Roster Crunch? Who stays, who goes?

[Riverbrian]

15 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Since the Rays are now going with three right handers, will Garlick get swapped out with either Wallner (the people's choice?) or Larnach?

I've always assumed that the reason they went with Garlick instead of Wallner was the pending arrival of Larnach. 

On the other hand... Tampa is interesting because they have 3 lefties in the bullpen. They may want to deploy Garlick when they are called upon. 

On the other hand... We have 9 Right Handed Hitters - 2 Left Handed Hitters and 2 Switch hitters on the MLB Roster.

So.. the only reason to keep Garlick is extreme fear of the lefty hitting a lefty pitcher because that fear doesn't seem to exist with right handed hitters hitting right handed pitchers since we have 9 of them and we are scheduled to face right handed starters. 

In other words... Why Garlick is on the roster at all is something that I can't answer.  

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

Since the Rays are now going with three right handers, will Garlick get swapped out with either Wallner (the people's choice?) or Larnach?

 

55 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Good luck with that.

 

45 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I've always assumed that the reason they went with Garlick instead of Wallner was the pending arrival of Larnach. 

On the other hand... Tampa is interesting because they have 3 lefties in the bullpen. They may want to deploy Garlick when they are called upon. 

On the other hand... We have 9 Right Handed Hitters - 2 Left Handed Hitters and 2 Switch hitters on the MLB Roster.

So.. the only reason to keep Garlick is extreme fear of the lefty hitting a lefty pitcher because that fear doesn't seem to exist with right handed hitters hitting right handed pitchers since we have 9 of them and we are scheduled to face right handed starters. 

In other words... Why Garlick is on the roster at all is something that I can't answer.  

 

Larnach will be activated tonight ... for whom is yet tbd. What Brian suggested is something I've picked up elsewhere, that Larnach was imminent and they didn't want to bring back Wallner for a couple of days because of the limits there, so, Garlick was up and it makes sense he goes back down. But ... are Kepler's migraines IL worthy?

[Nine of twelve]

I expect Garlick to be sent to AAA to balance the activation of Larnach, but I also pose the question: who has more value right now, Garlick or Kepler?

And BTW, I believe Wallner is eligible to be placed on the major league roster after tomorrow's game. At that time the next question to be posed: who has more value, Wallner or Kepler?

 

[Craig Arko]

35 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

 

 

 

Larnach will be activated tonight ... for whom is yet tbd. What Brian suggested is something I've picked up elsewhere, that Larnach was imminent and they didn't want to bring back Wallner for a couple of days because of the limits there, so, Garlick was up and it makes sense he goes back down. But ... are Kepler's migraines IL worthy?

Or maybe they break down and put Buxton and/or Correa on the IL.

[Mike Sixel]

24 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Or maybe they break down and put Buxton and/or Correa on the IL.

Good one.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Less than an hour before first pitch, and no corresponding move announced and no lineup posted. This is not normal. 

[stringer bell]

5 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Less than an hour before first pitch, and no corresponding move announced and no lineup posted. This is not normal. 

Concur. Can CC go? How about Buck? Since Kirilloff ended Sunday’s game in the on-deck circle, I’d presume he’s good to go. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

Buxton to 10 day IL, Larnach up and hitting 5th tonight. 

[Nine of twelve]

I don't know the intricacies of the rules. Could the Twins have activated Larnach with the corresponding move of Garlick being sent down and IL'ing Buxton with the corresponding move of Wallner being called up? Kind of like a double switch.

[stringer bell]

4 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

I don't know the intricacies of the rules. Could the Twins have activated Larnach with the corresponding move of Garlick being sent down and IL'ing Buxton with the corresponding move of Wallner being called up? Kind of like a double switch.

Absolutely. 

[stringer bell]

I thought about posting a “Larnach vs. Wallner” thread. Apparently Trevor is still first in line. He can play both left and right and is a decent fielder—much better than Wallner. 
 

This doesn’t get Kepler out of the lineup. Also it doesn’t provide space for more than one of Gallo/Kepler/Wallner. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I thought about posting a “Larnach vs. Wallner” thread. Apparently Trevor is still first in line. He can play both left and right and is a decent fielder—much better than Wallner. 
 

This doesn’t get Kepler out of the lineup. Also it doesn’t provide space for more than one of Gallo/Kepler/Wallner. 

With Buxton on the Disabled List. There is space for all. Kepler, Wallner, Larnach and Kirilloff with LF, RF, 1B and DH to occupy. 

OK... Willi Castro has done alright so let's put him in the mix and now that's 5 players for 4 spots... Still enough space for all because one day on the bench out of five games isn't development starvation.  

With Castro in the mix... you can also drag CF into the rotation. So now you have 6 players for 5 spots. Kepler, Wallner, Larnach, Kiriloff, Castro and Taylor for DH, 1B, LF, CF, RF positions. One player sits every 6 games and everybody is fed. 

Nope... the roster spot goes to Kyle Garlick, who might pinch hit. So, that single pinch hit AB has become more vital in the eyes of the decision makers than a player who will get 10 AB's. 

I could have a ten hour meeting with the front office where they carefully go over the reasoning and I will not understand... and I believe I am capable of understanding complex things from time to time. 

I continue to wonder... What exactly are they doing? 

[stringer bell]

Yes, I get it. As far as I’m concerned, why play Kepler four days out of five until Gallo returns. 
 

Further, I don’t think it makes sense to stack so many left handed hitters, but the alternative needs to be a better player than Kyle Garlick. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

Yes, I get it. As far as I’m concerned, why play Kepler four days out of five until Gallo returns. 
 

Further, I don’t think it makes sense to stack so many left handed hitters, but the alternative needs to be a better player than Kyle Garlick. 

If Garlick is swapped for Wallner.

We would have 7 Right Handed hitters, 4 left handed hitters and 2 switch hitters. 

Stack? 4 Lefties? There are 18 teams that are more stacked or as stacked from the left side. 

I honestly don't understand.  

The ability to hit a baseball is more important than which batter box you stand in or what arm the pitcher throws with. 

We were shut out tonight. I've lost count of how many games we have scored less than 2 runs... 24? 25 times?

4 hits... how many times have we had 4 hits or less? how many times 12 K's or more?

But, we were ready for Garlick to pinch hit in the 7th when they carelessly brought that left hander in. Is that the only plan to get our offense out of this?

Don't worry about the offense... we will pinch hit Garlick in the 7th that should fix it. 

Never mind that we also had Farmer, Lewis and Jeffers also available to stand in that right batters box and pinch hit against that lefty in that spot. 

What are we doing? 

 

[Mike Sixel]

The front office needs to really look at this team, and make sure hard decisions. 

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

The front office needs to really look at this team, and make sure hard decisions. 

Those hard decisions should be getting easier. 

[jorgenswest]

16 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

In other words... Why Garlick is on the roster at all is something that I can't answer.

I expected he would be flipped out for Larnach.

It appears the Buxton decision was made shortly before the game after a workout so they went with that move. Assuming that is the case there is no reason not to have Wallner up to DH for today’s game. Hopefully he will be arriving in Tampa soon.

[Riverbrian]

30 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I expected he would be flipped out for Larnach.

It appears the Buxton decision was made shortly before the game after a workout so they went with that move. Assuming that is the case there is no reason not to have Wallner up to DH for today’s game. Hopefully he will be arriving in Tampa soon.

I can see the chronological explanation but it became a plausible chronological explanation for all of us to swallow because of their own doing.  

I would have called up Wallner for Gallo on Saturday and let Wallner or Larnach be the decision yesterday if health held up and a roster spot was needed. Turns out... health didn't hold up and that roster spot decision wasn't necessary and Wallner would still be here. 

Now I realize... that I am placing way too much hope on Wallner and acting like I know he would be slugging 9 million these past couple of days and that Wallner would have no chance of failure because of his hot bat. 

No doubt that I am funneling a lot of frustration right now into this Wallner thing but it's really the process that keeps him down that has got me concerned.  

Any process that ignores the hot guy for a guy that they won't play is a bad process especially when the team needs something anything. 

Rostering a pinch hitting right handed bat like Garlick is like dabbing toilet paper on to a face laceration that needs stitches.

It isn't going to fix the problem. It's not even trying to fix the problem.

Wallner probably isn't going to fix it either but at least they are at the doctors office.    

[USAFChief]

15 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I can see the chronological explanation but it became a plausible chronological explanation for all of us to swallow because of their own doing.  

I would have called up Wallner for Gallo on Saturday and let Wallner or Larnach be the decision yesterday if health held up and a roster spot was needed. Turns out... health didn't hold up and that roster spot decision wasn't necessary and Wallner would still be here. 

Now I realize... that I am placing way too much hope on Wallner and acting like I knew he would be slugging 9 million these past couple of days and that Wallner would have no chance of failure because of his hotness. 

No doubt that I am funneling a lot of frustration right now into this Wallner thing but it's really the process that has got me concerned.  

Any process that ignores the hot guy for a guy that they won't play is a bad process especially when the team needs something anything. 

Rostering a pinch hitting right handed bat like Garlick is like dabbing toilet paper on to a face laceration that needs stitches.

It isn't going to fix the problem. Wallner probably isn't going to fix it either but at least they are at the doctors office.    

It's worse: the explanation for Garlic wasn't "RH pinch hitter." It was "we're facing a bunch of lefties in the next week."

"A bunch" = 2, apparently. 

And I'm a guy that believes strongly in the platoon advantage/disadvantage. 

And to be fair, focusing on Garlic is focusing on one small tree and ignoring the forest. The forest is, Twins management seems incapable of putting together a good, consistent offense. They had the blip of 2019, when a juiced ball combined with career years for guys they didn't draft, develop, or sign. Outside of that, their talent seems to be assembling players who K too much, can't translate whatever minor league success they showed into MLB success, can't stay on the field, or all the above.

 

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

 

No doubt that I am funneling a lot of frustration right now into this Wallner thing but it's really the process that keeps him down that has got me concerned.  

Any process that ignores the hot guy for a guy that they won't play is a bad process especially when the team needs something anything. 

Rostering a pinch hitting right handed bat like Garlick is like dabbing toilet paper on to a face laceration that needs stitches.

It isn't going to fix the problem. It's not even trying to fix the problem.

Wallner probably isn't going to fix it either but at least they are at the doctors office.    

 

50 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

It's worse: the explanation for Garlic wasn't "RH pinch hitter." It was "we're facing a bunch of lefties in the next week."

"A bunch" = 2, apparently. 

And I'm a guy that believes strongly in the platoon advantage/disadvantage. 

And to be fair, focusing on Garlic is focusing on one small tree and ignoring the forest. The forest is, Twins management seems incapable of putting together a good, consistent offense. They had the blip of 2019, when a juiced ball combined with career years for guys they didn't draft, develop, or sign. Outside of that, their talent seems to be assembling players who K too much, can't translate whatever minor league success they showed into MLB success, can't stay on the field, or all the above.

 

Good points fellas. There is a lot to agree with from both of you. RB, I agree that someone hitting as well as Wallner has at AAA/MLB should have gotten the call when another LH batter went on the IL. Two games of having Wallner or Kirilloff face LH pitching isn't worth letting a guy who is raking sit in AAA. 

Chief, I also agree with you. The Twins continue to seem to be trying to win games with one hand behind their back, short benches, poor performers continually in the lineup. We keep waiting for the full lineup to be there and for a good and consistent offense.I, too, believe in platoon advantages, but not so much that giving Kyle bleeping Garlick a week of roster run and a half dozen at-bats is worth it.

From perhaps a third perspective, this is what I see on the position player side of the Twins' roster: Starters--based on past performance--Buxton, Correa and Polanco. Starters based on pedigree and potential--Lewis and Krilloff. Starter--based on position--Vázquez/Jeffers. That is six--the catchers are a job sharing operation, the other five guys should be in the lineup 90% or more of the time if healthy. That leaves three positions to fill. Center has been manned by Michael A Taylor, a perfectly fine 8-9 hitter with an 88 OPS+, not optimum but not a black hole, particularly with good defense at a premium position and 8-8 stolen bases. The remaining two positions are the corner outfield spots and the three that have played (more than 25 plate appearances) have these batting averages: .188, .189 and .211. These are guys playing two of the three lowest positions on the defensive spectrum and in 463 plate appearance the trio has 22 homers and 65 RBI, not exactly boxcar numbers for those positions. Gallo goes out and the team brings in an all-but-acknowledged specialist (I mash lefties). Nah, it doesn't make sense. They need someone to mash pitching.

Kyle Farmer, Donnie Barrels and Willi Castro have been called on to play much more than expected and also much more in non-favorable platoon matchups. 

Buxton and particularly Correa have performed far below past performance and expectations, which puts more on the other players. Lewis has less than 100 plate appearances and Kirlloff has just over 100 this year, so neither of those guys is proven. The only thing that is proven is the missed time. Buxton has missed about half of the time in the last six years, Kirilloff and Lewis have missed most of the last two seasons, Gallo, Kepler and Polanco have both already been on the IL twice this year. Larnach missed a lot of time in the past two seasons and was on the IL this year. The subs, the catchers and the center fielder (Taylor) have stayed healthy.

Dump the unproductive Kepler, bring up Wallner, get the key players healthy and stop wasting so much outstanding pitching. If it doesn't work, blow it up.

Note: I may have let my keyboard anger let me say things I'll regret later. 

 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

It's worse: the explanation for Garlic wasn't "RH pinch hitter." It was "we're facing a bunch of lefties in the next week."

"A bunch" = 2, apparently. 

And I'm a guy that believes strongly in the platoon advantage/disadvantage. 

And to be fair, focusing on Garlic is focusing on one small tree and ignoring the forest. The forest is, Twins management seems incapable of putting together a good, consistent offense. They had the blip of 2019, when a juiced ball combined with career years for guys they didn't draft, develop, or sign. Outside of that, their talent seems to be assembling players who K too much, can't translate whatever minor league success they showed into MLB success, can't stay on the field, or all the above.

 

Yeah... a whole two of them so let's... I'm sorry I don't understand what are they doing?  

You and I have always had a different viewpoint on platoon usage and yet we are arriving at nearly the same place at the moment. 

I'm not anti-platoon. I understand the statistical advantage of the platoon. I'm ok with it's implementation. 

I'm anti strict usage of the platoon, justifying the deployment of players who are not getting the job done in their roles. Kepler can't hit... it's ok... he's left handed and there is a right hander on the mound and so he plays like it's a law that can't be broken. 

I'd rather a right hander hitter hit against right handers over a struggling left handed bat against right handers. That was the crux of my point with Garlick last year. No idea if Garlick would hit right handers or not... he was never given the opportunity to. I just knew that the left handed side of things wasn't hitting. So... why not let our OPS leader at the time give it a try instead.  I know you didn't like that idea but I'll say the same thing this year if Garlick is going to take up a roster spot... might as well see if Garlick can do better because we need someone to be better... but you and I both know that Garlick will not be allowed to do that so... he's worthless to me. I don't care if he ever puts on a Twins uniform again.     

I'm against using the platoon to justify the benching against left handers of one of our top hitters (Kirilloff) who has an entire career in front of him... like it's a rule that can't be broken. This is the same front office that would sit Arraez vs. left handers last year like it's a rule that can't be broken. The Marlins are not doing that with Arraez and it seems to be going OK for them.

A better hitter is a better hitter. Mainly... I am strongly against letting hitters walk past the lineup card who are not earning the right to walk past the lineup card and we got a bunch of those guys and they were chosen by the front office and they can't get off the script. 

I'm not anti-platoon... The platoon is a tool to help you get the job done... they are using the platoon much like a spoon is a tool you can use to dig the Grand Canyon. It's going to take a long time and we haven't got that kind of time. This offense needs a big truck with a really big scoop.       

 

[NotAboutWinning]

The Twins are striking out by the dozen. The Saints are scoring runs by the dozen. What is wrong with this picture???

[Riverbrian]

Another point since I'm worked up.

Kepler and Gallo are performing on par with the past. Taylor is performing on par with the past. So... they are meeting expectation there is nothing to be surprised about. 

Correa and Buxton are the noticeable drop offs in expectation along with Miranda of course.

If Correa and Buxton were performing to career norms... perhaps we could live with those Kepler, Gallo, Taylor repeat performances. 

They are not... so we can't. 

Starting pulling from the bottom so the floor is raised and perhaps a top can be identified along the way. 

The 10 million dollar option on Kepler is not going to be picked up. The players that he is in front of will be back next year. If the players that he is in front of are capable of being better than he is right now and they will be back next year and Kepler will not...

The question must be asked... What are we doing?  

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

I'm pretty sure I'll jump on the "fire the FO bandwagon" if they don't get rid of Kepler soon. It might not work, sure. I get that. But we KNOW Kepler won't work at this point. 

Me? I believe in patience in baseball, but we've been patient with Kepler. 

I agree with the above, a HUGE issue is CC and Buxton. If those two hit like this, I'm not sure what this team can do, frankly. I liked both contracts, but wow, they are not working out at all. I don't think any normal, rational, fan would expect what has happened with these two to happen. I'm not going to blame the FO for having them on this roster. But, maybe, when they are hurt, they IL them faster? I don't know......I do't have a good, realistic, answer for these two..

[Irishman]

2 hours ago, NotAboutWinning said:

The Twins are striking out by the dozen. The Saints are scoring runs by the dozen. What is wrong with this picture???

Way too many K's.  Bring back James Rowson as hitting coach.  Let Tommy Watkins, Rudy Hernandez and David Popkins go!

[USAFChief]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Yeah... a whole two of them so let's... I'm sorry I don't understand what are they doing?  

You and I have always had a different viewpoint on platoon usage and yet we are arriving at nearly the same place at the moment. 

I'm not anti-platoon. I understand the statistical advantage of the platoon. I'm ok with it's implementation. 

I'm anti strict usage of the platoon, justifying the deployment of players who are not getting the job done in their roles. Kepler can't hit... it's ok... he's left handed and there is a right hander on the mound and so he plays like it's a law that can't be broken. 

I'd rather a right hander hitter hit against right handers over a struggling left handed bat against right handers. That was the crux of my point with Garlick last year. No idea if Garlick would hit right handers or not... he was never given the opportunity to. I just knew that the left handed side of things wasn't hitting. So... why not let our OPS leader at the time give it a try instead.  I know you didn't like that idea but I'll say the same thing this year if Garlick is going to take up a roster spot... might as well see if Garlick can do better because we need someone to be better... but you and I both know that Garlick will not be allowed to do that so... he's worthless to me. I don't care if he ever puts on a Twins uniform again.     

I'm against using the platoon to justify the benching against left handers of one of our top hitters (Kirilloff) who has an entire career in front of him... like it's a rule that can't be broken. This is the same front office that would sit Arraez vs. left handers last year like it's a rule that can't be broken. The Marlins are not doing that with Arraez and it seems to be going OK for them.

A better hitter is a better hitter. Mainly... I am strongly against letting hitters walk past the lineup card who are not earning the right to walk past the lineup card and we got a bunch of those guys and they were chosen by the front office and they can't get off the script. 

I'm not anti-platoon... The platoon is a tool to help you get the job done... they are using the platoon much like a spoon is a tool you can use to dig the Grand Canyon. It's going to take a long time and we haven't got that kind of time. This offense needs a big truck with a really big scoop.       

 

My point is maybe they should actually platoon.

They called up Garlick because of "all the upcoming lefties" yet he started against RH Triston McKenzie Sunday. And AFAIK there's all of 1 more LH stater scheduled against the Twins this week.

Meanwhile, every other starter is right handed. Why not have the platoon advantage with Wallner in 7 or 8 starts and lose it for 2, rather than the other way around?

They seem to be doing the platoon advantage in a funny way. We had Donnie Barrels at DH batting 4th last night ferpetesakes.

 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

My point is maybe they should actually platoon.

They called up Garlick because of "all the upcoming lefties" yet he started against RH Triston McKenzie Sunday. And AFAIK there's all of 1 more LH stater scheduled against the Twins this week.

Meanwhile, every other starter is right handed. Why not have the platoon advantage with Wallner in 7 or 8 starts and lose it for 2, rather than the other way around?

They seem to be doing the platoon advantage in a funny way. We had Donnie Barrels at DH batting 4th last night ferpetesakes.

 

I agree with you.....I really do not understand what's going on with the OFers at this point. 

[Riverbrian]

50 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

My point is maybe they should actually platoon.

They called up Garlick because of "all the upcoming lefties" yet he started against RH Triston McKenzie Sunday. And AFAIK there's all of 1 more LH stater scheduled against the Twins this week.

Meanwhile, every other starter is right handed. Why not have the platoon advantage with Wallner in 7 or 8 starts and lose it for 2, rather than the other way around?

They seem to be doing the platoon advantage in a funny way. We had Donnie Barrels at DH batting 4th last night ferpetesakes.

 

I'd go the other direction just looking for hitters but I am much better with what you are suggesting than what they are actually doing. 

73% of MLB is right handed... with an even higher percentage of right handed pitchers coming down the pike so YEAH... What you said... Why are they messing around with Garlick? 

For the life of me... I can't figure it out.  

 

[Craig Arko]

I’m as befuddled as the rest of you. Glad it’s not my job to figure this out.

[USAFChief]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I'd go the other direction just looking for hitters but I am much better with what you are suggesting than what they are actually doing. 

 

 

I think the primary problem is there's not much in the way of hitters to search through. I mean, Wallner has his warts too. But given that, yeah, Garlick was an odd choice.