Roster Crunch? Who stays, who goes?

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Meanwhile, every other starter is right handed. Why not have the platoon advantage with Wallner in 7 or 8 starts and lose it for 2, rather than the other way around?

Not to mention, Wallner's L/R splits this year do not show him to be incapable of hitting lefties. Last year, same*.

As the old saying goes, I don't want right-handed batters, I want batters who can hit left-handed pitchers. (And vicey versy.)

* If the team is going to let 18 PA during his September call-up outweigh much larger samples at AA and AAA I really don't know what to say about their analytics.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

Just trying to figure this out.  Is it possible that Garlick is up because they are hoping he gets a hot couple of games so they can trade him somewhere for a low level prospect or a bag of balls? At some point, when everyone (if everyone) gets healthy, they will need a room on the 40 man roster, so somebody needs to go away.  Maybe that's Garlick and they are just prepping it weirdly.  I'd rather think it was Kepler, but I think the experiment of hoping he gets hot has probably fizzled by now (and several times over the past couple of years) so that seems unlikely. 

[stringer bell]

51 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Just trying to figure this out.  Is it possible that Garlick is up because they are hoping he gets a hot couple of games so they can trade him somewhere for a low level prospect or a bag of balls? At some point, when everyone (if everyone) gets healthy, they will need a room on the 40 man roster, so somebody needs to go away.  Maybe that's Garlick and they are just prepping it weirdly.  I'd rather think it was Kepler, but I think the experiment of hoping he gets hot has probably fizzled by now (and several times over the past couple of years) so that seems unlikely. 

They were going to face three lefties and face the Rays with three lefties in their bullpen. I guess the feeling was that having a right handed bat to hit for or be the alternate for Kepler and Larnach was needed.

Garlick is 31 years old and hasn't lit up AAA. He's always been thought of as a lefty mashing specialist who is not particularly adept in the field. Trading him is a remote possibility at the deadline and certainly not right now. He could be a DFA at some point, although he can be optioned this year.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

4 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

They were going to face three lefties and face the Rays with three lefties in their bullpen. I guess the feeling was that having a right handed bat to hit for or be the alternate for Kepler and Larnach was needed.

Garlick is 31 years old and hasn't lit up AAA. He's always been thought of as a lefty mashing specialist who is not particularly adept in the field. Trading him is a remote possibility at the deadline and certainly not right now. He could be a DFA at some point, although he can be optioned this year.

I was hoping out loud!

[Riverbrian]

I know we don't have obvious alternatives but is it too soon to ask the question. 

Why is Correa still batting in the top 3? 

Is it OK to ask why veterans are handled with kid gloves. Can't change the batting order or they can't handle it mentally. 

Yet young players like Wallner can be tossed around like sand bags without mental damage. 

If Correa starts hitting in the 7th, 8th or 9th spot... we can always move him back a top 3 spot. I assume that is allowed.  

Yeah... I know... we don't have obvious alternatives. But is it OK to ask this question? 

[Irishman]

23 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I know we don't have obvious alternatives but is it too soon to ask the question. 

Why is Correa still batting in the top 3? 

Is it OK to ask why veterans are handled with kid gloves. Can't change the batting order or they can't handle it mentally. 

Yet young players like Wallner can be tossed around like sand bags without mental damage. 

If Correa starts hitting in the 7th, 8th or 9th spot... we can always move him back a top 3 spot. I assume that is allowed.  

Yeah... I know... we don't have obvious alternatives. But is it OK to ask this question? 

Go and ask Baldelli.   

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Go and ask Baldelli.   

Well... I gotta know if it's OK to ask before I go straight to the boss. 

He's a busy guy. I must respect that. 

[Craig Arko]

So, Correa is moving down in the lineup. He’s batting 4th today.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I know we don't have obvious alternatives but is it too soon to ask the question. 

Why is Correa still batting in the top 3? 

Is it OK to ask why veterans are handled with kid gloves. Can't change the batting order or they can't handle it mentally. 

Yet young players like Wallner can be tossed around like sand bags without mental damage. 

If Correa starts hitting in the 7th, 8th or 9th spot... we can always move him back a top 3 spot. I assume that is allowed.  

Yeah... I know... we don't have obvious alternatives. But is it OK to ask this question? 

When the team has a winning record, even if there's a sense sub-optimally, the manager has to weigh "don't rock the boat" with all the other factors.

As we slip below .500 though, it becomes time to rock several boats.

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, ashbury said:

When the team has a winning record, even if there's a sense sub-optimally, the manager has to weigh "don't rock the boat" with all the other factors.

As we slip below .500 though, it becomes time to rock several boats.

It's time to put that 45 RPM record or 8-Track of the Hues Corporation away. 

 

Younger folks will have to google the reference and probably have the eyesight to read this sentence.  

[ashbury]

10 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It's time to put that 45 RPM record or 8-Track of the Hues Corporation away. 

 

Younger folks will have to google the reference and probably have the eyesight to read this sentence.  

[Riverbrian]

On June 3rd... Joey Gallo was placed on the DL and Kyle Garlick was called up. Who knows what the intention of the front office was but it was assumed and justified by some on TD that it was a just a temp job with Trevor Larnach coming off the Disabled List so therefore OK. 

Trevor Larnach was indeed activated while Byron Buxton was placed on the DL so Garlick has remained on the 26 man roster. 

It's been 8 games now. 

Kyle Garlick has had 11 AB's total in those 8 games. One Hit, No Walks and 5 Strikeouts.

Max Kepler over those 8 games... 21 ABs - '3 hits, for a .142 BA - 1 walk and 1 Home run which was nice. 

Not only is Kepler continuing to struggle... but competition for his spot is being held away from him by management in favor of short side platoon matchups.

If you do a sort right now for the last 15 days... You will see that Wallner has one more hit than Garlick does. Wallner is listed as 2 for 2... Garlick 1 for 11. That's kind of amusing. BTW... Larnach has 3 hits and 8 K's since his return... I don't mind this as much as Kepler because Larnach will be back next year. Kepler won't be. 

I continue to ask... what are we doing? We have completely wasted an opportunity to see if Wallner could be a better hitter than Kepler and Larnach. Especially if Buxton is out of the DH spot. 

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Left handed batters facing left handed pitchers still draws an extreme reaction to the lineup card and it's the primary source of all pinch hitting moves as Rocco continues with strict adherence of not wanting lefties facing lefties and continues to not mind righties facing righties as much other than Garlick.

So we need to watch the lefty count of our upcoming opponents since it is without a doubt clear that this is an unbreakable rule for Rocco. 

The Brewers have one left handed pitcher in the lineup. A relief pitcher by the name of Hoby Milner. 

Good time for Gallo to replace Garlick for the Brewers match up. Who plays RF between Kepler and Larnach with Gallo I assume claiming LF. Is Solano out as the DH when Gallo arrives so Larnach can DH and Kepler in RF and both playing in all of their left handedness despite numbers that suggest that neither is doing much against any hand. 

Either way... When Buxton comes back... without any other injury. Kepler and Larnach are probably the 26 man decision to make room for when Buxton comes back. 

The Tigers series makes sense for the activation of the right handed Buxton (If he can be activated) in the platoon split world we live in and Garlick back in AAA.   

The Tigers have two left handed starters and they are scheduled for Thursday and Friday back to back. Matthew Boyd and Joey Wentz plus the Tigers have 3 left handed members of the bullpen in Shreve, Holton and Alexander. To matchup against Boyd and Wentz. Buxton DH, Catcher, Solano 1B, Farmer 2B, Lewis 3B, Correa SS, Taylor CF and Castro in LF or RF.

Oh No... Someone will have to be left handed and start against a lefty with Garlick gone. Unless Rocco put Jeffers out in the OF. 😎 

The Tigers will have the ability to left right left right Rocco until he is dizzy. Larnach is probably the guy who goes down for Buxton because I don't see them tagging Kepler with a DFA just to keep Larnach up with his 3 hits and 8 strikeouts. 

The Red Sox are next... We should miss the lefty Paxton so it will be 4 right handed starters with two lefties in the bullpen (Bernadino and Jacques) for the 4 games series. 

If nobody gets hurt... We will have 4 pure left handed bats on the roster,,, potentially down to 3 by the 20th when Julien is sent back to AAA for the returning Polanco who is eligible for return on the 20th. 

Let's see what happens.  

 

[LA Vikes Fan]

Here's my take. I see this year as a chance to turn over the roster and still win a lousy division. This team as constructed is not a WS contender but could go someplace with a youth injection (or could tank, but worth finding out). If the team were to so what I think they should do I think the variability would go way up - higher upside, higher downside.  Those things are - DFA/trade Kepler and Pagan, send Larnach to AAA. Play Lewis, Kirilloff, and Julien 5 days a week. Put Maeda in the bullpen to replace Pagan (adjust his contract), Gallo replaces Kepler, just as good in the OF/better offensive production. Buxton replaces Larnach while Julien stays because we need a leadoff hitter more than another power hitting, hitting strikeout corner OF. Polanco replaces Garlick.  Typical lineup - Julien (2B/DH), Lewis (3B), Kirilloff (1B), Buxton (CF/LF), Correa (SS), Polanco (2B/DH), Gallo (RF), Jeffers/Vasquez (C),  Castro/MAT(LF/CF).  Bench - Solano (earned it with his hitting),  MAT/Castro, Farmer, backup catcher.  First men up from AAA - Wallner, Larnach, Miranda. IF we want Wallner up and can find him a spot to play, Solano gets traded. I just don't see a spot for him to play if we keep Gallo or Kepler and want to play Julien. Trading Gallo and a DFA/trade of Kepler both have to happen before Wallner gets called up. I think Julien is the guy who rates the longer look right now. If Julien or Lewis fails or Castro goes into a deep funk, then it's time for Wallner to get a shot.   

[stringer bell]

24 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Here's my take. I see this year as a chance to turn over the roster and still win a lousy division. This team as constructed is not a WS contender but could go someplace with a youth injection (or could tank, but worth finding out). If the team were to so what I think they should do I think the variability would go way up - higher upside, higher downside.  Those things are - DFA/trade Kepler and Pagan, send Larnach to AAA. Play Lewis, Kirilloff, and Julien 5 days a week. Put Maeda in the bullpen to replace Pagan (adjust his contract), Gallo replaces Kepler, just as good in the OF/better offensive production. Buxton replaces Larnach while Julien stays because we need a leadoff hitter more than another power hitting, hitting strikeout corner OF. Polanco replaces Garlick.  Typical lineup - Julien (2B/DH), Lewis (3B), Kirilloff (1B), Buxton (CF/LF), Correa (SS), Polanco (2B/DH), Gallo (RF), Jeffers/Vasquez (C),  Castro/MAT(LF/CF).  Bench - Solano (earned it with his hitting),  MAT/Castro, Farmer, backup catcher.  First men up from AAA - Wallner, Larnach, Miranda. IF we want Wallner up and can find him a spot to play, Solano gets traded. I just don't see a spot for him to play if we keep Gallo or Kepler and want to play Julien. Trading Gallo and a DFA/trade of Kepler both have to happen before Wallner gets called up. I think Julien is the guy who rates the longer look right now. If Julien or Lewis fails or Castro goes into a deep funk, then it's time for Wallner to get a shot.   

From his short stay so far this year, Wallner is the one who deserves a longer look. Julien will get PAs for probably the next two weeks and if he hits, he deserves to stay. As it is, it's a judgment call. He obviously isn't a strong defender, but he fills needs as a lefty infielder who gets on base. 

Counting Kirilloff as a first baseman and Gallo as a corner outfielder, we have Kepler, Gallo and  Larnach, none of whom are hitting for high average. Kepler plays good defense at a position low on the spectrum, as does Gallo, and Larnach is decent. Gallo has enough slug and walks to have a respectable OPS, Larnach is below average and Kepler is well below average. More production is needed and I don't see it coming from that trio. It would appear that Garlick leaves for Gallo tomorrow and probably Larnach for Buxton, again maybe as soon as tomorrow. It doesn't solve the corner outfielder problem at all. Giving Kepler a DFA and finding a respectable RH bat to mix in with Wallner and Gallo would be my prescription--on another thread I suggested Jo Adell from the Angel system for Larnach--to get more production out of the corner outfield spots.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I like the idea of Larnach for Adell. Both might benefit from a new environment. The sticking point is that the Angels don't need an corner OF and Ohtani clogs up their DH. They either want to keep Adell or trade him in a package for pitching. There may be a 3 way deal in there somewhere. 

I think where we disagree is not on whether Wallner deserves a shot - he does - but on what this team's needs are. We desperately need a competent leadoff hitter who can get on base and add some base stealing. Julien isn't perfect for that role because of his defensive inadequacies and he isn't going to remind anyone of Ricky Henderson, but he has been an on base machine in MiLB with some base stealing ability and has shown signs of that in his brief MLB work.  Wallner has also shown signs of a good power hitter who plays an adequate corner OF.  He's a #5-7 hitter. We have more than enough of those guys already so Wallner has to be a replacement for a similar profile like Gallo, Kepler, or Larnach. At least 2 of those guys need to be gone or at the end of the bench before there's really a spot for Wallner. Also, Kirilloff may need to play OF so we can get Polanco in the lineup at 1B and protect his legs while still playing Julien. That moves Wallner farther down the list for this year. Kepler and Gallo are likely not on the Twins next year so that's when he's likely to get his shot. Injuries can change all of this of course. 

You're right about the bottom line. Julien is getting his shot now.  He has a couple of weeks (?) to play his way onto the team. If he does, that probably comes at the expense of others like Wallner.  

[Craig Arko]

Lewis seems like the obvious answer to the leadoff question, although Julien works too.

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

Lewis seems like the obvious answer to the leadoff question, although Julien works too.

The prototypical lead of hitter sees a lot of pitches and draws a fair number of walks. Lewis so far has been the most impatient hitter this side of Williams Astudillo. 

[Craig Arko]

39 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

The prototypical lead of hitter sees a lot of pitches and draws a fair number of walks. Lewis so far has been the most impatient hitter this side of Williams Astudillo. 

Ah, Joey Gallo.

[stringer bell]

Julien fits for me and he is enough of a running threat to at least keep opponents aware. 

[Riverbrian]

It will be interesting to see how Rocco approaches Corbin Burnes tomorrow night. 

He is a right handed pitcher and his career splits are close to Neutral. Exceptional pitcher against both sides of the plate. 

vs. LHB - .216/.289./.339

vs. RHB - .203/.263/.334

This Year However: 

vs. LHB - .159/.247/.217

vs. RHB - .238/.304/.420

His ERA at 3.36 is up slightly this year. The guy has been in the 2 ERA range for the past 3 years.

His strikeouts are down significantly this year.

75 K's in 77 innings this year 

Compared to 

2022: 243 K's in 202 Innings

2021: 234 K's in 167 Innings

He's been a little more vulnerable this year compared to past years and it's the right handed batter that is causing that little window of vulnerability.  

It'll be interesting to see how Rocco reacts to the opposite splits that Burnes is producing. Could he start more right handers against Burnes. 

There is no doubt that Rocco matches up on the split data. 

We will have to wait and see... One thing is for certain... Burnes K rate is down... but the Twins may be the remedy for that. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

Julien fits for me and he is enough of a running threat to at least keep opponents aware. 

I love his Swing. He has incredible bat speed yet still smooth. 

I think he's a can't miss at the plate. That swing is too good.

I think he needs a bigger glove to play 1B.

Kirilloff can help our OF hit better. 

[Mike Sixel]

19 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I love his Swing. He has incredible bat speed yet still smooth. 

I think he's a can't miss at the plate. That swing is too good.

I think he needs a bigger glove to play 1B.

Kirilloff can help our OF hit better. 

Still have no idea why Julien never played 1B in the minors. He's not a good fielder if he has to move....we've seen that. And, AK can play RF, maybe even LF. Oh well, I've given up hope they move on from Kepler, and believe this is ANOTHER wasted year due to the FO not building a complete team.

[Riverbrian]

17 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Still have no idea why Julien never played 1B in the minors. He's not a good fielder if he has to move....we've seen that. And, AK can play RF, maybe even LF. Oh well, I've given up hope they move on from Kepler, and believe this is ANOTHER wasted year due to the FO not building a complete team.

If I had to guess... his bat just advanced quicker than his glove did. Doesn't mean that the glove won't catch up. 

I'm Mr. Flexibility... I like the idea of them playing everywhere to open up more doors to walk through and not close doors for others. 

Right now... his 2B needs work and I'm guessing 1B is the most open door for him at the moment. 

[Mike Sixel]

mike: The Twins seem to have painted themselves into a corner here, and just need to hope Buxton and CC and Polanco hit…..Kepler hasn’t hit for three years, would you move on?

 

2:11

Avatar Jay Jaffe: They’re committed to Buxton and Correa long-term, and when you do that, you have to be prepared for the occasional lag in production but hope they eventually approximate something closer to their projected capability. As for Kepler, he’s been a fixture in the lineup since 2016 and still has just two seasons of above-average production to show for it, and those came in 2019-20. It’s past time to move on, and worth seeing what Matt Wallner can do even if he does have some holes in his game.

[LA Vikes Fan]

Just saw that Larnach has been optioned back to St. Paul. there wasn't a mention of a corresponding move, but I have to assume it will be activating Buxton. 

I'm hoping this means Kepler is now the 4th Of since Buxton will be the DH. You put Gallo in RF, Kirilloff in LF, Solano at 1B, Julien at 2B, and Buxton at DH. All of them should be playing over Kepler.  

[tony&rodney]

A healthy and productive Jorge Polanco is the best player the Twins have on their roster. Unhealthy Polanco should just heal on the IL, and the same goes for Buxton. The Twins have some depth. The objections to Julien at second base are unrealistic. He is not Joe Morgan or Roberto Alomar. We can all agree on that. Thus far his fielding has yielded a handful of awkward plays that still recorded outs and one error. His range is fine and even though it looks like he stumbles in all directions, he records the outs. Is Eddie as good as we want at second base? No, but he is a positive force right now and showing signs of getting better. His defense is much better than Koskie showed when he first came to the majors and in time we saw the glove join the bat for Corey at third base. I'm thinking the Twins need to roster those players whose presence raises the odds of wins. Right now, Julien is a no brain decision to keep. Larnach was sent down because he has options but we should hope his absence is not critical because he has shown he could be a player too. There are some tough decisions coming by the end of July and those calls will determine the fate of the team.

[Riverbrian]

53 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Just saw that Larnach has been optioned back to St. Paul. there wasn't a mention of a corresponding move, but I have to assume it will be activating Buxton. 

I'm hoping this means Kepler is now the 4th Of since Buxton will be the DH. You put Gallo in RF, Kirilloff in LF, Solano at 1B, Julien at 2B, and Buxton at DH. All of them should be playing over Kepler.  

Has to be Buxton... if not it's Miranda. It won't be Wallner with the Boyd matchup tomorrow and I don't think they can call up Garlick. . 

If I had to place a bet... Kepler will play against lefties and Solano will sit. 

[Riverbrian]

55 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

A healthy and productive Jorge Polanco is the best player the Twins have on their roster. Unhealthy Polanco should just heal on the IL, and the same goes for Buxton. The Twins have some depth. The objections to Julien at second base are unrealistic. He is not Joe Morgan or Roberto Alomar. We can all agree on that. Thus far his fielding has yielded a handful of awkward plays that still recorded outs and one error. His range is fine and even though it looks like he stumbles in all directions, he records the outs. Is Eddie as good as we want at second base? No, but he is a positive force right now and showing signs of getting better. His defense is much better than Koskie showed when he first came to the majors and in time we saw the glove join the bat for Corey at third base. I'm thinking the Twins need to roster those players whose presence raises the odds of wins. Right now, Julien is a no brain decision to keep. Larnach was sent down because he has options but we should hope his absence is not critical because he has shown he could be a player too. There are some tough decisions coming by the end of July and those calls will determine the fate of the team.

Julien is the leadoff hitter... they know he can hit. Actions speak pretty loudly. 

It would take a certain something to send down a player hitting the baseball when you need players hitting the baseball.

If Julien continues to hit while Polanco is out. He could get the same treatment Miranda got last year as he forces himself into plans. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

Random thought from KLAW:

Ben

1:52

The Twins continue to bench or pinch hit Alex Kirilloff against LH ... He's never had poor splits and has probably been the best bat on the roster all year. Kyle Garlick doesnt deserve ABs over him due to splits. Any idea what they are doing ???

Keith Law

1:52

It's disappointing - he's old enough now to just let him play every day.

[wabene]

51 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Random thought from KLAW:

Ben

1:52

The Twins continue to bench or pinch hit Alex Kirilloff against LH ... He's never had poor splits and has probably been the best bat on the roster all year. Kyle Garlick doesnt deserve ABs over him due to splits. Any idea what they are doing ???

Keith Law

1:52

It's disappointing - he's old enough now to just let him play every day.

Edit: Oops I forgot what thread I was on. Not supposed to discuss here.