Front Page: Buxton's Season Over, Placed on 60-day Injured List

[HitInAPinch]

I love the fact that Buxton's offense is coming around.  Is there any way he will learn to stop smashing into the outfield walls like that?  5 years in the MLB and I would think he would learn how to read that long of a drive and take it off the wall.  

 

Still, only 25........

[puckstopper1]

 

So the Twins have 3 outfielders out right now (Cave, Buxton, and Kepler) and they choose to bring in an infielder? 

 

Agreed! If this was to happen, I was hoping that they would have brought up Kiriloff - especially with Kepler hurting and Rosario still not looking quite right.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Still, only 25........

 

Twenty-five years and my life is still
Trying to get up that great big hill of hope
For a destination...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NXnxTNIWkc

[Thrylos]

I think that it will behoove the Twins to trade him in a package for a top of the rotation starter, move Royce Lewis to CF, and play Kepler there until Lewis is ready for the majors.   A top of the rotation starter is a bigger need than 1/3 of a season for Buxton, which is all the Twins should be hoping from him.   He is that much injury prone.  RonDL White territory. Even in his last game, playing hurt he slid head first on a base that tried to reach with the hand of his injured shoulder.  That's not aggressiveness, it's something else...

Edited September 11, 2019 by Thrylos

[DocBauer]

Agreed! If this was to happen, I was hoping that they would have brought up Kiriloff - especially with Kepler hurting and Rosario still not looking quite right.

At the moment, infield is actually a bigger need with Marwin out. We have some bench warmers that can actually play a legitimate OF defensively to give someone a rest. Adrianza and Arraez can and have played some OF as well. But really, we're probably better off using them in their current role and using the spare part OF for what they are.

 

I understand the idea of bringing the talented and hot Kirilloff up for a shot. And by no means am I asking the Twins to NOT "go for it". But still, is a young AA OF really going to be the savior at this point? Is it really worth starting his clock at this point on a hope and prayer he is ready to ride a magic wave of opportunity through September and October?

 

It would be a great story. I just dont see it happening.

[Aerodeliria]

I have to say that there are some very interesting thoughts in this discussion.

[Mr. Brooks]

At the moment, infield is actually a bigger need with Marwin out. We have some bench warmers that can actually play a legitimate OF defensively to give someone a rest. Adrianza and Arraez can and have played some OF as well. But really, we're probably better off using them in their current role and using the spare part OF for what they are.

 

I understand the idea of bringing the talented and hot Kirilloff up for a shot. And by no means am I asking the Twins to NOT "go for it". But still, is a young AA OF really going to be the savior at this point? Is it really worth starting his clock at this point on a hope and prayer he is ready to ride a magic wave of opportunity through September and October?

 

It would be a great story. I just dont see it happening.

Yes, it's worth starting his clock.

We're talking about 20 days of service time here.

I hope the decision is because they don't think he's ready. If it's because of 20 days of service time, then this FO has lost all the goodwill they've earned from me - which is a lot.

 

I have no problem with service time games when you're losing 90 games. I have a big problem if it's even a consideration when you have a 100 win team.

[DocBauer]

Yes, it's worth starting his clock.

We're talking about 20 days of service time here.

I hope the decision is because they don't think he's ready. If it's because of 20 days of service time, then this FO has lost all the goodwill they've earned from me - which is a lot.

I have no problem with service time games when you're losing 90 games. I have a big problem if it's even a consideration when you have a 100 win team.

Just being 100% transparent, I continue to be confused on service time and options. I do know that when the clock winds, there are a number of factors involved in both, and they can move both forward and back, or be stagnate, depending on when a player is added, promoted, etc. That being said, I don't think 20 or so days woukd have affect on a Kiriloff decision whatsoever.

 

However, I do think options, 40 man decisions, and his readiness ARE factors.

 

Let me state something I have eagerly stated before, and that I think Kiriloff is as close to can't miss as you can get. I have repeatedly stated I think he is "special" and will be an outstanding hitter with contact and OB ability plus power, though how much power is yet to be determined. What I do doubt is ML readiness NOW to help. There are select few prospects, even top ones, who could jump to MLB at this/his point and actually make a difference to close out the season.

 

The Buxton blow is huge! But barring any additional setbacks, it appears Rosario, Kepler, Gonzalez and Cave should be OK soon and going forward. If that is not the case, we could have a different discussion on our hands.

[Blackjack]

 

I think that it will behoove the Twins to trade him in a package for a top of the rotation starter, move Royce Lewis to CF, and play Kepler there until Lewis is ready for the majors.   A top of the rotation starter is a bigger need than 1/3 of a season for Buxton, which is all the Twins should be hoping from him.   He is that much injury prone.  RonDL White territory. Even in his last game, playing hurt he slid head first on a base that tried to reach with the hand of his injured shoulder.  That's not aggressiveness, it's something else...

This says it all.  Its all in BB's head. He hasn't figured it out that he more help to the Twins on the field then he is on the DL. He's a terror on the base paths, he's starting to figure out the hitting so he gets on base more, that combo of offense combined with very good defense could make him a perennial all-star for years to come, and one of the Twins most valuable players. Instead he has it in his head that he has to get to every ball, regardless of the injury risk. I'd like to insert some choice terms here but you get the drift.

 

Posters say BB is what he is because of the aggressive play. They are correct but which is more valuable to the Twins (and better for BB's career) 60 games a year of super aggressive play and 100 games on the DL or 140 games of good offense/base running/and above average defense?? The kind of defense that very few can play but doesn't result in wall crashing/diving/running into other players???

 

BB, save the hi-light reel plays for the last out of the World Series and help the Twins get to the WS by staying healthy. Is that too much to ask?

[twinsnorth49]

Dang it. He was putting it all together. Dang it.

[Number3]

"Still only 25"

That is the point. Getting older does not help the injury situation. Plain fact is that Byron Buxton's career as a professional athlete is essentially over. He should have enough in his bank account, hopefully, to make his time spent worth while and proceed with the rest of his life. His retirement won't be immediate and he will no doubt be at ST next Feb/Mar but the handwriting is on the wall.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

... A foul ball offf his toe is not a product of his play.

Unless he accidentally kicked it on his way to first? Unlikely i grant, but he does run pretty fast.

[Thrylos]

 

 

Migraines are not a product of his play... A foul ball of his toe is not a product of his play. 

 

Migraines are yet another reason for him not playing every day, and yet another reason for the Twins to start thinking their future without him.

 

Whose bat hit that foul ball off his toe?  Unless someone else flailed at it, is a product of his play.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Thrylos

[Mike Sixel]

12:16
Oddball Herrera: Should the Twins give Kirilloff a shot rather than hope a bunch of randoms in the OF can carry them to the division title? Flags fly forever, right?

12:17
Avatar Dan Szymborski: I would.

 

mike sixel
1:29 Would you call up Kiriloff at this point? thanks<

 

Keith Law
1:29 Probably not.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Mike Sixel

[Riverbrian]

 

Migraines are yet another reason for him not playing every day, and yet another reason for the Twins to start thinking their future without him.

 

Whose bat hit that foul ball off his toe?  Unless someone else flailed at it, is a product of his play.

 

My response was based on the often stated concern that his all out style of play is the cause of his injuries. 

 

I'm merely pointing out that not all of his injuries are the result of him running 100 mph into the fence. 

 

If you are trying to point out that he is "injury prone". That is obvious based on the number of days he has spent on the Disabled list but that is a different discussion. 

[Jham]

Yes, it's worth starting his clock.

We're talking about 20 days of service time here.

I hope the decision is because they don't think he's ready. If it's because of 20 days of service time, then this FO has lost all the goodwill they've earned from me - which is a lot.

 

I have no problem with service time games when you're losing 90 games. I have a big problem if it's even a consideration when you have a 100 win team.

Especially since AK is about 100% to start next year in AA/AAA for probably half the season anyway. Healthy, he's currently behind Buck, Rosie, Kep, Cave, Wade, Margo, Rooker, and possibly Arraez and Tortuga or maybe even Raley. He'll need to hold off Larnach as well. He projects to be good enough that options won't matter much.

 

There's no roster reason not to bring him up.

 

That said, he hasn't demonstrated he's good enough yet. His slow start to the season may indicate he needs time to adjust. And MLB playoffs would be a steep curve. I'm also not convinced his short compact Hrbek swing translates to elite MLB hitter these days.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Jham

[Mike Sixel]

Especially since AK is about 100% to start next year in AA/AAA for probably half the season anyway. Healthy, he's currently behind Buck, Rosie, Kep, Cave, Wade, Margo, Rooker, and possibly Arraez and Tortuga or maybe even Raley. He'll need to hold off Larnach as well. He projects to be good enough that options won't matter much.

 

There's no roster reason not to bring him up.

 

That said, he hasn't demonstrated he's good enough yet. His slow start to the season may indicate he needs time to adjust. And MLB playoffs would be a steep curve. I'm also not convinced his short compact Hrbek swing translates to elite MLB hitter these days.

And the terrible options playing instead have? At least with Kirilloff there is a chance.

[Jham]

And the terrible options playing instead have? At least with Kirilloff there is a chance.

I didn't place Lamare ahead of him... I don't expect AK to rake right away, but I'd be excited to see him or Larnach or Rooker this season. Just doubt it makes the team any better unless the plan is to run out lamare and wade every night.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd like a team to play for upside, and stop worrying only about downside. There is no upside in some of these players being here. This is a year where you have a chance to win it all, take that chance, rather than be afraid it might not work.

[jorgenswest]

My first thought with Buxton out and Pineda’s suspension opening up a roster spot was Kirilloff.

 

I then went and looked and he really didn’t perform that well when returning from injury. He had a good end of season but minor league pitching is pretty thin at the end of the season. I think he is up if he dominated AA over the long stretch of the season. He didn’t. He wasn’t close to dominating. A .413 SLG for a power hitter isn’t encouraging. He probably should start at AA and dominate until June before heading to AAA next year.

 

My initial thought to call up Kirilloff was based on hope of who he might be some day based on 2018. I think he has a good ceiling but I don’t think he is anywhere near that ceiling this year and there is no reason it would be different against major league pitching.

 

I don’t see options. It is hard to plan for losing Buxton, Gonzalez and Kepler for a stretch. Add Rooker’s injury and Kirilloff’s set back due to injury and you get Wade and LaMarre.

Edited September 14, 2019 by jorgenswest

[Mike Sixel]

My first thought with Buxton out and Pineda’s suspension opening up a roster spot was Kirilloff.

 

I then went and looked and he really didn’t perform that well when returning from injury. He had a good end of season but minor league pitching is pretty thin at the end of the season. I think he is up if he dominated AA over the long stretch of the season. He didn’t. He wasn’t close to dominating. A .413 SLG for a power hitter isn’t encouraging. He probably should start at AA and dominate until June before heading to AAA next year.

 

My initial thought to call up Kirilloff was based on hope of who he might be some day based on 2018. I think he has a good ceiling but I don’t think he is anywhere near that ceiling this year and there is no reason it would be different against major league pitching.

 

I don’t see options. It is hard to plan for losing Buxton, Gonzalez and Kepler for a stretch. Add Rooker’s injury and Kirilloff’s set back due to injury and you get Wade and LaMarre.

Or you take a chance on upside. Or not, and just play guys you know are bad.

[John Kelsey]

Take a look at Kyle Lewis and Nico Hoerner's minor league numbers and MLB numbers since their recent call ups. 

 

Minor league numbers are meaningful but sometimes the talent just kicks in at the highest level. 

[yarnivek1972]

Or you take a chance on upside. Or not, and just play guys you know are bad.

Wade had a .750 OPS at AAA. Why would you have any reason to believe that a guy who had a .750 OPS at AA would be better?

[Mike Sixel]

Wade had a .750 OPS at AAA. Why would you have any reason to believe that a guy who had a .750 OPS at AA would be better?

Well, LaMarre is also there and playing. And, Kirilloff is a better hitter than Wade. And, Kirilloff hit better as he got healthier.

 

Again, play it safe, or play for upside? In a playoff year? Upside.

[jorgenswest]

It is hard to see any 2019 upside in Kirilloff. I do believe in his upside and look forward to his bat at 26 and hope that it arrives sooner. He needs to consistently hit in AA first. He didn’t.

[Mike Sixel]

It is hard to see any 2019 upside in Kirilloff. I do believe in his upside and look forward to his bat at 26 and hope that it arrives sooner. He needs to consistently hit in AA first. He didn’t.

26?

 

Good golly, he's a top fifty prospect....

 

What upside do you see in LaMarre?

[jorgenswest]

26?

Good golly, he's a top fifty prospect....

What upside do you see in LaMarre?

His upside is average defender, average base runner and professional at bats against left handed pitchers.