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NY State of Mind: Urshela and Sanchez Re-visited


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Ted recently had an OP on Friday the 13th...definitely some irony there...that was less than complimentary regarding what we've seen from Urshela and Sanchez to this point, and all very fair. But a week later, after some wins, I felt like taking a moment to look at a few things regarding recent production of this pair, especially after various other threads regarding the lineup/roster in general, and any future impact of Royce Lewis in particular. Now, I'm NOT trying to create another Lewis debate thread by any means, and I know his future presence will come in to play here, but my general focus is on these two lost souls who have escaped the hell of being Yankees for the joy of joining our favorite team. (Just couldn't help being a little sparky there for fun).

I don't think it's a stretch at all to say Urshela's defense at 3B has been outstanding! And it's been a joy to watch. His offense thus far, except maybe the first couple of games, has frankly been offensive. He bloomed in NY in 2019 and 2020 and posted really solid numbers across the board. Even in a somewhat disappointing 2021, possibly affected by a covid battle, his overall production wasn't terrible, though slightly below league average. (Please go back and read Ted's detailed information). I have no doubt the Twins were hoping for a mean of all three seasons. And if that were to happen, coupled with his defense, we have a pretty nice ballplayer here! But that just hasn't happened as of yet. But I think there may be evidence that Urshela is at least reaching the corner, even if he hasn't rounded it yet.

LAST 15 GAMES: .151 AVG/ .203 OB/ .302 SLG

LAST 7 GAMES: .222 AVG/ .276 OB/ .444 SLG

A pair of HR and 6 RBI during the 15 game stretch. Should we be excited? HELL NO! But when you go from virtual zero, even worse than your career numbers before 2019, to actual improvement in the last week or so, don't you have to believe/speculate some additional improvement to the mean? The point is he's showing signs of life as a hitter lately. He's outstanding at 3B defensively. While I never watched him closely playing SS with the Yanks, they at least thought he was a solid filler there. He's seldom played 1B or 2B in his career. But if you can be that good at 3B and at least solid at SS, you should be able to play 1B and some 2B, though not everyone can perfect the pivot. He hits his amalgam of the past 3yrs, the rest of the way, he's a valuable part of the club, even if you move him around. He hits a little less, he can still be valuable as a utility player and decent RH bat with some power and a good/great glove who may be gone 2023/2024 but still has value NOW. NOT blowing smoke. He's not part of the future. But ANY sign of life from his bat is a good thing considering his recent past and his defense. 

And then there is Gary Sanchez. I have nothing against the man other than being a Yankee in his previous life. His arm is very strong! He has tremendous power. And he's been a shadow of his previous prospect and first few years at the ML level. I wasn't crazy about him as our 2nd catcher and a DH option. But I could live with him for a season if he just improved a little bit in both phases with a new start. Hopeful and optimistic, I was resigned for 1yr. Jeffers is still our best catcher and potential he hasn't reached yet, IMO. I believe he's going to be a stalwart. But I have been genuinely impressed by Sanchez behind the plate. Not great, but he has not been the butcher I thought he would be. (Make up your own minds, but don't let pre-conceived notions cloud yourself like I did initially). He's been solid. The bat is, and has been, a HUGE question mark, not only in NY, but the start of his Twins career. No question he got off to a rough start, and had at least 2-3 HR denied by bad weather and possibly a dead ball that might have made a difference in a few games. But let's look at his recent numbers as well.

 

LAST 15 GAMES: .255 AVG/ .349 OB/ .545 SLG

LAST 7 GAMES:  .308 AVG/ .419 OB/ .808 SLG

Three HR and 9 RBI  over the last 15G to give him 4HR and 17 RBI. He's currently 3rd on the team in RBI.

Hot streaks and cold streaks happen. And I predict nothing long term for either Urshela or Sanchez. But as the Twins are winning and the weather is warming up as well, isn't at least possible Urshela is approaching his previous production? Isn't it possible the whole "change of scenery" ...and changes in coaching defense...isn't  giving Sanchez a new life on his career? We're absolutely talking SSS. But a bad few weeks to  begin the season is also SSS, right?

Urshela will be pushed out, eventually, by Lewis, a better Miranda, Steer, Julian, and Arraez, and Gordon, almost assuredly. But if he keeps playing great defense and turns that corner offensively, he just might stick around another year.  Sanchez is a different story. He's primed to hit FA next year. And if he continues his recent upward swing offensively with better defense, he might just get a decent deal. 

A TON of "what if" and "potential" for both of these guys. And both could easily be gone next year. But these aren't awful players by any stretch. In fact, they could pay dividends the rest of the season. Do you see Urshela and Sanchez being a part of the rest of the season with recent upticks and potential? Or do you see something very different going forward?

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Nice article.  I like both guys but Urshela isn't quite holding up his end of the bargain offensively.  IMO he is too valuable with extra year of control to dump but unless his bat improves dramatically I see Royce Lewis at his spot.  I think the Twins would still like to get value for Urshela at the deadline so they will keep him there and trade him and maybe another prospect at the deadline for something the team can use now or in the future.  I just don't see the Twins keeping him as there doesn't seem to be room and unless his bat improves dramatically there is no reason to hang onto him.

I did not like Sanchez but given the fact that he is currently hitting better than Mitch Garver and playing pretty well it makes me wonder if the Twins will bring him back after this year.  They don't have much after Jeffers and I think Sanchez is good enough to be a backup catcher.  He needs to keep hitting but I think he will.

I do like both players more than I expected I just think Lewis fits better in Urshela's spot until Correa is gone.

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Sánchez probably is pricing himself out of a role for the Twins in 2023. Acceptable defense plus an OPS+ of 128 is not a profile of a backup catcher. 
 

Urshela is the Twins’ primary third baseman for now. Given how many injuries occur, having an experienced player who could start at a couple positions on a good team is a good thing. In I’m not a fan of his offense, not from the numbers, but the approach, which seems to be “swing early and after that just try to make contact”. 
 

It’s too soon to make judgments on the former Yankees. They are professionals and are assets to the club. One year of Sánchez and two of Urshela for a good player (Kiner-Falafa) and Josh Donaldson and his contract could be a good deal for both clubs. 

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The best thing about that deal...is dumping Donaldson. It almost didn't/doesn't matter to me who we got for him. I'm not particularly a big fan of Urshela or Sanchez, and I never was. Sanchez is nothing special as a catcher or hitter, and Urshela is really just a back up infielder. Basically...good field, no hit. One thing for sure, Urshela is crushing it defensively. I would shop both those guys at the deadline and see what develops. 

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41 minutes ago, CRF said:

The best thing about that deal...is dumping Donaldson. It almost didn't/doesn't matter to me who we got for him. I'm not particularly a big fan of Urshela or Sanchez, and I never was. Sanchez is nothing special as a catcher or hitter, and Urshela is really just a back up infielder. Basically...good field, no hit. One thing for sure, Urshela is crushing it defensively. I would shop both those guys at the deadline and see what develops. 

Agree with your thoughts on dumping Donaldson 100%. Twins could have received less and I'd still have been happy.

As for dangling Sanchez and Urshela in July, I'm not sure if they're really shoppable - at least not to AL teams.

Honestly if the Twins are in the playoff picture come the trade deadline, I can't see them getting rid of serviceable pieces. Having a backup catcher like Sanchez who can DH part time if needed is a luxury the Twins might just keep if they are looking to make a run this year. Having a defense-first IF like Urshela is, again, a piece the Twins may want to hang on to if they are in the picture.

 

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Nice post! Just wanted to point out that Urshela is currently leading the league in ground ball double plays with 10 in just 109 ABs. 9.2% of his ABs so far have ended in a ground ball double play, an absolutely baffling number considering he only has 109 ABs, and his previous career high was 16 in 420 ABs.

If he can stop beating the ball into the ground to the left side, we might be able to create a few more rallies since GDPs are inning-killers. 

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The Twins have had a pretty nice long run of really useful utility infielders, and I still think Urshela could join that group. I think his offense was likely aided by Yankee Stadium (.824 career OPS at Yankee Stadium, .697 OPS on the road), but I think he's still a much better hitter than what we've seen.

As for Sanchez, his defensive disaster rating was highly overstated; he's nowhere near as bad behind the plate as advertised. But of course Yankee fans are prone to exaggeration. 

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I would agree that Urshella has been good on the defense side of the ball.  He has missed some plays but made some crazy good plays too.  However, on offense he has not been good, despite some HR.  He has failed to get it done with runners on base, kind of reminding me of Trevor Plouffe, hits when bases are empty but once there is someone he will fail. 

Sanchez has been better at catcher than I expected.  On offense he is heating up and will hit plenty of HR as season goes on.  He has been hitting the ball hard most of the season.  What I wish he would improve on is his chases.  There is a fine line between not taking a third strike and expanding the zone too much.  I know he will continue to swing when there are 2 strikes as he will not allow a called third strike on him in most at bats.  I had issues with him continuing to hit middle of line up when he was not doing much, but right now ride the hot streak. 

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1 hour ago, CRF said:

The best thing about that deal...is dumping Donaldson. It almost didn't/doesn't matter to me who we got for him. I'm not particularly a big fan of Urshela or Sanchez, and I never was. Sanchez is nothing special as a catcher or hitter, and Urshela is really just a back up infielder. Basically...good field, no hit. One thing for sure, Urshela is crushing it defensively. I would shop both those guys at the deadline and see what develops. 

I agree.

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6 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Trade Ursella before the trade deadline. We don't have another catcher, so we must keep Sanchez and try to find a young, defensive minded catcher (we had one, but he is a Yankee now).

Correction, Ben Rortvedt never made it into any Yankees' games due to a Spring Training oblique injury. He was rehabbing in Florida and he had a meniscus problem and had knee surgery May 18 and is out 6-8 weeks. I wish for a quick, complete recovery for him. But knee surgery for catchers are bad news. 

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38 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

For those happy the Twins unloaded Donaldson.....he currently has a WAR of 1.7, which is more than Urshela, Sanchez, and Correa combined.

Exactly. The Pohlad's have conditioned Twins fans to think that we can't afford a real payroll so we needed to dump Donaldson to get Correa. We didn't need to. We could have had both of them. Donaldson is a great player - he'd lead the Twins in WAR right now. He gets on base, has power, and is a better defender than given credit for. 

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Don't get the push for trading either of them. Sanchez is the only other reasonable option at C for the Twins after Jeffers. He's a very important piece to this season. Urshela can play all over the IF if needed. I don't think Urshela should be locked in as the starting 3B (bring Lewis back!), or Sanchez as the DH, but they're certainly useful pieces to this team. And they wouldn't bring anything special in trade anyways. If they're not good enough to play for the Twins why would another team want to trade useful pieces for them? Don't let them block anyone, but certainly don't just dump useful MLB players for nothing.

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1 hour ago, LewFordLives said:

For those happy the Twins unloaded Donaldson.....he currently has a WAR of 1.7, which is more than Urshela, Sanchez, and Correa combined.

Donaldson is performing better in NY than he did in his two years with Twins.  He has better dwar right now in 35 games than his whole time as a Twin. He is doing better than he did in MN.  It could be the change of team, the different line up, or change in how he is used on defense that is making these numbers.  We do not know if he would be performing at same level.  It could be he just was not right for what Twins wanted, or maybe his legs are staying healthy in NY. 

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I definitely agree with the comment about it being early for real judgements. Or WAR ratings out of context. Or how healthy Donaldson seems (in mid-May). If that holds, maybe it works for both teams; which is okay.

But it definitely looks to me like the Twins are light-years ahead defensively on the left side (Urshela/Correa/Lewis over Gimp Donaldson/Eccentric Simmons/Raw Gordon). Sanchez was awful defensively last year (not just NY opinion, but statistically the worst in baseball), but he is adequate on D this year with the bat coming to life. Hopefully that continues (I actually don't dread seeing him in the DH role lately.)

Hope Urshela's bat comes to life, because I purely love watching him at 3B defensively. If it doesn't, we'll have plenty of options (Miranda if he starts hitting, Lewis if Miranda doesn't; Spencer Steer and Christian Encarnacion-Strand coming up through the system).

Disagree, through, with the comment about being able to afford both Donaldson and Correa (or that we should spend $300 million to lock up Correa, which wasn't stated here). Big market teams have an obvious advantage in the size of their fan base, but possibly even more, teams like NYY, Boston, Atlanta, Cubs, etc, have HUGE cash cow local TV deals, and the Twins have BSN, which can't even figure out a way to make their broadcasts readily available for many potential viewers.

So budget matters, bad contracts can cripple the ability to make roster moves, and long term bad deals are really bad. Doesn't mean we can't win; just means we can't do it the Yankee or Dodger way.

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50 minutes ago, PatPfund said:

I definitely agree with the comment about it being early for real judgements. Or WAR ratings out of context. Or how healthy Donaldson seems (in mid-May). If that holds, maybe it works for both teams; which is okay.

But it definitely looks to me like the Twins are light-years ahead defensively on the left side (Urshela/Correa/Lewis over Gimp Donaldson/Eccentric Simmons/Raw Gordon). Sanchez was awful defensively last year (not just NY opinion, but statistically the worst in baseball), but he is adequate on D this year with the bat coming to life. Hopefully that continues (I actually don't dread seeing him in the DH role lately.)

Hope Urshela's bat comes to life, because I purely love watching him at 3B defensively. If it doesn't, we'll have plenty of options (Miranda if he starts hitting, Lewis if Miranda doesn't; Spencer Steer and Christian Encarnacion-Strand coming up through the system).

Disagree, through, with the comment about being able to afford both Donaldson and Correa (or that we should spend $300 million to lock up Correa, which wasn't stated here). Big market teams have an obvious advantage in the size of their fan base, but possibly even more, teams like NYY, Boston, Atlanta, Cubs, etc, have HUGE cash cow local TV deals, and the Twins have BSN, which can't even figure out a way to make their broadcasts readily available for many potential viewers.

So budget matters, bad contracts can cripple the ability to make roster moves, and long term bad deals are really bad. Doesn't mean we can't win; just means we can't do it the Yankee or Dodger way.

I fully agree with your comments on the signing bad long term contracts.  Yes, the Twins can afford to sign some guys to long term deals and maybe afford a larger payroll, people need to remember even though owners have billions they are still business people and losing money as a business is not a good business.  I have said for years, to sign a player to a long term deal you need to be sure they are the right guy.  Signing a guy like Donaldson to 4 year deal like they did, if he was terrible they are not tied to him for years playing a bad player.  Look at some of the deals of future HOF Pujols and Cabrera, both of which did not win a WS with their teams they signed huge deals with.  

Once Pujols hit age 36, he was getting paid at least 25 mil a year, an extra mil each year, and had negative WAR.  Meaning LA was paying him over 25 mil a year to be a player that should not be playing. Cabrera hit 34 and was getting paid 28 mil or more and has been negative WAR.  Those are just two examples of guys that are likely to go to HOF and shows how much of a drop off you get when they hit mid 30s.  

Locking up Correa on a 10 year deal will have at minimum a couple of dead years, but as a SS most likely his defense will start to drop before his bat does.  Then you are shifting him to a lower impact position.  Some teams can afford to do this, but most cannot.  Now, if Correa would take a 7 year deal at top pay I would think that is a risk the Twins can take, but reports are he is looking for 10 plus.  The first 5 years most likely you are getting fair value, the next couple is a bit more of a risk, but last three is not likely to be anywhere close to good value, and now you are stuck with them.

Remember when everyone was mad about Joe's contract at the end?  Everyone would say same about Correa by the end.  Now, if the Twins are willing to take that risk of being very overpaid the last few years and believe the first 5 to 7 years will be worth bad years, then go for it. 

However, that is something people need to think about is down the road.  I am not even getting in on pitching as they are even more a risk when signing them long term.  

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21 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Ted recently had an OP on Friday the 13th...definitely some irony there...that was less than complimentary regarding what we've seen from Urshela and Sanchez to this point, and all very fair. But a week later, after some wins, I felt like taking a moment to look at a few things regarding recent production of this pair, especially after various other threads regarding the lineup/roster in general, and any future impact of Royce Lewis in particular. Now, I'm NOT trying to create another Lewis debate thread by any means, and I know his future presence will come in to play here, but my general focus is on these two lost souls who have escaped the hell of being Yankees for the joy of joining our favorite team. (Just couldn't help being a little sparky there for fun).

I don't think it's a stretch at all to say Urshela's defense at 3B has been outstanding! And it's been a joy to watch. His offense thus far, except maybe the first couple of games, has frankly been offensive. He bloomed in NY in 2019 and 2020 and posted really solid numbers across the board. Even in a somewhat disappointing 2021, possibly affected by a covid battle, his overall production wasn't terrible, though slightly below league average. (Please go back and read Ted's detailed information). I have no doubt the Twins were hoping for a mean of all three seasons. And if that were to happen, coupled with his defense, we have a pretty nice ballplayer here! But that just hasn't happened as of yet. But I think there may be evidence that Urshela is at least reaching the corner, even if he hasn't rounded it yet.

LAST 15 GAMES: .151 AVG/ .203 OB/ .302 SLG

LAST 7 GAMES: .222 AVG/ .276 OB/ .444 SLG

A pair of HR and 6 RBI during the 15 game stretch. Should we be excited? HELL NO! But when you go from virtual zero, even worse than your career numbers before 2019, to actual improvement in the last week or so, don't you have to believe/speculate some additional improvement to the mean? The point is he's showing signs of life as a hitter lately. He's outstanding at 3B defensively. While I never watched him closely playing SS with the Yanks, they at least thought he was a solid filler there. He's seldom played 1B or 2B in his career. But if you can be that good at 3B and at least solid at SS, you should be able to play 1B and some 2B, though not everyone can perfect the pivot. He hits his amalgam of the past 3yrs, the rest of the way, he's a valuable part of the club, even if you move him around. He hits a little less, he can still be valuable as a utility player and decent RH bat with some power and a good/great glove who may be gone 2023/2024 but still has value NOW. NOT blowing smoke. He's not part of the future. But ANY sign of life from his bat is a good thing considering his recent past and his defense. 

And then there is Gary Sanchez. I have nothing against the man other than being a Yankee in his previous life. His arm is very strong! He has tremendous power. And he's been a shadow of his previous prospect and first few years at the ML level. I wasn't crazy about him as our 2nd catcher and a DH option. But I could live with him for a season if he just improved a little bit in both phases with a new start. Hopeful and optimistic, I was resigned for 1yr. Jeffers is still our best catcher and potential he hasn't reached yet, IMO. I believe he's going to be a stalwart. But I have been genuinely impressed by Sanchez behind the plate. Not great, but he has not been the butcher I thought he would be. (Make up your own minds, but don't let pre-conceived notions cloud yourself like I did initially). He's been solid. The bat is, and has been, a HUGE question mark, not only in NY, but the start of his Twins career. No question he got off to a rough start, and had at least 2-3 HR denied by bad weather and possibly a dead ball that might have made a difference in a few games. But let's look at his recent numbers as well.

 

LAST 15 GAMES: .255 AVG/ .349 OB/ .545 SLG

LAST 7 GAMES:  .308 AVG/ .419 OB/ .808 SLG

Three HR and 9 RBI  over the last 15G to give him 4HR and 17 RBI. He's currently 3rd on the team in RBI.

Hot streaks and cold streaks happen. And I predict nothing long term for either Urshela or Sanchez. But as the Twins are winning and the weather is warming up as well, isn't at least possible Urshela is approaching his previous production? Isn't it possible the whole "change of scenery" ...and changes in coaching defense...isn't  giving Sanchez a new life on his career? We're absolutely talking SSS. But a bad few weeks to  begin the season is also SSS, right?

Urshela will be pushed out, eventually, by Lewis, a better Miranda, Steer, Julian, and Arraez, and Gordon, almost assuredly. But if he keeps playing great defense and turns that corner offensively, he just might stick around another year.  Sanchez is a different story. He's primed to hit FA next year. And if he continues his recent upward swing offensively with better defense, he might just get a decent deal. 

A TON of "what if" and "potential" for both of these guys. And both could easily be gone next year. But these aren't awful players by any stretch. In fact, they could pay dividends the rest of the season. Do you see Urshela and Sanchez being a part of the rest of the season with recent upticks and potential? Or do you see something very different going forward?

What are we using that says Urshela is an outstanding defensive 3B? I see it parroted all over TD, but just eyeballing his defensive stats I see average marks. The larger problem though, is that he hasn't hit for any power. Like none. His HR on the 15th was his first in over a month. The only palatable part of the 7 game triple slash you posted was his slugging, otherwise the rest was more of the same. Unless we're expecting him to double his career high in HRs, that slugging will slide back down too. 

I think Sanchez just is what he is at this point; a decent power bat that will hit in the low .200s, strike out a ton, and be below average defensively. Basically, he's the catching version of Miguel Sano. If Jeffers wasn't scuffling at the plate, and Sanchez was't used so frequently as a DH, it'd be easier to ride the ups and downs.

Edited by KirbyDome89
Can't spell apparently
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4 hours ago, Trov said:

Donaldson is performing better in NY than he did in his two years with Twins.  He has better dwar right now in 35 games than his whole time as a Twin. He is doing better than he did in MN.  It could be the change of team, the different line up, or change in how he is used on defense that is making these numbers.  We do not know if he would be performing at same level.  It could be he just was not right for what Twins wanted, or maybe his legs are staying healthy in NY. 

I contend Donaldson's personality fits the Yankees better than his personality fits the Twins.

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6 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Exactly. The Pohlad's have conditioned Twins fans to think that we can't afford a real payroll so we needed to dump Donaldson to get Correa. We didn't need to. We could have had both of them. Donaldson is a great player - he'd lead the Twins in WAR right now. He gets on base, has power, and is a better defender than given credit for. 

Sorry to butt in, but I've been thinking about this take a lot. Obviously I'd prefer if ownership spent more money, but I find it more interesting to evaluate the moves the front office makes within the payroll constraints that the Pohlads impose on them than it is to think about what they could do if the Pohlads just spent more. If I ever say that it was smart for the front office to get rid of someone good as a salary dump, that comes with an implied great big asterisk indicating that of course it would be even better if they just raised payroll instead.

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2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I contend Donaldson's personality fits the Yankees better than his personality fits the Twins.

Why?  How or what info says this?

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36 minutes ago, Unwinder said:

Sorry to butt in, but I've been thinking about this take a lot. Obviously I'd prefer if ownership spent more money, but I find it more interesting to evaluate the moves the front office makes within the payroll constraints that the Pohlads impose on them than it is to think about what they could do if the Pohlads just spent more. If I ever say that it was smart for the front office to get rid of someone good as a salary dump, that comes with an implied great big asterisk indicating that of course it would be even better if they just raised payroll instead.

They saved roughly $10M in the swaps with TX and NY. That's essentially the difference in payroll between this season and last, with this season being on the low end. Is $10M nothing? No, but I sincerely doubt the FO is up against the self imposed cap at present. 

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4 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

What are we using that says Urshela is an outstanding defensive 3B? I see it parroted all over TD, but just eyeballing his defensive stats I see average marks. The larger problem though, is that he hasn't hit for any power. Like none. His HR on the 15th was his first in over a month. The only palatable part of the 7 game triple slash you posted was his slugging, otherwise the rest was more of the same. Unless we're expecting him to double his career high in HRs, that slugging will slide back down too. 

I think Sanchez just is what he is at this point; a decent power bat that will hit in the low .200s, strike out a ton, and be below average defensively. Basically, he's the catching version of Miguel Sano. If Jeffers wasn't scuffling at the plate, and Sanchez was't used so frequently as a DH, it'd be easier to ride the ups and downs.

I believe Sanchez is more than a catcher version of Sano.  First he is a leader with playoff experience.  Second he is healthy.  Third he's been an above average back up catcher by any metric.  Not a fan of his...but a really solid addition to this team.

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13 hours ago, CRF said:

The best thing about that deal...is dumping Donaldson. It almost didn't/doesn't matter to me who we got for him. I'm not particularly a big fan of Urshela or Sanchez, and I never was. Sanchez is nothing special as a catcher or hitter, and Urshela is really just a back up infielder. Basically...good field, no hit. One thing for sure, Urshela is crushing it defensively. I would shop both those guys at the deadline and see what develops. 

I absolutely agree, dumping the Donaldson contract for ANYTHING was a win. 

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37 minutes ago, se7799 said:

I believe Sanchez is more than a catcher version of Sano.  First he is a leader with playoff experience.  Second he is healthy.  Third he's been an above average back up catcher by any metric.  Not a fan of his...but a really solid addition to this team.

The leadership stuff is nonsense. If that's the hill you want to die on go for it. FWIW he has terrible postseason numbers, so he clearly wasn't leading by example. 

He's below average defensively. That's not even debatable at this point. His value is derived from his offensive production, and each of the last few seasons that's been pretty much league average. Is that terrible from the C position? No, but if you're a net negative defensively then you better be more than just average with the bat. 

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24 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

The leadership stuff is nonsense. If that's the hill you want to die on go for it. FWIW he has terrible postseason numbers, so he clearly wasn't leading by example. 

He's below average defensively. That's not even debatable at this point. His value is derived from his offensive production, and each of the last few seasons that's been pretty much league average. Is that terrible from the C position? No, but if you're a net negative defensively then you better be more than just average with the bat. 

Leadership is nonsense?  That's a heck of a take...not one I've heard....like ever.  Does take observation and many times in person to see it..FWIW.  What metric are you using to say he is a net negative defensively this season?  Just comparing his season to Sanos is off by any way you look at it.

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The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund

You all care about this site. The next step is caring for it. We’re asking you to caretake this site so it can remain the premiere Twins community on the internet.

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