Game Thread: Twins v Red Sox, 4/20 @ 12:35pm CT

[James]

1 minute ago, MMMordabito said:

They better have a good farm system, because no FA will ever sign there again.

 Why would that deter FA from signing in AZ?  Bumgarner is still going to get paid. 

[AceWrigley]

1 minute ago, Eephus said:

How does Pagan's average exit vlocity compare to a  batting practice pitcher? 

I think Pagan achieves higher exit velocities by his excellent teeing- up of fastball after fastball.

[Aggies7]

We might be needing multiple innings from a position player. Seriously.

[AceWrigley]

Maybe this is one of those games that no matter who pitches he gets tagged with runs.

[MMMordabito]

The Twins might have been hornswaggled on the Pressly trade.

[Aggies7]

He’s pitching like Rodney Alcala today (google it)

[James]

[RickOShea]

30 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Pagan sucks!  He needs to be DFA!   I never like him at all.   I don’t know what Baldelli see in him as pitcher.   Pagan is real awful.   

Agreed, DFA him and let's take Bumgarner.

[USAFChief]

2 minutes ago, James said:

 Why would that deter FA from signing in AZ?  Bumgarner is still going to get paid. 

Possible your sarcasmeter needs adjustment. 

[MMMordabito]

3 minutes ago, James said:

 Why would that deter FA from signing in AZ?  Bumgarner is still going to get paid. 

Yeah, but he can no longer get his hotel suites on the road.  Why would anyone want to play for a team that does that to it's players?

[Heiny]

When the Twins "finally" do get rid of Pagan, there will be a party like Minnesota has never seen before.

[USAFChief]

Let's put a couple on the board and mitigate the damage to the ol' run differential table.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Sorry about the site going down. I tried to reboot this game without the Emilio Pagan add-on and the system crashed.

[Vanimal46]

The update is finished! 

[PDX Twin]

One of the advantages of retirement was supposed to be being able to watch Twins day games. Today has not felt much like an advantage.

[chpettit19]

27 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

You are exaggerating, you said everyone was calling Ober a world beater and Maeda a scrub. No one did either, the entirety of the argument seemed to be the hesitation about giving an aging pitcher who took extra long to recover from TJ surgery a spot in the bullpen instead of the rotation. Which many people were suggesting long before this season ever started.

But worse, you keep moving the goalposts. You first were arguing that they have to start Maeda because of the incentives. Then only after being shown how ridiculous that was, you decided the fight would be that Maeda is a better pitcher than Ober.

If you're tying the ST narrative to the current (like I am) then I'm not exaggerating. There are hundreds of posts on these boards about Ober being great and Maeda being close to toast. 

No, I'm not. My stance is still that they (and every team) takes contracts into consideration. My stance is till that other players, and agents really, pay attention to how players are treated when it comes to their contracts and incentives. I was then presented with an argument that Maeda simply isn't good enough, which tied back into the ST narratives, and combatted that as well. I'm arguing 2 different points because 2 different points were presented.

Fans can find the incentive talk ridiculous, but it's not. I can tell you with 100% certainty that there's at least 1 rep agency out there that tracks every contract, incentive details, how many incentives were reached, and have notes on why incentives weren't reached. I've seen the files. It's a 100% certainty that this stuff matters. Rep agencies (at least the good ones) have just as much data and info as teams. This stuff matters.

[USAFChief]

36 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

You said fine if the team thought he was one of the best five starters. When the Twins think someone will be more successful than Maeda then we will see another guy take that spot. I'm equally concerned with Mahle as Maeda but believe both have earned their spots in the rotation. As far as any contract incentives, the team just gave Maeda a fair chance to show his skills at earning the rotation spot. 

FTR, I preferred Maeda to other options coming out of ST. I almost always prefer a proven veteran to unproven youth.

What I absolutely positively do not agree with, is that somehow Meada gets the rotation spot, or keeps it, based on contract incentives. 

Overcome by events, as I'd be shocked if Maeda doesn't go on the IL, but Maeda's results to date pretty clearly give cause for concern. Skipping a start, velo down, command spotty.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

New pitcher.

 

Need 7+ runs before 6 outs....

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Any update on Maeda?

[h2oface]

41 minutes ago, AceWrigley said:

I think Pagan achieves higher exit velocities by his excellent teeing- up of fastball after fastball.

Maybe. Sometimes Vazquez calling seems a bit odd to me. Five 4 seamers in a row to Yoshida followed by 4 cutters in a row to Hernandez, both ABs resulting in singles. Then two curves in a row to Casas - single. But just all that "stuff" in the middle of the plate, too. But I have noticed many times to many different pitchers Vazquez will call the same pitch the whole AB, this string of 3 batters in a row an example. If you only get the same pitch, you see it better.

[RickOShea]

1 minute ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Any update on Maeda?

Rocco assured him, he would be free to attend the Eagles concert, next month.

[h2oface]

Site crashed? Went down. Being repaired?

[tony&rodney]

Julien has more pitches called strikes that are clearly outside of the strike zone than any player in memory. This was something I noted and commented on a number of times last year. Confusing.

[RickOShea]

Boston fans are great, when things are going their way.  They're applauding, letting people get to their seats easily, cheer the ball boys, and even use the restrooms, rather than whizzing on the concourse.

[stringer bell]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

If you're tying the ST narrative to the current (like I am) then I'm not exaggerating. There are hundreds of posts on these boards about Ober being great and Maeda being close to toast. 

No, I'm not. My stance is still that they (and every team) takes contracts into consideration. My stance is till that other players, and agents really, pay attention to how players are treated when it comes to their contracts and incentives. I was then presented with an argument that Maeda simply isn't good enough, which tied back into the ST narratives, and combatted that as well. I'm arguing 2 different points because 2 different points were presented.

Fans can find the incentive talk ridiculous, but it's not. I can tell you with 100% certainty that there's at least 1 rep agency out there that tracks every contract, incentive details, how many incentives were reached, and have notes on why incentives weren't reached. I've seen the files. It's a 100% certainty that this stuff matters. Rep agencies (at least the good ones) have just as much data and info as teams. This stuff matters.

There's a middle ground here. I think the Twins' decision to go with Maeda in the opening rotation is more than defensible, it was the right call. Maeda threw decently by the end of ST and Bailey Ober is a great option as a sixth starter, but not a truly established starting pitcher. 

I don't think Maeda has pitched himself out of the rotation, but his age, relative lack of velocity and recovery from TJ surgery all make for a shorter leash on a contending ball club. Maeda had success pitching out of the bullpen, but that was quite a while ago. 

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Julien has more pitches called strikes that are clearly outside of the strike zone than any player in memory. This was something I noted and commented on a number of times last year. Confusing.

Yeah I saw that too.  Ump was calling a tight zone all day and then he opened it up very wide to Jullian?  I take it Jullian questioned his ability to call balls and strikes at some point and he decided to stick it to him?  Only thing I can think of.  Once an umpire gets prickly all objectivity goes out the window. I hope the league forces them to review these calls especially two really bad ones to the same player in the same at bat.  We need the robots to get rid of this crap.

[Muppet]

Silver lining here:

Twins don't have to pitch in the 9th inning. 

[Dave Borton]

52 minutes ago, h2oface said:

A bit dispupettittatious here today, eh?

Yeah, there is an edge to some of the posts which I normally don't sense in these forums.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, stringer bell said:

There's a middle ground here. I think the Twins' decision to go with Maeda in the opening rotation is more than defensible, it was the right call. Maeda threw decently by the end of ST and Bailey Ober is a great option as a sixth starter, but not a truly established starting pitcher. 

I don't think Maeda has pitched himself out of the rotation, but his age, relative lack of velocity and recovery from TJ surgery all make for a shorter leash on a contending ball club. Maeda had success pitching out of the bullpen, but that was quite a while ago. 

I fully agree. Maeda absolutely may pitch himself into the pen at some point this year. I'm not suggesting he has to stay in the rotation all year. I'm suggesting it's April 20th. I'm suggesting this is his 3rd start.

I have a problem with comparing putting him in the pen in April to what the Dodgers did. I have a problem with the narrative that contracts don't matter in April. I have a problem with the idea that 2 starts was giving him "every chance to start" or however people want to word that. I get that it's just the nature of fandom that it's all live in the moment. But suggesting the team should be making big decisions on players after 2 starts is crazy, and terrible team management.

[h2oface]

There goes the all important run differential, Team ERA, and Team and individual batting averages all in one game. 😇

Now we will also get to hear, over and over, about that it was just that one outing for Pagan but he really has that great stuff, and trust the FO's judgement.