Twins confirm interest in signing pitchers Dallas Keuchel, Craig Kimbrel

[Vanimal46]

Did anyone really fool themselves into believing they were going to pony up and shell out real money. They are only interested in bargains.

Kind of... If not now, when will it ever be a good time to buy?

[lecroy24fan]

 

Kimbrel really feel apart last year. Maybe the time off will help him but nobody knows. That's why a one year deal for him works for me. I would also like to see another BP arm via trade. Keuchel could be good with the rest and Wes and I like getting a starter to add depth and cover for Pineda late season. Of course somehow landing a top starter via trade, now who wouldn't like that. These guys will need time to get up to speed but it's early so that works too.

 

From July 27th (blown save vs Twins) to the end of the season:

 

3-0, 10 SV, 19.1 IP, 4.66 ERA

 

I'm not sure that's worth what he got considering his rough postseason too.

 

 

[Shaitan]

 

Yeah, not cool that they let him get away.  If he truly was a "priority" then make it happen.

Contracts work both ways. Was there any indication, anywhere, that Kimbrel was ever interested in Minnesota? You can offer him dumptrucks of money, but if he doesn't want to play here that's his choice. Free agency isn't an auction.

 

[jorgenswest]

Contracts work both ways. Was there any indication, anywhere, that Kimbrel was ever interested in Minnesota? You can offer him dumptrucks of money, but if he doesn't want to play here that's his choice. Free agency isn't an auction.

I think they could have got him by going to 50 or so million or guaranteeing that 4th option year.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Contracts work both ways. Was there any indication, anywhere, that Kimbrel was ever interested in Minnesota? You can offer him dumptrucks of money, but if he doesn't want to play here that's his choice. Free agency isn't an auction.

 

I mean, sure, we could've offered him 100M and he said no....but that's not generally what happens.  It mostly IS an auction.

[yarnivek1972]

Depends on the terms for it to vest.

It’s almost always IP, appearances or games finished. At some threshold, the option vests. If he sucks, you stop giving him the ball. Option doesn’t vest.

[nicksaviking]

I’d have been happy to have Kimbrel in 2020 and 2021, but this team is winning and I wouldn’t count on him helping much in 2019. If this team wants help this year, they should be looking at pitchers who have actually pitched this year.

[Mike Sixel]

I’d have been happy to have Kimbrel in 2020 and 2021, but this team is winning and I wouldn’t count on him helping much in 2019. If this team wants help this year, they should be looking at pitchers who have actually pitched this year.

By the time teams are willing to trade, kimbrel will have pitched for at least a month.....

 

But, I guess it's better to give up prospects and money, rather than just money to get help.....

[DiscGolfer]

This is the second time the Cubs have out bid the Twins on a pitcher in recent years, How'd that first one work out for them so far?

[KirbyDome89]

I guess I missed the part where Theo Epstein was a poor PBO and the Cubs are a mismanaged organization....

 

Chicago outbidding MN for Darvish two years ago has nothing to do with the Kimbrel signing. This isn't some giant W for the Twins.....

[SwainZag]

 

I guess I missed the part where Theo Epstein was a poor PBO and the Cubs are a mismanaged organization....

 

Chicago outbidding MN for Darvish two years ago has nothing to do with the Kimbrel signing. This isn't some giant W for the Twins.....

 

It isn't some giant W for the Twins, but it's not a giant L either.  The guy hasn't pitched competitively in 8+ months, and he wasn't that good in the playoffs last year.  If the was THE only player the Twins could have added for the season, yeah I would count it as a loss, but there's still 7 weeks until the deadline.  Too much is being made of him not signing here, at least IMO.  Yes, I would have liked to see him in a Twins uniform, but there are other moves to be made over overpaying for Kimbrel...  

 

 

[KirbyDome89]

 

It isn't some giant W for the Twins, but it's not a giant L either.  The guy hasn't pitched competitively in 8+ months, and he wasn't that good in the playoffs last year.  If the was THE only player the Twins could have added for the season, yeah I would count it as a loss, but there's still 7 weeks until the deadline.  Too much is being made of him not signing here, at least IMO.  Yes, I would have liked to see him in a Twins uniform, but there are other moves to be made over overpaying for Kimbrel...  

It's obvious the Twins need to address the bullpen. They had the opportunity to add an elite arm, and as mentioned earlier in the thread, at the cost of only having to pay cash. Now they'll have to give up prospects and cash to fill that same void, as well as wait another 6-8 weeks. That's a loss no matter how you spin it. Does it spell doom and gloom for the remainder of the season? No, but it's certainly not a positive, and trying to rationalize that decision based on a signing Chicago made 2 years ago is ridiculous.

 

I put far more stock in 500+ regular season innings he's thrown than 10 not so great innings last postseason, but if SSS floats your boat he was pretty damn good in the 10 IPs over 5 previous postseasons before last year. 

[DiscGolfer]

Just because a player signs a big contract doesn't always mean he's worth it.  Falvey and Levine have made smart moves so far in their tenure and have been active at the trade deadline.  There are other moves to be made and other players to acquire

[SwainZag]

 

It's obvious the Twins need to address the bullpen. They had the opportunity to add an elite arm, and as mentioned earlier in the thread, at the cost of only having to pay cash. Now they'll have to give up prospects and cash to fill that same void, as well as wait another 6-8 weeks. That's a loss no matter how you spin it. Does it spell doom and gloom for the remainder of the season? No, but it's certainly not a positive, and trying to rationalize that decision based on a signing Chicago made 2 years ago is ridiculous.

 

I put far more stock in 500+ regular season innings he's thrown than 10 not so great innings last postseason, but if SSS floats your boat he was pretty damn good in the 10 IPs over 5 previous postseasons before last year. 

 

It's also obvious that 1 good start to the season doesn't mean the Twins have an unlimited payroll either.  If I am looking at it right, at $16M a season, he becomes by far the Twins highest paid player.  Also looking, there are a lot of guys who are going to need an extension.  Kimbrel doesn't equal a championship.  Paying 43M to a guy who is going to pitch 120 innings...at most... over the next 2.5 season, just seems insane to me. 

 

For me this has nothing to do with Darvish, as others have mentioned.  It comes down to paying a reliever a whole lot of money, for an extended period, I don't mind they passed.  Sure they missed out on a great arm, but there are others out there.  Go pay prospects and get Will Smith from SF, or Giles from TOR.  

[howeda7]

I think I'd rather give up a couple prospects for a reliever and have $30 million to spend elsewhere in 2020 and 2021. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

It's also obvious that 1 good start to the season doesn't mean the Twins have an unlimited payroll either.  If I am looking at it right, at $16M a season, he becomes by far the Twins highest paid player.  Also looking, there are a lot of guys who are going to need an extension.  Kimbrel doesn't equal a championship.  Paying 43M to a guy who is going to pitch 120 innings...at most... over the next 2.5 season, just seems insane to me. 

 

For me this has nothing to do with Darvish, as others have mentioned.  It comes down to paying a reliever a whole lot of money, for an extended period, I don't mind they passed.  Sure they missed out on a great arm, but there are others out there.  Go pay prospects and get Will Smith from SF, or Giles from TOR.  

They're something like 18M short of last year's payroll. Not that I buy the idea that extensions are the reason for throttling payroll, but if that's true, and MN really is hoarding $$ simply to pay Berrios, Buxton, ect. then why aren't the deals done? Why would the club continue to watch the price of retaining those guys climb with every game. It'd be horrific management. No, Kimbrel alone doesn't equal a championship, but solidifying the bullpen greatly increases the chances of winning one, and adding Kimbrel would've been one step in that direction. 

 

If you didn't want Kimbrel because of a less than stellar postseason, then why is Giles, who imploded in 17' is someone to target? If AAV is the real hold up then take solace in the fact that the Twins once again have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this season. They can afford to pay an elite reliever for 2.5 seasons.

[notoriousgod71]

 

Kind of... If not now, when will it ever be a good time to buy?

 

There have been countless times where it's a good time to buy but they don't.

[RatherBeGolfing]

 

"Twins are interested in signing them"

 

Let's see how interested. Prove it to me, front office

 

*Bumps own post*

[luckylager]

The fact that the Twins were pursuing Kimbrel demonstrates that they acknowledge there is a need for bullpen help. I can't imagine Mr. Falvey and Mr. Levine will be sitting on their hands as the trade deadline approaches. 

[Doomtints]

The story is the Cubs were the *only* team offering him multiple years and the Twins made him a "competitive" offer for the year.

 

The core of this team will be around for the next 2.5 years and I'm unaware of a better closer coming on the market this offseason.

 

*shrug*

[Doomtints]

 

Kimbrel really feel apart last year. Maybe the time off will help him but nobody knows. That's why a one year deal for him works for me. I would also like to see another BP arm via trade. Keuchel could be good with the rest and Wes and I like getting a starter to add depth and cover for Pineda late season. Of course somehow landing a top starter via trade, now who wouldn't like that. These guys will need time to get up to speed but it's early so that works too.

 

Almost all of the Twins pitchers are playing above their heads right now, probably because the position players are playing so dang well. I'm betting both of these pitchers would perform well if in a Twins uniform this year.

[Mike Sixel]

This is the second time the Cubs have out bid the Twins on a pitcher in recent years, How'd that first one work out for them so far?

 

such a tired argument. Clearly the Twins loved Darvish, or they wouldn't have made that large offer. The only way this argument makes sense is if you are arguing never to sign it year for expensive pitching.....

[Brock Beauchamp]

By the time teams are willing to trade, kimbrel will have pitched for at least a month.....

 

But, I guess it's better to give up prospects and money, rather than just money to get help.....

You’re ignoring how much less money it will take to get another reliever.

 

In 2020-2021, the difference between the cost of an acquired arm and Kimbrel is likely the price of a guy like Marwin Gonzalez, or close to it.

 

It’s still not optimal to give up prospects but prospect value needs to be part of the equation, too. Is Nick Gordon worth the ~$15m difference between two years of Kimbrel and two years of another reliever? It’s not an easy question to answer and that’s why evaluation is so important. A team like the Twins needs to get that answer right the majority of the time because both prospects and money matter equally.

 

Not that I’m suggesting the front office should trade Gordon for a reliever, he’s just an example.

[Mike Sixel]

You’re ignoring how much less money it will take to get another reliever.

 

In 2020-2021, the difference between the cost of an acquired arm and Kimbrel is likely the price of a guy like Marwin Gonzalez, or close to it.

 

It’s still not optimal to give up prospects but prospect value needs to be part of the equation, too. Is Nick Gordon worth the ~$15m difference between two years of Kimbrel and two years of another reliever? It’s not an easy question to answer and that’s why evaluation is so important. A team like the Twins needs to get that answer right the majority of the time because both prospects and money matter equally.

 

Not that I’m suggesting the front office should trade Gordon for a reliever, he’s just an example.

Given their pitching, they'll be in this same spot next year. This was predicted by nearly everyone here, and not one minor league player has progressed this year to fill this year, or next year. So, sure, they can sign two relief pitchers next year for the price of kimbrel. Odds are, they won't be as good as him.

[mendozaline]

Sign Keuchel to a 1 year deal and move Pineda to the pen. Then go get Giles (Tor) and Smith (SF). They could also try and get Stroman and Giles in the same package, although I think that would be a pretty large asking price from the Jays. 

[nicksaviking]

 

You’re ignoring how much less money it will take to get another reliever.

In 2020-2021, the difference between the cost of an acquired arm and Kimbrel is likely the price of a guy like Marwin Gonzalez, or close to it.

It’s still not optimal to give up prospects but prospect value needs to be part of the equation, too. Is Nick Gordon worth the ~$15m difference between two years of Kimbrel and two years of another reliever? It’s not an easy question to answer and that’s why evaluation is so important. A team like the Twins needs to get that answer right the majority of the time because both prospects and money matter equally.

Not that I’m suggesting the front office should trade Gordon for a reliever, he’s just an example.

 

For a team that's looking at things other than ERA, I think there may be a lot of good relievers available who are relatively affordable that might not get fans excited early but will show they were more than worthy of a trade in short order.

 

But I'm also cool with making an uncomfortable trade for a bigger named reliever too. Though I'm not sure if there are really any available outside of Giles, who I'm warming to, but not quite banging the drum for.

[Mike Sixel]

 

For a team that's looking at things other than ERA, I think there may be a lot of good relievers available who are relatively affordable that might not get fans excited early but will show they were more than worthy of a trade in short order.

 

But I'm also cool with making an uncomfortable trade for a bigger named reliever too. Though I'm not sure if there are really any available outside of Giles, who I'm warming to, but not quite banging the drum for.

 

there will be RPs available, will they pay the price? Will they outbid the other clubs? Will any of them be as good as Pressley?

[nicksaviking]

I'd guess most folks would agree the team should be targeting multiple bullpen upgrades, but they'll have to do it in a couple waves if they want to be proactive. I won't list all of the guys I want as I'm guessing many of them would initially turn some stomachs without lots of context, but it would be nice for the team to start working Seattle, Toronto, KC, Baltimore and SF now for immediate help, then wait out Pittsburgh, Washington, Cincinnati, AZ and Oakland until they waive the white flag.

[h2oface]

For nothing but money with a window wide open and a most blinding need........... I can't believe they didn't get it done and get Kimbrel. Trade away Pressly and fail to get Kimbrel. Create a glaring need and then have a solution with no compensation but money (and 3 years $45million is not even horribly strapped), and sleep on it. Mark me as very very disappointed. 

 

I still can't believe how short sited it was to trade Pressly for prospects instead of extending him.

 

update edit: Turns out our boys were not even runner up for Kimbrel, but the Rays were! The reported "interest in both Kimbrel and Keuchel" seems to be not that much.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/06/rays-were-reportedly-runners-up-for-craig-kimbrel.html

 

The Cubs were already in one luxuary tax limit, and may have pushed over the top limit, and the Rays are just not "ever" willing to spend. That just kinda shows how much of a bargain Kimbrel went for...... and we didn't even get in the game.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

until they waive the white flag.

When we can claim the white flag on waivers!