Kohl Stewart: An idea very few will like

[birddog]

Totally agree Twins should have stuck with Stewart longer. We have to find out what these young kids are made of and pulling them in the first sign of trouble does absolutely nothing.

 

Does anyone have a clue why Gonsalves has not yet had a shot in MLB? Bad character? Bad teammate? How, with his great stats, has he not yet pitched for the Twins?

[mikelink45]

The experiment with Kohl is fine, but why did they bypass Gonsalves and leave Romero in the minors.  This FO really confuses me. Many starters begin in the pen, it is a way to settle nerves and it is not as if we do not have room in the pen. 

[bighat]

 

I think Stewart looked pretty good. If we weren't playing for the World Series, I would have left him in longer. But, that's just me. It would be nice if the team could display just a touch of patience with young players.

 

I don't disagree....but it's kind of a Catch-22. By pulling Stewart early, the Twins are saying "if you nibble and issue walks, if you hit batters on an 0-2 count, you don't get to stay in the game".

 

If Stewart has learned anything in his two starts, it's that he should trust his stuff. If he doesn't, he's getting yanked. That may also be an important learning experience.

[Monkeypaws]

Berrios got beaten up his first time up too. Hopefully he learning on the job

[Rosterman]

There is nothing wrong with relief, especially if you have the potential for long relief. Stewart still needs to trust his stuff. Looks like he MIGHT get one more start, and by then we shall be closer to roster expansion, but...yes, try him in the bullpen. Stewart or Duffy in 2019? Or is Slegers also iin that mix.

 

The Twins drafted a whole bunch of relief arms around the Stewart signing in prior seasons and such. Look how many of those panned out. And often a starter does become a bullpen guy.

 

He just needs to trust his stuff.

Might he only be a shorttimer - say an Alex Wimmers or Adam Johnson or...dare I say...J.D. Durbin? You won't know until you try.

 

But look at the Twins starters going into 2019: Berrios, Gibson, Odorizzi, Mehia, Romero then we have Goncalves, Littell, Pineda. Stewart is now on the roster. Thorpe will probably be ready for consideration sometime in 2019. We still have Slegers and Chase de Jong (both could be gone or considered for relief...right now, chance are they stay on the 40-man for depth). Tyler Wells is a long shot for getting a 40-man and being ready sometime in 2019. Add in a couple of arms from recent trades, the next big crop of guys will be coming forward in 2020. So above is our choices for rebuilding time...without a free agent signing. A nice mix...if they are hungry enough. Nice that Stewart IS getting his feet wet. He iisn't a dominant-type guy yet, but he could become a solid starter given time and work, still.

 

Now that Ervin is on the dl, we will need to see Goncalves. And hopefully Littell will also see a September advancement and get some innings. In some ways would like to see a six-man rotation happen. Maybe some of those minor league starts, will a bullpen guy pitches the first inning before turning to a short start of four or five innings at most. The Twins DO have arms that they need to see and maje some decisions on.

 

Free Jack Curtiss!

 

 

[Vanimal46]

Y'all are paying more attention than me. I'm not sure where the upside is with him if he can't generate swinging strikes.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Y'all are paying more attention than me. I'm not sure where the upside is with him if he can't generate swinging strikes.

yup, I think these couple starts are what the FO needs to determine if they should sneak him through waivers again.

[Jham]

I'm pleasantly surprised as to Kohl Stewart's stuff. I can see how he's out performed his peripherals at each level.

 

But seriously. He's a relief pitcher. Concentrating for an inning is much easier than 6 or 7. Probably needs to use the 4 seamer up high more, like May and Gibby, to stay on schedule

[Otto von Ballpark]

Y'all are paying more attention than me. I'm not sure where the upside is with him if he can't generate swinging strikes.

What's the alternative? Discussing Vikings preseason games? Or worse...

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Y'all are paying more attention than me. I'm not sure where the upside is with him if he can't generate swinging strikes.

 

He has incredible downward movement on his fastball that will induce weak contact ground balls. 

 

I believe it can also generate more swings and misses if he can command it better. It'll be one of those pitches that will look in the zone and end up out of the zone. 

 

He should be able to mix a straight 4 seem that doesn't break with that pitch to catch batters off guard and mix his slider with it for a different type of break and a change up is always possible for those who work at it.  

 

I think his fastball is the type of pitch that can enhance 3 more pitches but he has to locate it better.

 

Yesterday he was trying to hit corners and the pitch was coming in out of the zone and breaking further out of the zone and that ain't gonna fool anyone in the major leagues.  

 

He just doesn't know what he is doing yet. He hasn't had enough success in the minor leagues to feel confident. He knows he has to impress. He's afraid of grooving something so he tried to work the edges and he isn't ready for that. 

 

More experience will lead to less nerves, less nerves will lead to consistent mechanics, which will lead to better command. Better command will lead to better confidence and results. 

 

It all hangs off that fastball. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vanimal46]

He has incredible downward movement on his fastball that will induce weak contact ground balls.

 

I believe it can also generate more swings and misses if he can command it better. It'll be one of those pitches that will look in the zone and end up out of the zone.

 

He should be able to mix a straight 4 seem that doesn't break with that pitch to catch batters off guard and mix his slider with it for a different type of break and a change up is always possible for those who work at it.

 

I think his fastball is the type of pitch that can enhance 3 more pitches but he has to locate it better.

 

Yesterday he was trying to hit corners and the pitch was coming in out of the zone and breaking further out of the zone and that ain't gonna fool anyone in the major leagues.

 

He just doesn't know what he is doing yet. He hasn't had enough success in the minor leagues to feel confident. He knows he has to impress. He's afraid of grooving something so he tried to work the edges and he isn't ready for that.

 

More experience will lead to less nerves, less nerves will lead to consistent mechanics, which will lead to better command. Better command will lead to better confidence and results.

 

It all hangs off that fastball.

So he's a sinker ball pitcher with suspect command. There could be upside as a reliever, or a Gibby-like transformation where he ditches the sinker all together.

[Nine of twelve]

There's a logistical problem with this idea. At this moment we already have a 9-man bullpen with Busenitz up and Erv on the DL. We would have to send out two relievers and find two starters. One starter is Gonsalves as of tomorrow and we would need to bring someone else up to start on Thursday. I said on another thread that I think Stewart will go down tomorrow to make room for Gonsalves, then a reliever will be sent out to make room for a minor league call-up to start on Thursday. When the rosters expand next month then this might be a good thing to consider.

[Doomtints]

 

I felt bad for the kid. His major league career just hasn't started very well and it sure looked like a severe case of nerves. 

 

However... I think he has good stuff. His fastball has real good movement and he has a decent breaking pitch that could be the foundation of an alright pitcher. 

 

1. I don't think he should get another major league start this season. 

2. Although I'd like to see the team keep trying to develop him as a starter.  

3. I also don't think he should be sent down. 

 

I'd like him to stay with the club and work out of the bullpen for the remainder of 2018 (Low Leverage). Give him some time hanging in the major league environment and see if he can settle those nerves a little. 

 

Next Year... He can start in Rochester as a starter and keep working on things. We got some options to use. 

 

For now... Call up Gonsalves or Romero to take his place in the rotation. 

 

Of course, someone in the bullpen will have to be traded, sent down, placed on the DL or released to accommodate Stewart hanging around.

 

Crazy I know, I just want to see how he looks if he could just settle down a little and that might take some acclimation time. 

 

Nothing wrong with any of this at all.

[h2oface]

 

With the skill level in baseball nowdays, to be fully developed by 23 is rare, hence 23 is young.  If you are not developed by 28, you are getting on the old side.

Other thaan Sherzer which pitcher has performed up to their 3 or more year contract for more than half of it?

 

I don't really know the answer to your question, and am too lazy to research it. Most pitchers not, but Sale, Kershaw, and Greinke mostly, come to mind.

 

Don't tell the Braves that 23 is young......

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/08/braves-promote-bryse-wilson-pitching-prospect.html

Remarkably, Wilson will join Mike Soroka, Kolby Allard and Ronald Acuna as prospects to debut in Atlanta before their 20th birthday this season. He draws praise for a fastball that sits 93-95 mph and can touch 97 mph with plenty of sink, as well as a slider and changeup that each have average or better potential.

 

....but only 3 of them are pitchers.....

 

 

[old nurse]

 

I don't really know the answer to your question, and am too lazy to research it. Most pitchers not, but Sale, Kershaw, and Greinke mostly, come to mind.

 

Don't tell the Braves that 23 is young......

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/08/braves-promote-bryse-wilson-pitching-prospect.html

Remarkably, Wilson will join Mike Soroka, Kolby Allard and Ronald Acuna as prospects to debut in Atlanta before their 20th birthday this season. He draws praise for a fastball that sits 93-95 mph and can touch 97 mph with plenty of sink, as well as a slider and changeup that each have average or better potential.

 

....but only 3 of them are pitchers.....

I meant to specify free agent contracts. Kershaw and Sale were not free agents . So that leaves 2 free agent pitchers playing up to contract

 

That the Braves have players under 20 is good for them. It does not mean they think 23 is old. The number of players hitting free agency before 29 is very small.  A debut does not equate to success. Soroka already has a shoulder injury. Perhaps there is a reason why other teams don't overwork young pitchers

[h2oface]

 

I meant to specify free agent contracts. Kershaw and Sale were not free agents . So that leaves 2 free agent pitchers playing up to contract

 

That the Braves have players under 20 is good for them. It does not mean they think 23 is old. The number of players hitting free agency before 29 is very small.  A debut does not equate to success. Soroka already has a shoulder injury. Perhaps there is a reason why other teams don't overwork young pitchers

 

There are probably more. I didn't even try to find any other than off the top of my head. But I agree, if you sign someone to the long contract, free agent or extension, you will probably live to regret it.

 

It seems that age has nothing to do with shoulder/elbow/arm injuries, as we see it is an epidemic in the sport, regardless of age. Or whether they are pitching in the minors or the majors. It seems pitching at all is the main culprit. I just feel talent should never be held back just because of age..... whether older or younger. We can say someone is not ready, but if they don't get the opportunity, one really doesn't know. 

 

I wonder how baseball ever survived with a 4 man rotation for so long.

[The Wise One]

 

There are probably more. I didn't even try to find any other than off the top of my head. But I agree, if you sign someone to the long contract, free agent or extension, you will probably live to regret it.

 

It seems that age has nothing to do with shoulder/elbow/arm injuries, as we see it is an epidemic in the sport, regardless of age. Or whether they are pitching in the minors or the majors. It seems pitching at all is the main culprit. I just feel talent should never be held back just because of age..... whether older or younger. We can say someone is not ready, but if they don't get the opportunity, one really doesn't know. 

 

I wonder how baseball ever survived with a 4 man rotation for so long.

there was a time when a 90 mph fastball was considered fast. That ought to be your first clue

[Vanimal46]

It seems that age has nothing to do with shoulder/elbow/arm injuries, as we see it is an epidemic in the sport, regardless of age. Or whether they are pitching in the minors or the majors. It seems pitching at all is the main culprit. I just feel talent should never be held back just because of age..... whether older or younger. We can say someone is not ready, but if they don't get the opportunity, one really doesn't know.

 

I wonder how baseball ever survived with a 4 man rotation for so long.

It has everything to do with pitchers throwing as hard as they physically can every pitch.

[h2oface]

 

there was a time when a 90 mph fastball was considered fast. That ought to be your first clue

 

Well, that was the "guess". The first radar guns weren't used until the 60's for baseball. You can say the 90 mph thing is fact, but it is unsupported with actual evidence. The mound was also 15 inches high, (and the Dodgers in particular were notorious for pushing that limit). Some doctors think it is the arm angle from the lower mound. And the velocity. No one really knows how fast the pitchers were before they could be measured more accurately. Thanks for the clueditude. I never would have considered the obvious without your help.

 

Plus, the most successful pitchers don't throw it as hard as they physically can every pitch. The command and control usually comes from backing off a bit to get movement. How many times have we heard "the pitcher was over amped, and the ball lost it's movement. Throwing the ball hard certainly is a part of it.

[diehardtwinsfan]

While I woudln't be surprised if Stewart ended up in the pen, he's had 2 starts, and he's what, 23? 

 

I think there needs to be some time there before that call is made. 

[jmlease1]

Now's the perfect time to run Stewart out there a few more times before the end of the season and see how he does. he may not be ready for a spot, but a little time with the big club could be good for his development as he gets an understanding of what he needs to do to be successful. Any pitcher that can induce weak contact and loads of groundballs is worth keeping an eye on and trying to develop as a starter. And if a guy is struggling with command/control, jumping into a relief role isn't going to help that unless you're only throwing him into low leverage situations...and how much advantage is that?

 

Frankly, I'd be fine with odorizzi (or even gibson) coming down with that fabled "strained back" injury in september to let guys like Gonsalves & Stewart be assured of a few more starts to see what they've got. We kinda know who the vets are at this point, so if they miss a turn or two at the end of the season, no big deal.

[h2oface]

It will surprise me if this ill-fated 4th overall pick makes it anywhere but in Japan or Korea, but I hope they use this last 5-6 weeks to give him a chance, and either the unexpected happens, or he can move on to his future. It is unusual for a pitcher who is mediocre in the minors to all of the sudden turn that corner at the highest level of competition, but hey, maybe Kohl Stewart will be the rare exception. His roster spot needs to be earned, now.

 

And, he can always go back to college and be that adult quarterback playing against the older boys, like Chris Weinke, who won his Heisman on that level playing field at the age of 28.