Correa potentially available again

[Squirrel]

Okay, y’all … you’ve gotten your jabs in … let’s move back to topic and maybe remember the peace of the season …

Gentle moderator rebuke over ,,, carry on, with the topic

[Nine of twelve]

24 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I don’t hate the White Sox, and if forced to choose, would choose them hands down over the Cubs. ?

I feel the same way. I don't hate any of the other ALC teams. When Lindor played in Cleveland he was my favorite non-Twin. But I still hope the other ALC teams all lose lots of games.

[CRF]

I almost hate to ask after all this...what is "The Trolley Dilemma"? I must have been under my rock when that one came up. 

[Rosterman]

$50m a year for three years with opt outs.

 

[Craig Arko]

3 minutes ago, CRF said:

I almost hate to ask after all this...what is "The Trolley Dilemma"? I must have been under my rock when that one came up. 

This might be helpful.

 

[cHawk]

Anything to bring Correa home would make me happy as a fan.

[Squirrel]

22 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

$50m a year for three years with opt outs.

 

If we are going to sign him I would like a bit lengthier contract without opt outs after each year. If he wants to sign with us, then stay with us a few years

 

[PseudoSABR]

There will be no further discount.  That's what Boras/Correa are communicating.  They may add certain provisions, contigencies, opt-outs, but they want the original terms to be largely honored.  

If the Twins sign him, it will be for the contract they offered. 285/10.

[Linus]

Ok Linus. I’m holding the football for you says Lucy. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Craig Arko said:

This might be helpful.

 

I suggest watching every episode of that show. Truly amazing tv. 

[Parfigliano]

4 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

I feel the same way. I don't hate any of the other ALC teams. When Lindor played in Cleveland he was my favorite non-Twin. But I still hope the other ALC teams all lose lots of games.

I hate the Yankees.  Always have.  Always will.

[Nine of twelve]

12 hours ago, Linus said:

Ok Linus. I’m holding the football for you says Lucy. 

Linus was too smart and knew Lucy too well to be suckered into that situation. It was Charlie Brown who was always the one to let his good-hearted faith in other people mask his ability to see that Lucy was not to be trusted.

[Linus]

1 hour ago, Nine of twelve said:

Linus was too smart and knew Lucy too well to be suckered into that situation. It was Charlie Brown who was always the one to let his good-hearted faith in other people mask his ability to see that Lucy was not to be trusted.

You are correct sir!

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

A medical expert came out and speculated what the most likely issue is if he is currently passing physicals but there is issues with imaging, is that arthritis is beginning to develop around the repair. This is something that would be reasonable why the Twins wouldn’t have had previous concerns. However it takes any of these long dated contracts off the table.  I don’t see any way the current Mets contract gets pass the finish line if this is the case.  Now it come down to how many years and how high of an AAV are teams willing to go and the Mets currently have the floor.  

[Riverbrian]

On 12/27/2022 at 8:29 AM, IA Bean Counter said:

However if the medical risk is big enough that 2 big market teams are unwilling to sign him,  should a smaller market team be willing to take on that risk?

The red dot? 

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, IA Bean Counter said:

A medical expert came out and speculated what the most likely issue is if he is currently passing physicals but there is issues with imaging, is that arthritis is beginning to develop around the repair. This is something that would be reasonable why the Twins wouldn’t have had previous concerns. However it takes any of these long dated contracts off the table.  I don’t see any way the current Mets contract gets pass the finish line if this is the case.  Now it come down to how many years and how high of an AAV are teams willing to go and the Mets currently have the floor.  

Right, exactly …

Ive said this before. I think it’s a long-term insurability issue as well as a ‘will this be a problem long term in ability to play’ issue. As Heezy noted, there is also no way to know if, how and when this might progress, if this is, indeed the issue. I know first hand how arthritis works, unfortunately.

But whatever the issue is, I don’t think it was an issue last year, at least not something that would deter signing a 1-3 yr contract. And the fact that he didn’t have major injury/health issues last year means it was fine. Did the Twins have insurance on that contract? Pretty sure they did or the flags would have been raised then. Or it was a cost they were willing to risk, which makes me more certain now that they knew then this was truly a one year-deal and/or they felt it was worth the risk. And they were correct and knew what they were doing. For those claiming the standards needing to be met are the same as a contract 4 times the length and 3-4 times the total value, no, they are not and I just don’t agree with that premise, 

I still think Correa will get a significant contract, but it won’t involve guaranteed money for the whole length. At least I hope not from the Twins, unless whatever terms they would agree to are able to be insured.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

49 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Right, exactly …

Ive said this before. I think it’s a long-term insurability issue as well as a ‘will this be a problem long term in ability to play’ issue. As Heezy noted, there is also no way to know if, how and when this might progress, if this is, indeed the issue. I know first hand how arthritis works, unfortunately.

But whatever the issue is, I don’t think it was an issue last year, at least not something that would deter signing a 1-3 yr contract. And the fact that he didn’t have major injury/health issues last year means it was fine. Did the Twins have insurance on that contract? Pretty sure they did or the flags would have been raised then. Or it was a cost they were willing to risk, which makes me more certain now that they knew then this was truly a one year-deal and/or they felt it was worth the risk. And they were correct and knew what they were doing. For those claiming the standards needing to be met are the same as a contract 4 times the length and 3-4 times the total value, no, they are not and I just don’t agree with that premise, 

I still think Correa will get a significant contract, but it won’t involve guaranteed money for the whole length. At least I hope not from the Twins, unless whatever terms they would agree to are able to be insured.

The most likely outcome is the arthritis wasn't there.  Even still I don't think arthritis developing will even inhibit a 5, 6 or 7 year contract.  It is the years after that are primarily at risk.  Now on MLB network they discussed this morning the possibility of the arthritis beginning to flair up,  then causing gait changes ect that would cause the back to flair up.  That would be a concern.  

Money wise what is the current situation.  Mets would likely have to increase the AAV by 8-10 mill a year,  with the tax of 90%  that is close to 20 million.  Even for someone with essentially unlimited resources I think that is likely too much for Cohen.  This is where the Twins could come back into play.  The Giants I believe have spent the majority of their dollars on Conforto and Rogers.  Maybe the twins would have a bit of an issue with the 2 contracts they signed,  20 mil,  but my guess is they could still maneuver to get it covered.  Whether it is still a smart contract to do or not,  that is the question.  I am guessing 6 for 210 million is what is likely to get agreed to.   35 mil a year.  

[SteveLV]

It has now been over a week since the Mets "deal" was announced.  Even allowing for the Christmas holidays, obviously there is no easy solution as far as Boras. Correa and the Mets are concerned.

Certainly opens up the market for Correa again to something creative, but the Mets still should be in the driver's seat with the large market, great team on paper, and his friendship with Lindor.

Twins would need appear to need to sell remaining at SS and perhaps a shorter, higher AAV contract to bring him back.  I would greatly prefer something like 5/$175 to buy his "tenderloin" years of 28-33 and avoid the years of more likely decline in his mid to late 30's.

[August J Gloop]

Cohen has played the Correa/Boras team like a fiddle. The fact that Correa didn't immediately fire Boras when the SFG debacle took place indicates that CC knew there could be trouble in the physical. I'm sure the Giants getting cold feet was kinodof a shock, but the quick signing of another Boras injury risk also implies that SFG didn't exactly piss Boras off with their abandon ship moment (unless that was their penance). 

Cohen being a true billionaire has no qualms getting in the mud on these deals, nor does he really give a rip if Correa is even good for the Mets. Correa on that team like driving a Bentley. He won't win them more games, but he'll get them more attention. He'll sell the new image of the Mets as the spend anything to win everything hotness.

At the same time, why waste any dollars you don't need to. Apparently Correa is so enamored with playing in NY that he'll abandon his position and now his self respect to sign whatever deal the Mets eventually make him take. I'm sure that 250-300 Million will buy a lot of self respect back, but in the clubhouse of High AAV, he's going to look like a wiener. It will even be worse next year when the players du jour are at 3B and Crazy Cohen decides he wants one (or both) of them. Correa will be a 28/per super utility guy. 

It also really puts water on any idea that Correa loved it here. If he'd had such a great time here, he'd be negotiating with the Twins to get closer to that guarantee, rather than continuing to be kicked around by Cohen, who has literally all the leverage, since Correa shows no sign of being willing to take another tack. 

[Wizard11]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:26 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

It was probably me the other time, too.

Honestly, it's just a slow day and I'm having a laugh over someone challenging a stranger's fandom on the internet because "reasons". It is, on its face, completely absurd.

Brock, I was struck by your super fandom and the similarities to Sarah Langs.  Her tagline of “baseball is the best” touch’s at the core of how many of us feel about the game.  I have lived in San Diego for 20 years and grew up in MN.  My 3 favorite teams are in this order, the Twins, Padres, and whoever is playing the Yankees.   For my part I appreciate your passion and ongoing work for many fans to support the game we love.  
 

Our world seems to have an over abundance of partisan mental midgets focused on being divisive.  I think what you are doing and contributing is awesome.  “Baseball is the best”

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

25 minutes ago, August J Gloop said:

Cohen has played the Correa/Boras team like a fiddle. The fact that Correa didn't immediately fire Boras when the SFG debacle took place indicates that CC knew there could be trouble in the physical. I'm sure the Giants getting cold feet was kinodof a shock, but the quick signing of another Boras injury risk also implies that SFG didn't exactly piss Boras off with their abandon ship moment (unless that was their penance). 

Cohen being a true billionaire has no qualms getting in the mud on these deals, nor does he really give a rip if Correa is even good for the Mets. Correa on that team like driving a Bentley. He won't win them more games, but he'll get them more attention. He'll sell the new image of the Mets as the spend anything to win everything hotness.

At the same time, why waste any dollars you don't need to. Apparently Correa is so enamored with playing in NY that he'll abandon his position and now his self respect to sign whatever deal the Mets eventually make him take. I'm sure that 250-300 Million will buy a lot of self respect back, but in the clubhouse of High AAV, he's going to look like a wiener. It will even be worse next year when the players du jour are at 3B and Crazy Cohen decides he wants one (or both) of them. Correa will be a 28/per super utility guy. 

It also really puts water on any idea that Correa loved it here. If he'd had such a great time here, he'd be negotiating with the Twins to get closer to that guarantee, rather than continuing to be kicked around by Cohen, who has literally all the leverage, since Correa shows no sign of being willing to take another tack. 

I think you are reading far too much into this.  Both Correa and Boras want the highest dollar, and they could care less where it comes from is my opinion.  Cohen has more money to blow essentially, so I would still say the Mets have the advantage in offering a higher contract than the Twins if they are still interested.  I still don't see anyway a smaller contract isn't less than $200 million.  The issue Cohen is fighting is the luxury tax,  so every extra mil in extra AAV is an extra mil in Taxes.   So if the AAV goes up 10 mil,  he is paying 20 mil.   Due to the 13 year contract I would say Cohen is already at a pain point is my guess.  The radio silence seems to benefit the Mets and Correa getting something resolved,  the length of the radio silence continues to point to another team ultimately getting his services on shorter term deal.  If the Mets don't close the deal by Saturday,  My guess is he signs with another Team.  However those able to pay to get something done are just a few.  Twins, Red Sox, Cardinals in that order would be my guess.  Giants have spent more money after the deal fell through,  and I think have a bad taste in their mouth from the fallout of the original deal.   I don't see anyway the current deal goes through and I don't see anyway Correa will put in a clause that negates the contract in the later years if he gets injured.   

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Wizard11 said:

Brock, I was struck by your super fandom and the similarities to Sarah Langs.  Her tagline of “baseball is the best” touch’s at the core of how many of us feel about the game.  I have lived in San Diego for 20 years and grew up in MN.  My 3 favorite teams are in this order, the Twins, Padres, and whoever is playing the Yankees.   For my part I appreciate your passion and ongoing work for many fans to support the game we love.  

Our world seems to have an over abundance of partisan mental midgets focused on being divisive.  I think what you are doing and contributing is awesome.  “Baseball is the best”

This is kind of how I fan, too. I've spent substantial portions of my life in Minnesota, Wisconsin, San Diego, and Los Angeles. My first team is the Twins. My second is probably the Brewers. Third is the Padres. I was once an Angels fan but having watched that franchise waste Trout and Ohtani for so long, I can't really stomach them anymore. If they returned to not being so wildly incompetent, I may lightly cheer for them again.

But notice that none of these fandoms really conflict with one another. I'm not much of a Dodgers fan other than "Vin Scully" because it's hard to cheer on the Padres and Dodgers. That, to me, feels wrong. Others may feel differently and that's fine, too.

Fan how you want to fan. Just don't step on my toes with your personal preferences.

In the end, I just kinda like baseball. I'll randomly flip on a Pirates/Marlins game because it's so much fun to watch Oneil Cruz play short.

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

The question is: what is the shelf life of a player who got this surgery in 2014? The Twins knew about what the ankle looked like and figured about 18-20 years is about right and offered 10 years. The Giants & Mets were not privy to the info before reaching deals with Boras. If they knew what the ankle looked like, would they have offered a 13 & 12 year contract, respectively?

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, Wizard11 said:

My 3 favorite teams are in this order, the Twins, Padres, and whoever is playing the Yankees.

Not a bad top 3.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is kind of how I fan, too. I've spent substantial portions of my life in Minnesota, Wisconsin, San Diego, and Los Angeles. My first team is the Twins. My second is probably the Brewers. Third is the Padres. I was once an Angels fan but having watched that franchise waste Trout and Ohtani for so long, I can't really stomach them anymore. If they returned to not being so wildly incompetent, I may lightly cheer for them again.

But notice that none of these fandoms really conflict with one another. I'm not much of a Dodgers fan other than "Vin Scully" because it's hard to cheer on the Padres and Dodgers. That, to me, feels wrong. Others may feel differently and that's fine, too.

Fan how you want to fan. Just don't step on my toes with your personal preferences.

In the end, I just kinda like baseball. I'll randomly flip on a Pirates/Marlins game because it's so much fun to watch Oneil Cruz play short.

NM

[Brock Beauchamp]

13 minutes ago, IA Bean Counter said:

So when those with the megaphone state we should be done with management and the Twins are effectively done and have no chance to compete and they are effectively done with their fandom . . .

Except I didn't actually say any of that. If you go back and read what I wrote, it started with "I'm done with this front office". In no way did I imply everyone should be done with this front office, much less the entire Twins franchise (which are two wildly different things, really). I was venting my personal frustration at the way this front office approaches offseasons and lots of other things. I didn't attack the front office, I just stated I don't like how they operate a lot of the time and that has led to me being apathetic toward the franchise right now.

Surely you see the difference between me stating an opinion and me telling someone else - a stranger, mind you - how to be a fan.

[Otaknam]

If Correa wants to opt back in for the next year or two year as per his previous contract then great! I would insist on removing the no trade clause, however. Otherwise just move on instead of again being manipulated by Scott Boros.

[h2oface]

4 hours ago, Wizard11 said:

Brock, I was struck by your super fandom and the similarities to Sarah Langs.  Her tagline of “baseball is the best” touch’s at the core of how many of us feel about the game.  I have lived in San Diego for 20 years and grew up in MN.  My 3 favorite teams are in this order, the Twins, Padres, and whoever is playing the Yankees.   For my part I appreciate your passion and ongoing work for many fans to support the game we love.  
 

Our world seems to have an over abundance of partisan mental midgets focused on being divisive.  I think what you are doing and contributing is awesome.  “Baseball is the best”

Absolutely. Baseball fan first. Teams come second. Of course there is a favorite. It ususally is the childhood first team. The Twins are mine. But I love baseball and often find myself disgusted with the Twins, especially as strangers are bought as a FO to be the ones that make all the decisions, get rid of favorite players, and make my favorite team a team of strangers and 5 inning starters. l like to follow favorite players. I like other teams, and follow about 5, especially when they play great baseball, steal bases, have pitchers that pitch deep into games, etc. I feel sorry for the extreme fans that put their "team" above "the game". There are so many reasons to become ambivalent about the fav. It is great to go to a game with no favorite and just enjoy the game without emotion. Batter up!

[JD-TWINS]

Move on from CC!!

Extend pitchers that perform this year by July 1st to show good faith & hopefully spend less $. Gray - Maeda - Mahle are all good targets for future. Maeda is 35 but his arm just got a reversal in time with surgery. All worth 3 more years with early success in ‘23!

Hunt for FA needs next year after we see how the young bats develop in ‘23 & we see if our SS of the future is in the organization by August.

Sign a reliever or 2 NOW from FA market.

All spending can happen if we move on from CC.

[Squirrel]

48 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Move on from CC!!

Extend pitchers that perform this year by July 1st to show good faith & hopefully spend less $. Gray - Maeda - Mahle are all good targets for future. Maeda is 35 but his arm just got a reversal in time with surgery. All worth 3 more years with early success in ‘23!

Hunt for FA needs next year after we see how the young bats develop in ‘23 & we see if our SS of the future is in the organization by August.

Sign a reliever or 2 NOW from FA market.

All spending can happen if we move on from CC.

I disagree that this is an either/or. And it would depend on what contract C4 would get. That said, he won’t be signing here.