistent offensive loss using a roster spot on a guy chasing **** over his head. 

Meanwhile, over in L.A. Mookie Betts has played 8 games at 2B and 6 games at SS. To my knowledge, It hasn't hurt them one bit and it doesn't mean that Betts is now an infielder. 

  

I'll start by just saying let's not compare Nick Gordon, or anyone on the Twins, to Mookie Betts.

As for the general idea here, there's a lot of variables at play. Do they have someone capable of taking over at SS fulltime on the ML roster already? It's not necessarily always position to position considerations (this article is), but it's an ever changing puzzle and you need to make sure the pieces fit. The definition of "occasionally" also factors in.

Could Nick have chosen to present some situations that would be moving guys to positions they don't currently play? Sure. But that's pretty rarely done (unless you have a Mookie Betts) outside of injuries forcing it. Especially up the middle. There are limitations to what players can reasonably do. Correa goes down and you can't just plug Buxton into SS (full disclosure I've never seen Buxton field a grounder in the IF, but I assume he's not good enough to play SS in the bigs). So it's not just straight 26-man spot for 26-man spot, either. The Twins are full of guys who can't play up the middle.

[Craig Arko]

Pretty sure Farmer will be the backup SS.

[John Belinski]

11 minutes ago, John Belinski said:

Larnach is just not hitting. I think he has had 4 or 5 KO in last 2 games. Give Kir a chance to play since it appears he could not do any worse than Larnach.

I want to update my posting since I went back and looked at last 2 games. Larnach has struck out his last 7 at bats. He had 4 K's one game and then 3 K's in other game.  It certainly seems he is having a hitting problem and not helping the Twins. Let's give AK a chance.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

I'll start by just saying let's not compare Nick Gordon, or anyone on the Twins, to Mookie Betts.

As for the general idea here, there's a lot of variables at play. Do they have someone capable of taking over at SS fulltime on the ML roster already? It's not necessarily always position to position considerations (this article is), but it's an ever changing puzzle and you need to make sure the pieces fit. The definition of "occasionally" also factors in.

Could Nick have chosen to present some situations that would be moving guys to positions they don't currently play? Sure. But that's pretty rarely done (unless you have a Mookie Betts) outside of injuries forcing it. Especially up the middle. There are limitations to what players can reasonably do. Correa goes down and you can't just plug Buxton into SS (full disclosure I've never seen Buxton field a grounder in the IF, but I assume he's not good enough to play SS in the bigs). So it's not just straight 26-man spot for 26-man spot, either. The Twins are full of guys who can't play up the middle.

Just when I thought you were making progress. 😁

We can't compare Nick Gordon to Mookie Betts as a baseball player in total. Of course not... but we are talking about making potentially slight defensive concessions in order to make what is hopefully a significant offensive gain. In that context... Based on experience. Nick Gordon is much less of a defensive risk in the infield than Mookie Betts is so we really can't compare Betts to Gordon because Betts doesn't measure up to Gordon on paper.  

The definition of occasionally is... occasionally. Gordon doesn't have to be the new 3B but Gordon could be an occasional guy.  

If you want to send Miranda down to AAA for Kirilloff to improve the offense. You can do it. But, you got to let Gordon play 3B occasionally and maybe... a me first glider in CF on occasion.  

 

[Whitey333]

There's plenty of dead weight on the roster so getting AK up here shouldn't be an issue.  My question is where does everyone see that he is already an accomplished major league hitter?  He only has 351 major league at bats with a career BA of .251.  I hope he gets here and puts up crazy numbers.  God knows the Twins need it.  He's done well at Trie AAA in the past only to come up here and sputter along.  It seems there's more hype than substance to AK so far IMO

[stringer bell]

3 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

Yeah, Miranda needs to pick it up soon. If not, maybe we make  room for Lee. 

Or Lewis. 

[IndianaTwin]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

I just don't know the answer.  There are not many AAA pitchers that will expose this weakness the way ML pitchers expose it, so I doubt AAA is the answer.  It opens a roster spot but it probably does not cure Miranda.   The frustrating thing is as Chpettit pointed out, everyone knows it's coming and he still swings at it.  It's just flat dumb.  Time for some coaching.

I don't think it's so much about being exposed or not in AAA. I think it's more about SaintsDaily being less active than TD. In other words, it just feels like he's pressing, so actually hitting some balls solidly in a more relaxed situation can build him some confidence that he doesn't have to swing at everything.

[Squirrel]

13 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

I don't think it's so much about being exposed or not in AAA. I think it's more about SaintsDaily being less active than TD. In other words, it just feels like he's pressing, so actually hitting some balls solidly in a more relaxed situation can build him some confidence that he doesn't have to swing at everything.

Exactly. This. He's really struggling and I don't think he can 'right the ship' on the 26-man. He needs to go back down and find it again. Then come up and blast away.

[Nick Nelson]

1 hour ago, John Belinski said:

I want to update my posting since I went back and looked at last 2 games. Larnach has struck out his last 7 at bats. He had 4 K's one game and then 3 K's in other game.  It certainly seems he is having a hitting problem and not helping the Twins. Let's give AK a chance.

It's 7 at-bats! Byron Buxton struck out 7 straight times earlier this year and since then he's slugging like .800. 

I get that Larnach is no Buxton but the point is that players slump and letting young guys work through that is part of the developmental process. Let's be clear here - even with this slump going on Larnach still ranks 4th on the team in OPS+, and he leads it in RBIs and walks. Playing good solid defense in LF. The guy has not been terrible, and the perception that he has seems very influenced by overreaction to me.

[Nick Nelson]

6 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Obviously, none of us would like to see an injury and you listed a few that would allow AK to come up Nick.  Wouldn't Gordon getting injured be another?  He is our spare outfielder and AK could fill that position on the roster (although not in CF as Gallo would shift over).

Also, isn't it wonderful that we have this problem?  Previous years we would only have players like Cave and Refsnider down there and would NOT have an option to bring up somebody would can really provide value to the lineup.

Gordon's barely playing so I don't see it as a solution. (Actually, I've been kinda worried about his future in the org because he's OOO and has such a small role after Farmer/Lewis return.) 

An injury or DFA to Gordon might open up a roster spot for AK but it's not gonna create playing time. 

Couldn't agree more with the second part of your post!